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B-Ravens 52
03-03-2013, 20:21
Hi seers,

i was just reading the necron codex and the necrons were orders to sleep for 65 million years and are only now awakening... With technology (guass) so advanced no other race has yet to master (monocular destruction)

this then begs the question... 65 million years and the IG have only just master the use of basic laser weaponry (lasgun) can you imagine how powerful the necrons must have been..? They would of been our gods... Maybe mythology is not ar off..!

xerxeshavelock
03-03-2013, 20:32
Apparently the alarm was set to 60 million, but they just had to hit that snooze button...

B-Ravens 52
03-03-2013, 20:35
Yea but they had to have the guass weapons before the sleep right, so when the IG were still playing with sticks and stones trying to work out how to make fire the necrons were playing my monocular and nano-tech... How scary is that?

xerxeshavelock
03-03-2013, 20:38
Do you suggest there were Cave-guardsmen?

B-Ravens 52
03-03-2013, 20:39
The human race started somewhere... (Enter god... Stage left)

but it begs the question... Why did the necrons not just kill/enslave everyone and rule the world while they had the chance?

xerxeshavelock
03-03-2013, 20:43
Cos 65 million years ago (give or take 38k years) there weren't any cave-guardsmen. Or other people for that matter.

Maybe thats what happened to the dinosaurs?

Host Tar
03-03-2013, 20:44
IMO necron stuff isn't techno-mad/advanced enough. Enemies should be dead before they even think about standing up to necrons. They're gear still looks like traditional weapons (blades guns etc). Why do their flyers need pilots? While the fluff is awesome & some of the models are excellent, in my mind, they are god-like in their abilities, it's just most of the models & ideas fall short of that for me

viv714r
03-03-2013, 20:45
The human race started somewhere... (Enter god... Stage left)

but it begs the question... Why did the necrons not just kill/enslave everyone and rule the world while they had the chance?

I think that they were in the process of doing that when they had an altracation with the C'tan.

B-Ravens 52
03-03-2013, 20:49
Now I know c'tan can phase shift to, but would the necron guass stuff not just, in effect, delete the c'tan?

And I agree, looking at it from a timeline point of view, the necrons seem to be lacking...

we have unmanned stuff already and are no where near guass yet, but the necrons have guass and not automated transports/fliers ect? This indeed is strange

Latro_
03-03-2013, 21:28
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Enslaver
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Enslaver#.UTPOQzCeN8E

Above gives you a decent idea of the whole old old fluff of 40k

The old ones basically seeded eldar, orks, humans etc to fight the necrons.

Also at the end of the day its a toy soldier game, everything roughly has to work to make a playable game. For example why do deathmarks need scoped on their rifles... lol why not embed it in their heads... its cus it looks cool.

Charistoph
03-03-2013, 21:31
Well, for one thing, the Necrons DO have unmanned equipment, look at the Scarabs, Spiders, and Wraiths. And while their combat transports and flyers are "manned", AI often aren't as good at on the fly stuff as a developed intelligence.

For the Guardmsen lasguns, they are easy technology to make and maintain, so the perfect weapon when you are outfitting Billions of soldiers at a time. (And Dinosaurs were on Earth 60-65 million years ago, even by 40K).

Another thought is that sometimes you get stuck on a developmental track that other ideas just don't occur to you. To borrow another universe's example, the Asgard of Stargate fame would never have thought of using kinetic weapons propelled by chemical explosions to deal with their most dangerous enemy, but machine guns/shotguns were still the perfect weapon to use against them individually.

Hengist
03-03-2013, 23:47
As has already been said, 40k's background is not hard SF, and retains very little plausibility or internal consistency under close investigation, but it's enjoyable for what it is: ridiculous, exaggerated pulp hokum.

There's plenty of SF out there that makes some kind of semi-plausible sense: unsurprisingly it's written in proper novels by real authors, not cobbled together to fill space in a wargame rulebook.

Chem-Dog
04-03-2013, 01:10
Now I know c'tan can phase shift to, but would the necron guass stuff not just, in effect, delete the c'tan?

What happens when you try to disassemble an all powerful entity who can control every process in the physical universe?
This ...


Reassembling myself was the first trick I learned. It didn't kill Osterman... did you really think it would kill me? I have walked across the surface of the Sun. I have witnessed events so tiny and so fast they can hardly be said to have occurred at all....

I honestly don't think shearing off molecules is going to worry a C'tan all that much. ;)

Actually, I read on the boards here somewhere that the C'tan are somehow essential components of the universe and therefore it's a fairly unwise thing to utterly eradicate them (so like all good 'tache twirling villains, the Necrons broke them up into bits).

Horus38
04-03-2013, 02:15
but it begs the question... Why did the necrons not just kill/enslave everyone and rule the world while they had the chance?

Because they were fighting proto-orks, eldar and other races created by the Old Ones, another race of comparable technology mastery.

MLP
04-03-2013, 03:20
but it begs the question... Why did the necrons not just kill/enslave everyone and rule the world while they had the chance?

They wouldn't have even noticed the human species as 65mil years ago, they would be some form of hairy creature on a would full of other equally unimportant creatures.

Regetar
04-03-2013, 06:18
Actually, I read on the boards here somewhere that the C'tan are somehow essential components of the universe and therefore it's a fairly unwise thing to utterly eradicate them (so like all good 'tache twirling villains, the Necrons broke them up into bits).

And then they shoveled what they could find into copious amounts of pocket dimensions.

Speaking of pocket dimensions, why do Necrons even need the Dolmen Gates? Why couldn't they just invent a pocket dimension that enters at Point A and exits at Point B? (Kinda like a Shokk Attack Gun, except more powerful and not through the Warp.) They have contained wormholes and all this other stuff, yet they can't make a pocket dimension capable of travel.

Lord Squidar
04-03-2013, 06:21
The necrons are the guys whom in a sci fi setting make the most advanced races use arthur c clarkes famous quote. Some of their weapon is hand held and completely harmless to the user in comparision to the same weapon having to be tank mounted or prone to overheating and maiming its user. Nevermind that barring speed (initiative) and skill at close combat (ws), their basic infantry are as good if not better than the very peak of human evolution barring psychic powers and primarchs which are something more than human.

RandomThoughts
04-03-2013, 08:39
Yea but they had to have the guass weapons before the sleep right, so when the IG were still playing with sticks and stones trying to work out how to make fire the necrons were playing my monocular and nano-tech... How scary is that?

I don't know. There were people playing chicken with nuclear bombs when I was trying to figure out how to say "mommy" and how to stand. How scary is that?


[Watchmen Quote]

Awesome, I love you for that!

B-Ravens 52
04-03-2013, 09:54
Very good point...

so it would seem the necrons are comparable to our most ancient races

Worship
04-03-2013, 15:58
IMO necron stuff isn't techno-mad/advanced enough. Enemies should be dead before they even think about standing up to necrons. They're gear still looks like traditional weapons (blades guns etc). Why do their flyers need pilots? While the fluff is awesome & some of the models are excellent, in my mind, they are god-like in their abilities, it's just most of the models & ideas fall short of that for me

lol all my thoughts on Necrons, exactly.

FashaTheDog
04-03-2013, 16:27
Maybe thats what happened to the dinosaurs?

Necrons ate my dinosaurs! :eek:

B-Ravens 52
04-03-2013, 16:51
And we thought the T-Rex was a badass...

Hrw-Amen
04-03-2013, 19:38
Have you considered that they can have UAVs if they want to but sometimes sticking yourself onto a machine designed to go extremely fast whether on land, water in the air or in space is sometimes just great fun. If you can blow stuff up with it that is even better. Maybe Necrons just like the rush and the thrill of it, I mean i don't see a load of intelligent metal skeletons getting much other fun.

Alternatively perhaps the pilots are simply warriors that are essentially drones from what I have read. Perhaps it is just easier for the Necron Overlords to use them as they have millions of the thing just sitting around dormant. Why create a whole new area of tech when you have an ample supply of things that will perform the job equally as well and can be readily bolted, hardwired into whatever it is you want them to control?

Worship
04-03-2013, 20:10
Have you considered that they can have UAVs if they want to but sometimes sticking yourself onto a machine designed to go extremely fast whether on land, water in the air or in space is sometimes just great fun. If you can blow stuff up with it that is even better. Maybe Necrons just like the rush and the thrill of it, I mean i don't see a load of intelligent metal skeletons getting much other fun.

Alternatively perhaps the pilots are simply warriors that are essentially drones from what I have read. Perhaps it is just easier for the Necron Overlords to use them as they have millions of the thing just sitting around dormant. Why create a whole new area of tech when you have an ample supply of things that will perform the job equally as well and can be readily bolted, hardwired into whatever it is you want them to control?

They have advanced technology and living metal...

What would be easier than to have all their equipment and vehicles operate themselves? :P

Allornone
04-03-2013, 21:28
They have advanced technology and living metal...

What would be easier than to have all their equipment and vehicles operate themselves? :P

Actually if you read the fluff of their vehicles you discover that they almost do. Tomb blades fly following pregenerated patterns and algorithm, and the Scythes contains enought data to react to any possible situations. But you have to remember that necrons are gigantic traditionalist. They openly despise modifying their body, so much that the only ones that do it (the destroyers) are the craziest of the bunch. Many Overlord refuse to use Canoptek costructs in war, only because it's not proper. For necrons there must be someone to drive their machines, only because it's tradition. Even if the pilot only job is to choose between "Attack Pattern 10111" and "Attack Pattern 01000".

RandomThoughts
05-03-2013, 12:28
Very good point...

so it would seem the necrons are comparable to our most ancient races

Are you familiar with Babylon 5?

If so, I'd compare the Necrons (and possibly the Eldar) to Vorlons and Shadows.

If not, go watch it! I think you'll find all the scariness of ancient races that played god while we were still waiting for the first camp fire you ever wanted there. It's basically the foundation the series is built upon.

Which by the way is also true of the Lensmen novel series, not sure if they are still in print somewhere.

Then we have 2001, of course, which was built around a similar motiv. Then of course the whole Erich van Däniken BS about aliens seeding life on Earth, guiding us towards modern civilization, which inspired Jack Kirby to the Immortals in the Marvel Comic universe. Another echo of Däniken can be found in Prometheus (2012), of course, in the opening scene an alien (probably) committs suicide on Earth, releasing his DNA into the sea.

Then there is Stargate, of course, both the original movie and the various TV series. The original movie actually comes pretty close to the modern Necrons, with their ancient egyption style and their horribly advanced energy beam weapons.

Then of course there is the myth of atlantis, and various takes on it in which the old Atlanteans had tech far superior to anything known to the author - less commen in the 21st century than back in the 20th century in my opinion, but still...

I'm pretty sure there's a lot more out there. Still, keeping it in the 40K universe, the Eldar also traveled between the stars and harnessed the power of the warp long before humans even had a word for "star". They are just as much an ancient race as the Necrons are to the humans. Now look at the Tau on the other hand, which are the young, space explorers common in 1960 sci-fi. To them, the empire of man is ancient and evil, not that different from the Necrons, really.

Regards
RT




Necrons ate my dinosaurs! :eek:

Now I got this imagestuck in my head:

ROBOTS vs DINOSAURS

no, better:

ALIEN ROBOTS vs DINOSAURS

Charistoph
05-03-2013, 14:53
65 million years ago, the closest genetic relative to Man would be some rodent or lemur. Saurians were dying out, if not dead already. The only campfire stories that would be possible about Necrons is if they were told to us by Eldar, Tzeentch, or the Mars Necron colony who woke up early.

Reasonable Commissar
05-03-2013, 15:37
Robot dinosaurs vs dinosaur aliens.

B-Ravens 52
05-03-2013, 16:10
If there was a necron colony on mars does this beg the question, are there necrons buried deep beneath the feet if terra (war of the worlds...) I suppose the imperium better get digging...

Charistoph
05-03-2013, 16:29
I thought the Necrons made their Tomb Worlds barren before going to sleep...

Argonus
05-03-2013, 17:11
If there was a necron colony on mars does this beg the question, are there necrons buried deep beneath the feet if terra (war of the worlds...) I suppose the imperium better get digging...

If there were Necrons on Terra they would have been unearthed long before M41. During the heresy Horus barraged Terra with force enough to splinter a continent, so its safe to assume that Necrons would have awakened by that at least.Before that there had been age of strife and dark age of techlogy, during wich human would have likely found them. On Mars tough could very well be somthing Necronish at least. But who knows?

totgeboren
06-03-2013, 10:41
Yea but they had to have the guass weapons before the sleep right, so when the IG were still playing with sticks and stones trying to work out how to make fire the necrons were playing my monocular and nano-tech... How scary is that?

I just have to point out (really, I can't help myself!) that this post makes little sense, as humans as we would recognize them by looks is about 200,000 years old, and modern behavior is much younger than that. About 5 million years ago, humans and chimps were the same specie, and 60-65 million years ago is when the big dinosaurs became extinct, and mammals started to diversify and grow bigger.

Maybe the earth was a battlefield, with Eldar riding dinosaurs and Necrons shooting their pewpew flayers, all ending with a big explosion and then they left the scorched earth to its own devises?

Madmongo
06-03-2013, 11:24
Arent the Necrons basically drones anyway? I mean all but the lords have lost almost everything about them that makes them individually concious...

Azulthar
06-03-2013, 18:46
Arent the Necrons basically drones anyway? I mean all but the lords have lost almost everything about them that makes them individually concious...
This is much less severe in the new codex, though it can definitely be said about the lowliest Necrons (the Warriors).

Polaria
06-03-2013, 19:16
What would be easier than to have all their equipment and vehicles operate themselves? :P

What makes you think there is a pilot in a Nightscythe? Oh yes, the model has a single necron sitting there. Do we actually know what he is doing and whether that has anything to do with actual flying of the craft?

For all we know that guy might actually be a combat-photographer who is there to take pretty pictures of lesser races being flayed alive, electrocuted and vaporized by deathrays. :chrome:

Emperor's Grace
06-03-2013, 21:13
He's just there to yell pew! pew! and cackle as your friends evaporate.

Amazing what level of psychological harm that inflicts on the enemy vs a quiet whooshing.

FashaTheDog
06-03-2013, 22:26
What makes you think there is a pilot in a Nightscythe? Oh yes, the model has a single necron sitting there. Do we actually know what he is doing and whether that has anything to do with actual flying of the craft?

For all we know that guy might actually be a combat-photographer who is there to take pretty pictures of lesser races being flayed alive, electrocuted and vaporized by deathrays. :chrome:

It's a Dynasty Transportation Safety Administration (DTSA) regulation; all Necron vessels are full automated, but a Necron pilot must be present in case of catastrophic system failure. Most of the time, and the detail is too small to model, but the pilot is actually playing solitaire during operation (when his superior is not around, mainly).

Polaria
07-03-2013, 19:36
Just found a wonderfull little piece of fluff regarding the pilots:

Tomb Blades were originally designed as spacefighters. The logic of the Necrons was that Warrior body was already sealed against vacuum, so instead of building a craft from scratch, they woild bolt engines and weapons to the Warrior body. Furthermore it explains that the Tomb Blade flight is actually completely automated since Warriors are dreadful pilots. Thus, at least in Tomb Blade, the vehicle does not have a pilot, but instead the pilot IS the vehicle. In addition to providing the load-bearing chassis for the engines and the weapons his only job is targeting and firing the weapons.

On Doomscythes the function of the pilot is explained as follows: "Much of the craft's superstructure houses datastacks that are in turn heavily laden with strike plans, strategems and tactical variants. When faced with situation outside of known parameters, the pilot can sift through and retrieve the correct response from this datastack. Thanks to the ruthless precision of his android brain, the pilot can simulate billions of possible strategies in the span of a few nanoseconds."

So in this case instead of building a vehicle and putting a computer to run it, they take a readily made computer (the pilot), bolt a few mteric tons of solid memory blocks, an engine and weapons to it.

Azulthar
08-03-2013, 10:05
To be honest, I also like "tradition" to be at least partially responsible for why there are Necron pilots. It fits them.