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Tiller5
20-02-2013, 14:34
Hi all, I'm looking to build an army centred around Garviel Loken's band of survivors on Isstvan III and was wondering if Terminator armour was restricted to the Justaerin elite or not. I like to build my armies based on the background rather than powerful choices and, whilst Terminators are always handy in a fight, I would not want to include them if they were only employed by the traitor forces.

If I have missed any glaring references (I have failed to find anything specific in Betrayal, and my memory of the first Horus Heresy novels is patchy at best!), I apologise in advance, and thank you for your help!

Hengist
20-02-2013, 15:45
My inference has always been that the Justaerin were not the only TDA-equipped Sons of Horus - if memory serves Luc Sedirae, captain of the 13th as described as wearing TDA. Certainly the FW book allows the Sons of Horus to field both Justaerin and 'ordinary' terminators, so I'd presume there's no compelling reason for the Istvaan loyalists to not field TDA.

prowla
21-02-2013, 11:47
Yep, I think every legion got TDA in far greater quantities than just for a single elite company like the Justaerin. Also, many of the loyalists were veterans, so probably there would have been some who were part of the terminator units.

sheppe
21-02-2013, 14:15
Loken's sergeant that gets possessed in Horus Rising wears TDA iirc.

Also don't forget that Horus was the bees knees before he went evil, so got whatever he wanted - so it stands to reason he would have had terminator armour for those outside the Justaerin whereas other legions would have many at all.

Khorneguy
21-02-2013, 15:41
Betrayal states that there was a lot of Terminator armour in the Sons fo Horus, being the Warmasters legion. They were also one of the first to use it. it'ds implied in the HH novels that every company has a few squads of Terminators, but it was most common in the 1st Company.

IMO, the best thing to to in a 'Istvann Resistance' army, is to limit yourself to one or two squada max, as it's hard to maintain over long periods of time and are slower than nomral, so were less likely to have made it into cover before the virus bombardment. Also, the survivors held out mainly through running a hit and run campaign against the traitors, so TDA isn't as suited to that style of warfare as normal Astartes battle plate

baphomael
22-02-2013, 22:24
Yea the Betrayel book illustrates that one of the differences between post heresy codex reforms and the Legion structure is that certain assets, like recon "scouts" and terminator veterans where not limited to a specific company - various companies had access to such units.

Incidently, this accounts for why fw have cataphractii painted in sea green as well as the black justaerin.


Also the "on paper" legion structure was wider, with more operational levels - legion, chapter, battalion, company etc. Although I believe the Sons simplified it and stripped down the number to focus mainly on companies.... but dont quote me on that.

Inquisitor Engel
22-02-2013, 23:54
Although I believe the Sons simplified it and stripped down the number to focus mainly on companies.... but dont quote me on that.

You're correct.

I imagine it's going to be a trend among many of the Legions. I can't think of many off the top of my head who mention the usage of the larger Legion structures other than Ultramarines, Word Bearers and Iron Warriors. I suppose Iron Hands have Brotherhoods but I can't recall if they were just another name for company...

The Night Lords aren't split into Grand Companies under the Kyroptera until they lose the Thramas Crusade to the Dark Angels (who are cheating, it should be said) though the fact that it's said so matter-of-factly probably means Sevatar got the idea from somewhere....

Vaulkhar
25-02-2013, 02:58
Possibly the Death Guard, who Morty split into 7 Grand Companies, each having a target strength of 70,000 Marines (and that should have had the big E going 'erm...' right there). Or he'd thought about it beforehand.