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TheSonOfAbbadon
09-06-2005, 16:47
Are the Sons Of Malice a chaos CSM legion, or are they a renegade chapter that allies neither with the imperium or with chaos?

LoerdofallJoy
09-06-2005, 17:26
As I recall the Sons of Malice are followers of the now defunct Malal. Or if not they are a definate nod in that direction.

As such, I'd say they hate Chaos as much as the Imperium, and hate the Imperium as much as Chaos. In fact they just hate everyone.

Malal, in casee you were wondering is the now unofficial 5th Chaos God - can't remember his exact title, but he's for Disorder generally and will fight any order (Chaotic or not) that he finds.

Hope this helps,

LoaJ

Inquisitor Samos
09-06-2005, 17:27
They're a renegade chapter that turned on the Imperium and was declared Perdita.

During the 13th Black Crusade their homeworld, Scelus, was the site of an incursion by Abaddon's forces, so it appears they sided with Chaos. (The system was taken by as-yet-unidentified loyal Imperial Space Marine forces during the 13th Black Crusade, so the Sons of Malice effectively lost their homeworld, and probably got drubbed pretty good in the process......)

Inquis. Jaeger
09-06-2005, 18:03
They are renegades. During the victory celebrations for their campaign in the rebellious Cilix system, which, due to the traditions of their feral homeworld, involved much blood ceremonies/bloodthirsty celebrations including blood-drinking etc, they were witnessed by Inquisitor Pietas, who was revolted by what she saw as cannabilistic rituals.

She called in a strike force of Soritas Celestians to purge what she viewed as heretics. They drop-podded in and were promptly ripped apart by the maniacs, who had whipped themselves up into a frenzy of animalistic barbarity over the course of their celebrations. Kathal, the Captain of the 1st Company, then proceeded to ritually sacrifice the Inquisitor, which earned them excommunication.

They fled to the Eye of Terror, where they basically fight everyone.

TheSonOfAbbadon
09-06-2005, 19:23
Ah, thanks, I couldn't remember whether they were chaos or renegade, because I knew they fought everyone when Malal was still canon, but I didn't know whether they were now chaos or renegade.

MidnightResistance
09-06-2005, 20:57
Kathal, the Captain of the 1st Company, then proceeded to ritually sacrifice the Inquisitor, which earned them excommunication.

That'll learn em :evilgrin:

Inquis. Jaeger
09-06-2005, 22:17
Ah, thanks, I couldn't remember whether they were chaos or renegade, because I knew they fought everyone when Malal was still canon, but I didn't know whether they were now chaos or renegade.

Yeah, this was drawn from the recent IA: Renegades article. I think GW re-drew the fluff to be able to accomodate a Sons of Malice force free of Malal.

It is mentioned elsewhere that the reason for these bloodthirsty rituals was their homeworld's feral and barbaric method of worshipping the Emperor.

TheSonOfAbbadon
09-06-2005, 22:25
Strange thing is, some Blood Angels successor chapters, most noteably the Fleshtearers, partake in similar blood sacrifices.

Hell, the Fleshtearers control their planet's population picking out the strongest to be marines, and killing loads others to feed the marines.

athamas
09-06-2005, 23:05
Malal was the chaos god of choas's self destructive nature, he was olso the 3rd chaos god mentiond, after khrone and nurgle!


i like to think that the ons of malice worship him, as they share his coulous (half black, half white) and are known to fight everyone!

Typheron
09-06-2005, 23:26
Strange thing is, some Blood Angels successor chapters, most noteably the Fleshtearers, partake in similar blood sacrifices.

Hell, the Fleshtearers control their planet's population picking out the strongest to be marines, and killing loads others to feed the marines.

i think it was the sacraficing of the inquisitor and the killing of his force that pushed thing too far, also BAs and the sucessors tend to hide such bloodletting better than the sons of malace did.

Ass Goblin
09-06-2005, 23:46
Like not killing an Inquisitor. That's a big no-no if you don't want a nice shiny Exterminatus on your behind. But also the Fleshtears have had heaps of sanctions and other things done to them to keep them on the Imperial side.

Randallw
10-06-2005, 04:42
Hey I'm all for eating the hearts of your enemies to get their courage

"Hmm, their rich tasty courage" :D

but where is the piece of information claiming the Fleshtearers take people from their homeworld to feed the marines?

Delicious Soy
10-06-2005, 04:45
Like not killing an Inquisitor. That's a big no-no if you don't want a nice shiny Exterminatus on your behind. But also the Fleshtears have had heaps of sanctions and other things done to them to keep them on the Imperial side.
Or cover it up better like the Space Wolves. Publicly sacrificing one was not the best of ideas. Was their fluff change or merely expanded? Before the IA: Renegades article, the Sons of Malice was little more than a colour scheme and a Homeworld near the Eye of Terror.

TheSonOfAbbadon
10-06-2005, 08:58
i like to think that the ons of malice worship him, as they share his coulous (half black, half white) and are known to fight everyone!

They don't worship Malal! Malal isn't in the fluff anymore. They worshipped Malal when they were called 'The Sons Of Malal'.

M@L@L
12-06-2005, 23:52
I'm currently building a SOM army which I'm themeing only subtley towards Malal. Although the chapter badge (which I've custom done due to the painted model in the chaos dex not showing one) does bare many similarities to Malals mark. I've gone for Furious charge for every model in the force to represent their hate fuelled rage. Might even throw a Dreadaxe in the mix too.:D

sigur
13-06-2005, 00:06
@M@L@L (I know that this looks odd): What's the mark of Malal? I can't remember seeing it anywhere since I only have 2nd edition stuff but nothing from RT.

mostholycerebus
13-06-2005, 03:53
Strange thing is, some Blood Angels successor chapters, most noteably the Fleshtearers, partake in similar blood sacrifices.

Hell, the Fleshtearers control their planet's population picking out the strongest to be marines, and killing loads others to feed the marines.

I don't think any Marine player would be surprised if FT's were declared Excomunicated either. They really walk the edge between BA and Khorne.

grizzly ruin
13-06-2005, 05:24
@M@L@L (I know that this looks odd): What's the mark of Malal? I can't remember seeing it anywhere since I only have 2nd edition stuff but nothing from RT.

I remember something about a white and black skull, just like the paint job on the Sons of Malice.

athamas
13-06-2005, 08:51
yeah its a half black, half white skull!

he was mentioned before slanesh and tznetch!

charlie_c67
13-06-2005, 10:12
Bit like that Ad-mech skull really.....
And I've no idea where the rumour that the fleshtearers eat the planets population comes from :wtf: there's a tower filled with marines that have succumbed and cry out for human flesh, bit like on baal (tower of amaro?), but no evidence they eat them.

athamas
13-06-2005, 10:33
there is refference to the population near blood angel outposts dissapearing...

as a sucsessor chater, i would expect the same!

charlie_c67
13-06-2005, 11:40
It also suggests it could be the work of cultists trying to discredit the BA's. Last time I checked though, vampires didn't eat the dead, just drain them. Though we all know that what vampires really desire is coffee!!

Rövhalt
13-06-2005, 12:00
Wasn't Malal dropped 'cause of the guy who had rights to him left GW? I vaguely remember a similar discussion on the old portent about a God of Disorder in a fantasy post.
Was that Malal or am I so far off on the galaxy edge that my nuts are freezing in darkness?

charlie_c67
13-06-2005, 12:19
No you've got it spot on.

Rövhalt
13-06-2005, 12:28
He he, me be great! Or not... depends on how you see things. I like the fact that that Witch Hunter thought that some flying women in power suits could defeat some crazed super humans bred for war. Not the best of ideas constructed in the 41:st millenium...

Brother Othorio
13-06-2005, 12:37
then again, there is the believed Blood Angels successor known as the Flesh Eaters..

TheSonOfAbbadon
14-06-2005, 20:11
The Flesh Tearers were orginally created to try and get the black rage-thing out of the gene seed. They failed, and made many marines who actually needed human blood to survive. They didn't kill them because that would have been a waste.

DantesInferno
15-06-2005, 00:17
The Flesh Tearers were orginally created to try and get the black rage-thing out of the gene seed. They failed, and made many marines who actually needed human blood to survive. They didn't kill them because that would have been a waste.

Nope, the Flesh Tearers were created in the Second Founding, almost immediately after the Heresy, before the gene-seed flaw of the Black Rage, resulting from the death of Sanguinius, had become apparent. The Rage has become more uncontrollable for the FT's than their parent chapter the BA's, since they dropped the practice of blood transfusions to new recruits when they split from the Legion after the Heresy. This has caused their gene-seed to mutate and degenerate at an ever-increasing rate.

You might be thinking of the Lamenters, a Cursed Founding chapter created with the goal of removing the Black Rage from the otherwise excellent Sanguinius gene-seed. This was successful, as the Lamenters are not afflicted by the Rage or the Thirst, but had the unfortunate side-effect of causing the Lamenters to be incredibly unlucky.

malika
15-06-2005, 02:03
I dont get how that works...I mean I can understand the whole rage thing being genetic. I mean psychological status is determined by genes, but how is bad luck genetical?

Xisor
15-06-2005, 02:14
It could also be viewed as 'forces unknown conspiring against them'. Personally it's very '40k' to think that 'bad luck' was a symptom of tampering with Emperor-pioneered genetics. It could in fact *be* the Emperor exerting His Will on the Imperium by ensuring that a potentially worse defect was not exposed through the Lamenters tampered seed.

'Bad Luck' is essentially a very possible thing in 40k terms. Hence the entire 'cursed founding' and the insidious effects of chaos. Is this person simply prone to disease genetically or is he influenced by nurgle? Both are possibile...

Xisor

Delicious Soy
15-06-2005, 13:32
I dont get how that works...I mean I can understand the whole rage thing being genetic. I mean psychological status is determined by genes, but how is bad luck genetical?Curses, earning the attentions of the chaos gods or othe minor dieties, 40k isn't bound entirely in science. The BA curse is largely due to the pstychic death cry of Sanguinius reaching across the warp IIRC

athamas
15-06-2005, 13:57
yep, when a BA enters the black rage, he belives he is Sanguinius, and must go on a killing spree, killing lots of enemies, and shruging off wounds that would kill a normal marine!

most tend to die in battle, as it is seen honourable!

a few unlucky ones survive, and are held captive on the BA homeworld!

Captain Cortez
15-06-2005, 18:46
I heard the Executioners Space Marines were a Blood Angel succesor as is the Lamenter. The Executioners have the same shoulder pad squad markings that is why.

If this is the case did the Blood Angel have two experiments quiling the Sanquin strain?

charlie_c67
16-06-2005, 11:12
Don't believe there is any official fluff that backs that theory up. It has been mooted before, but I believe it was proven to be a fan based story.

sigur
16-06-2005, 14:52
What is your source of the Lamenters being a BA successor chapter? I thought that this was only an assumption?

charlie_c67
16-06-2005, 15:18
No, it's always been a known fact that the lamentors were an attempt to "breed out" the curse of sanguinus. Interesting when you think that the majority of chapter created after the Second founding use the genestocks stored on Mars/Terra. You'd have thought there would've been more mixing of stock.

Captain Cortez
16-06-2005, 19:43
Good to hear from you again Charlie. Is the Badab group offialy dead? I haven't seen anyone there for weeks.

The Lamenters fluff about the Blood Angel thing is in the Cursed founding CA. I was just assuming the Executioners were a Blood Angels because of old squad markings.

charlie_c67
17-06-2005, 10:03
Commonly put but there's not been much if any supporting evidence. One idea was that they were descended from the White Scars or Raven Guard, but AFAIK it's fairly open.

As for Badab, I dunno where everyone's gone! Captain Brown's running a campaign in Canada but everyone else seems to have clammed up. I might have to put the link back in my sig. Am currently writing another story to stick up there, lil longer than the others but it's coming! Also gotta put up some pics of my Space Sharks at some point.

malika
17-06-2005, 10:55
I have been quite busy with other projects (just check my signatures) and the fact that Bolter&Chainsword made their own version of the whole Badab War and simply nicked/ignored us kind of put me down :cheese:

But yeah...we could always work some more on that :D

charlie_c67
17-06-2005, 11:01
Who knows. Perhaps with representitives from some gaming groups we could stage an on-line re-creation of the war ;) Just not with so many flaming meatgrinders as we were cursed with during the weekend. (3 rounds of the bloody thing!)

Brother Othorio
17-06-2005, 13:45
I heard the Executioners Space Marines were a Blood Angel succesor as is the Lamenter. The Executioners have the same shoulder pad squad markings that is why.


eh? Executioners dont use squad markings on their shoulderpads, the squad type is denoted by the colour of the shoulderpad