PDA

View Full Version : So I finally read Raven's Flight...



Bigbot
21-02-2013, 21:43
Late to the party, it's been out for a while in different forms but I finally got around to it.

Now to start, Deliverence lost was...ok, not great humanised the primarch a bit, but hated that it wasn't his own hubris that destroyed the new marines and instead alpha legion with their stealth gimmick of the week (though they still came off better than the short story about Omegon in the primarchs)

but Raven's flight? ok night set up...dreams bad omens, I like how Corax is developing survival on Istvaan and we even get him cutting loose a bit. I even see how the remaining raven guard at the raven spire are sitting around in slipper on comfy sofas....wait

Honestly, I had to reread that page again, over and over. Are we now expected to believe that mariens wear slippers and have sofas that don't even fit a marine IN THEIR OWN TOWER?!?!?!?!?

Yeh it's a tiny quibble but it just seemed to put the whole story out as a result.

Inquisitor Engel
22-02-2013, 17:45
(though they still came off better than the short story about Omegon in the primarchs)

Here I must disagree with you. The A-Team The Serpent Beneath is probably one of the best HH short stories out there.

Londinium
22-02-2013, 18:41
Now to start, Deliverence lost was...ok, not great humanised the primarch a bit, but hated that it wasn't his own hubris that destroyed the new marines and instead alpha legion with their stealth gimmick of the week (though they still came off better than the short story about Omegon in the primarchs)


Yeah that's one of the retcons in the HH I hate the most, it totally destroyed Corax's character and turned him into something much less interesting just to give the Alpha Legion yet another thing to do. If you didn't know better you'd think the Alpha Legion were behind practically everything that goes wrong in the Imperium and that they are practically infallible, it's getting tired and boring. That they had to sacrifice one of the more interesting characters in order to shoehorn this Alpha Legion plotline in was even more galling.

Excessus
23-02-2013, 11:23
Seriously, stop it with clanking down on the Alpha Legion! Yes, they do a lot of undercover work! No, they most definitely are not behind every single thing that goes wrong in the imperium! No, they are not infallible!

You are suggesting that we have a legion that specializes in undercover work and black ops...aaaand let them do...nothing? Yeah, great idea, let's go with that!

Londinium
23-02-2013, 11:57
Seriously, stop it with clanking down on the Alpha Legion! Yes, they do a lot of undercover work! No, they most definitely are not behind every single thing that goes wrong in the imperium! No, they are not infallible!

You are suggesting that we have a legion that specializes in undercover work and black ops...aaaand let them do...nothing? Yeah, great idea, let's go with that!

No I'm suggesting don't ruin one of the more interesting Primarch stories by shoehorning in the Alpha Legion when you can invent new stories to show what the Alpha Legion are up to and how OMGZLOLUBER! they are.

Lord-Caerolion
23-02-2013, 13:43
I've got to agree with Londinium here. The story used to be about the Raven Guard becoming lost in their desire for vengeance, and nearly destroying their Legion in the process. Corax was so desperate to strike back that he used forbidden technologies and almost completely ruined their geneseed. Now, the flaws of Corax have no bearing in the story whatsoever. The book would have ended with the Raven Guard having Super-Astartes at no cost if the Alpha Legion hadn't shown up. It also makes no sense as to why this process wasn't already being used. It creates Astartes in a fraction of the time, with no drawbacks. Why isn't its use standard procedure?
I much prefer the old sequence of events, even though I have nothing against the super-sneaky Alpha Legion. I just want the Alpha Legion to be kept from ruining a previously great character arc. If they wanted to include the Alpha Legion, they could have had almost the same thing happen, but have the Raven Guard ruin the process themselves, as they'd originally done. What was originally an amazing piece of gene-tech is made next to worthless by Corax accelerating the process far more than it should, and while the Alpha Legion still get to take the tech, the story keeps the fall from grace that Corax once had. Now, in Deliverance Lost, Corax does nothing wrong.

Personally, I hope they do a follow-up story, where it's found that the gene-tech had been tainted by the hot-housing long before the Alpha Legion got to it. It's not as tragic when the loss isn't unknowingly self-inflicted.

jareddm3
23-02-2013, 15:43
No I'm suggesting don't ruin one of the more interesting Primarch stories by shoehorning in the Alpha Legion when you can invent new stories to show what the Alpha Legion are up to and how OMGZLOLUBER! they are.
But then you get all the people complaining, "They're making stuff up just to keep milking the story!" :P

While I agree that using the Alpha Legion as the catalyst for the Raven Guard's downfall wasn't really that great of an idea, I haven't given up hope. It's possible that the procedure really is flawed and when the Alpha Legion attempt to use it themselves on a much larger scale, those flaws manifest. It might even end up tying in to the fracturing of the Alpha Legion later in the heresy.

Lord-Caerolion
23-02-2013, 22:20
That's not the problem though. I don't give a damn whether it comes back to bite the Alpha Legion in the ass, I care that the story was originally about Corax being so blinded by rage that he almost destroys his Legion in a desperate attempt to strike back at the traitors, but now Corax does nothing wrong. If the Alpha Legion hadn't shown up, Corax would have brought the Raven Guard back to full strength and would be kicking major Traitor butt, with no consequences whatsoever. Sure, Corax is still overtaken by rage, but that rage has no impact on what happens in the story.

I'd much rather they make up new events, rather than fundamentally change existing ones.

Azulthar
24-02-2013, 08:38
Yeah. The problem isn't that Alpha Legion was responsible, the problem is that Corax wasn't responsible.

I agree that it was one of the worst retcons. Takes the tragedy right out.

Madmongo
25-02-2013, 14:11
It does kind of make Corax's famed last words kind of pointless as well...

I love the alpha legion but the great story of a primarch destroying his own legion through rage (sans angron) is now lost.

FerociousBeast
25-02-2013, 21:14
The other dumbest thing about Deliverance Lost is the attempt to make Corvus Corax's name something OTHER than what it so obviously is, the scientific name of a raven. It would be like trying to say that Ferrus Manus actually means He Who Kills Dragons or Sanguinius actually means someone who sang a lot in his youth.

ChrisMurray
28-02-2013, 10:39
It's been a long time since I read this and my memory is a bit hazy, but although the AL attacked I don't remember the Corax finding out it was the AL that tampered with the geneseed, I thought that he still thought it was a mistake he and the RG made, so the original idea still exists.

Lord-Caerolion
28-02-2013, 11:31
That doesn't exactly make it better, ChrisMurray. The fact still remains that Corax had nothing to do with the near destruction of the Legion. The moral lesson that it had is entirely removed. "Fall entirely into blinding rage so that you don't give a damn about anything but vengeance and... stuff actually turns out surprisingly well, it seems".

jareddm3
28-02-2013, 15:56
Except if he hadn't been so focused on its success, he might've been able to stop the AL's plot.

Londinium
28-02-2013, 19:20
That doesn't exactly make it better, ChrisMurray. The fact still remains that Corax had nothing to do with the near destruction of the Legion. The moral lesson that it had is entirely removed. "Fall entirely into blinding rage so that you don't give a damn about anything but vengeance and... stuff actually turns out surprisingly well, it seems".

Yup, doesn't matter whether Corax doesn't know, it undermines the whole thing about someone being blinded by rage into doing hideous things and then having to face up to it (or in Corax's case facing up to it and the result destroying him). Now Corax wasn't blinded by rage into doing something very questionable behind the Emperor's back (hell nigh on heretical through a 40k mindset).