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casualgamer
07-03-2013, 01:12
This is the order in which I played these games back in the day many many years ago but if it wasnt for me and my friend starting out with Hero Quest in 89-90 would I have even known what Warhammer was?? I think GW need to bring something like the above back out maybe a newer version with similar themes etc its how I was hooked as a kid- I guess what I'm trying to say is they were stepping stones to all these above games I played- FACT= If it wasnt for Hero Quest I would not have spent the $$$$thousands$$$$ over the years of GW stuff.
I reckon part of GW's marketing plan should be aimed at young kids (re-release a simple basic game eg HERO QUEST) then as they grow older and have there own money they will buy more of the advanced games of yours eg warhammer (I know its not as black and white as Im making it but its a numbers game)

Thoughts?

(BTW I just brought a Hero Quest board game this week from a secondhand site, It is a completely new and even unopened box-Score!!!!!!!!!!!!) not a word of a lie, it had ever so slighty dusty plastic wrapping and everything- card doors I had to break away from the templates and the figures on sprues:) Dont know how it was not even opened from 24years ago

shakedown47
07-03-2013, 03:58
The board pundits will tell you that GW is already aiming at young kids with their recent rules and model releases.

I agree, Hero Quest, Battle Masters, and other like games of that day were the introduction to "open world" games for many of us, and planted the seed for many future expenditures. I'd like to see a re-release of Hero Quest and Battle Masters both, actually, specifically to be sold in big-box stores. Many of the current games made by publishers such as FFG are as good as or superior to any of their ancestors, but the problem is that they are predominately sold in specialized game shops and the occasional book store. In other words, they're not as mass market as Hero Quest was back in the day and most of the people exposed to them are the ones that would be exposed to 40k?Fantasy anyway.

Brother Haephestus
07-03-2013, 04:16
I did some HeroQuest that I thought was good, and I adored Warhammer Quest, but I think GW burnt themselves out on self-competing product. I doubt we'll ever get another sub-game like Necromunda and the like again, which makes BroH sad.

abdulaapocolyps
07-03-2013, 05:36
I agree with the op immensely.there are almost no games out there now that do not require a dungeon master too which is a big point...
GW do not think like this though...the marketing guys want games that require many hundreds of pounds for a realistic entry level force, Necromunda and WHQ you could be done for under a hundred quid...never mind that it got you into the whole thing. I hate to sound boring with th anti gw spiel but the repeated diminishing returns year on year are no clue to them that so much of their strategy is flawed.
On a side note I recently created a couple of spreadsheets for WHQ,one that has a customisable random monster generator and a random item generator with all the magic items from all the expansions, cards and all and another that generates bar room events and allows you to react to situations with lots of outcomes.if anyone wants them let me know!
Long live WHQ and even LONGER live the might of Necromunda, which is everything 40k wishes it was.

zoggin-eck
07-03-2013, 08:27
Thoughts?


Yes, this thread get brought up every month. I guess you're only recently joined, but I think most people have said all that they can on the matter.

BigbyWolf
07-03-2013, 11:07
Yes, this thread get brought up every month. I guess you're only recently joined, but I think most people have said all that they can on the matter.

If you’re going to criticise the OP, the nice thing to do would be to prove such threads exist by providing links to them.:yes:

zoggin-eck
07-03-2013, 11:45
If you’re going to criticise the OP, the nice thing to do would be to prove such threads exist by providing links to them.:yes:

Not really, and it wasn't criticising.

DarthSte
07-03-2013, 12:45
Not really, and it wasn't criticising.

Got any citations for that? :shifty:

BTJ
07-03-2013, 12:56
Why should they bother? FFG and videogames pay them to potentially introduce new people to GW, and most decent bookstores stock BL novels, and some newsagents stock WD too. If GW were to make boardgames for general sale now, it would just divert resources from WFB/40k and possibly negatively impact sales of the two games. I wouldn't ever expect them to do that again

williamsond
07-03-2013, 13:16
I would buy hero quest if it was re-released It was the start of my very long wargaming hobby.

justsumguy
07-03-2013, 13:40
http://www.change.org/petitions/bring-25th-anniversary-heroquest-edition-to-market

People should sign this.

BigbyWolf
07-03-2013, 15:38
Not really, and it wasn't criticising.

Bit of a pointless post then, really...

Anyway, back on topic then, seeing as we're using this thread...

I'd love to see them release the games again, my first experiences with both universes were Heroquest and Space Crusade, although SC is a lot more Warhammer-related then HQ is (as far as I remember...SC is Space Marines of varying chapters and related 40K goodness, HQ seemed like a lot more of a generic fantasy setting). I loved all the expansions too, and ended up getting them all (between me & my brother).

I owned Advanced Heroquest too, which was also a lot of fun, but I only got that after I'd started with GW proper. I'm not sure if I played Advanced Space Crusade...was it related to Tyranid Attack?

Of all of them though, which ones were GW-only? Might there be ownership issues over the ones they made with MB?

Tarliyn
07-03-2013, 16:26
I will agree with zoggin that this post does get made very frequently. That being said though bringing these games back would be great. I actually just picked up a copy of warhammer quest a few months back and LOVE it. I had never played before so its not just a situation of looking back at my youth. It gives me a way to use my minis now since I dont currently have an opponent where I live. I even bought some minis for armies I never even would have touched before to start making different themee dungeons. This is its power, GW has now sold an extra box of skaven, WoC, minotaurs, and gors that they never would have due to a game they made 20 years ago. Imagine what they would get if they released it today?


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williamsond
07-03-2013, 18:17
http://www.change.org/petitions/bring-25th-anniversary-heroquest-edition-to-market

People should sign this.

I did if you haven't why not, come on stop procrastinating on the interwebs and help me and several 1000 other 30somethings re-live our miss-spent childhoods...

canberraguy
08-03-2013, 09:02
I think this lack of skirmish games is a HUGE reason why GW is losing sales. A majority of gamers who started in the 90s got into the hobby thru MB games or the GW skirmish games. Young people do not have a cheap intro to the hobby.

tristessa
08-03-2013, 09:23
They were definitely designed to get people into the hobby.

It's weird they haven't gone down this road again, though I remember being the told the prohibitive cost of cardboard had something to do with it (seriously!). Though that said the declining amount of young people playing board games might be a reason - times have changed. Videogames are the better entry point now I'd say. Interested in what the creative assembly warhammer game will be like.

BigbyWolf
08-03-2013, 11:30
I think this lack of skirmish games is a HUGE reason why GW is losing sales. A majority of gamers who started in the 90s got into the hobby thru MB games or the GW skirmish games. Young people do not have a cheap intro to the hobby.

Agreed, when I was younger my favourite games were Man O'War, Necromunda, and Warhammer Quest, because they were easily affordable for a teenager. Epic too, to a certain extent.

zoggin-eck
08-03-2013, 11:45
Got any citations for that? :shifty:

Yes, my earlier post. Mentioning that threads already exist, and go in the same old circles, is hardly criticising. I'd love to see these games return, or new ones to replace them, but the OP really is saying the same line that's been mentioned by pretty much anyone who played back then (I'm the same, Heroquest was my first real Warhammer experience).


Bit of a pointless post then, really...


Mentioning that there are similar subjects online is pointless? My post is basically me agreeing with the OP, that similar sentiments are found all over the place. Just searching the name "heroquest" come up with enough people asking for it to return.



.....HQ seemed like a lot more of a generic fantasy setting....


The missions in the expansions were written from Emperor Karl Franz, which I though sounded pretty Warhammer, and everything had a WHFB counterpart :)



I'm not sure if I played Advanced Space Crusade...was it related to Tyranid Attack?

Of all of them though, which ones were GW-only? Might there be ownership issues over the ones they made with MB?

Tyranid Attack is a different game, released without Milton Bradley, but using many of the same art/tiles/models.

.....

It'd be cool to see a new set for any of these old games with updated models a-la Space Hulk (I can't bring myself to field some of the Battlemaster models any more), but I don't see why Hasbro would let them, if indeed it does hinge on them.

It's the "Hey, GW should remake Heroquest, I used to play that!" mentions all the time I find odd. GW are well aware of the love for these games, even Rick Priestley has mentioned them since leaving GW. We saw Mantic have a go at dungeon crawling games, even a skirmish sports game of their own. They've had a go at a re-make, along with a new board/miniatures game (both limited, and without the toy-store push that these earlier games had, though) and have plenty of fantasy/40k board games from Fantasy Flight. If they thought it would work, or be worth it, they really would have done it already. Sadly (for me), an ipad Warhammer Quest is what they've decided to make instead.

Perhaps the Hobbit games won't have the desired effect or replicating what the Lotr games/magazine did for them (as far as I've read, it hasn't so far), and something like this may be tried again soon enough. Would be nice, but in the mean-time there's enough other game companies to choose from.

IJW
08-03-2013, 12:20
I owned Advanced Heroquest too, which was also a lot of fun, but I only got that after I'd started with GW proper. I'm not sure if I played Advanced Space Crusade...was it related to Tyranid Attack?


Tyranid Attack is a different game, released without Milton Bradley, but using many of the same art/tiles/models.

A bit more clarification - neither Advanced Space Crusade nor Tyranid Attack had any direct connection to Milton Bradley, they were both GW products through-and-through.

They used almost all the same components and the same general gameplay but Tyranid Attack had simplified rules.

nedius
08-03-2013, 12:45
As much as I loved (and still love) the GW & MB/GW board games, the day of the family board game is probably all but gone - especially long, complicated ones.

However, that doesn't mean they are gone entirely... there are Space Hulk and Warhammer Quest computer games in the making (I hope that WQ will eventually go to platforms other than Apple... an odd choice to go single platform for what is already a bit of a niche market. Why deliberately hobble yourself by limiting your customer base??).

IJW
08-03-2013, 12:48
It's the one where people will pay for games. Rodeo (WQ producer) ported some of their older games to Android last year so if it's limited to iOS long-term it won't have been their decision...

BigbyWolf
08-03-2013, 13:20
Mentioning that there are similar subjects online is pointless? My post is basically me agreeing with the OP, that similar sentiments are found all over the place. Just searching the name "heroquest" come up with enough people asking for it to return.

Fair enough, I may have jumped on you a little quickly. ;)


The missions in the expansions were written from Emperor Karl Franz, which I though sounded pretty Warhammer, and everything had a WHFB counterpart :)

True, but it also could have a had a LoTR counterpart...I just meant that SC with Marines, Chaos Marines, Eldar, etc was a lot more tied to GW. You could happily have a game of HQ without thinking it was GW.


A bit more clarification - neither Advanced Space Crusade nor Tyranid Attack had any direct connection to Milton Bradley, they were both GW products through-and-through.

They used almost all the same components and the same general gameplay but Tyranid Attack had simplified rules.

I thought there was some relation- I saw some of the Tyranid Warriors from Advanced Space Crusade and that’s what threw me.

Side note- just googled Tyranid Attack with a view to buy…£225.

I might be a sucker for some retro GW things, but that’s a little too much.


As much as I loved (and still love) the GW & MB/GW board games, the day of the family board game is probably all but gone - especially long, complicated ones.

I think you’d be surprised about the popularity of board games…Nowadays half my “gaming” time is spent on board games (zombie-themed ones, usually…but I’m always willing to try something new), and given the way my Warhammer passion is dropping, I can only see this increasing.

Although, re-reading you do refer to “family” games, which I suppose is a bit different to the games I play…

budman
08-03-2013, 13:30
Space Crusade was awesome in the 80's and is still a blast played as it last year and had a great time craking jokes about the changes it the setting between now and then...

BigbyWolf
08-03-2013, 13:59
Space Crusade was awesome in the 80's and is still a blast played as it last year and had a great time craking jokes about the changes it the setting between now and then...

Are the Blood Angels still overpowered? :shifty:

shelfunit.
08-03-2013, 14:01
Side note- just googled Tyranid Attack with a view to buy…£225.

I might be a sucker for some retro GW things, but that’s a little too much.

Saw a nearly complete one go for about £20 a few weeks ago
(http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/tyranid-attack-game-for-spares-/290866123824?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item43b8f8d430)

BigbyWolf
08-03-2013, 14:20
Saw a nearly complete one go for about £20 a few weeks ago
(http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/tyranid-attack-game-for-spares-/290866123824?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item43b8f8d430)

And you didn't tell me?!:mad:
















;)

shelfunit.
08-03-2013, 14:41
And you didn't tell me?!:mad:
*snip*
;)

I would have, but your PMs are full ;)

ColShaw
08-03-2013, 16:34
I've got a double set of Heroquest, including the Kellar's Keep, Return of the Witch Lord, and Barbarian Quest Pack expansions. Never did get the Elf Quest Pack, for which I am heartily sorry. I also have an old beat-up Battlemasters game lying around, and agree with the previous poster who said the tower is a great terrain piece.

Lots of good times associated with those games. :)

Hengist
09-03-2013, 16:50
Though I would be gladdened to see GW return to the boxed games market, I wouldn't expect it to happen. Even ignoring GW's unwillingness to venture outside their present core business - which is to say selling very expensive plastic miniatures by the hundred to early-teen children - the world has moved on since the days of Heroquest. Thematic board games (and GW would be incapable of producing anything else) are no longer big business in the games world, and haven't been since the mid-1990s explosion of Eurogames. (By way of example, only 15 of BGG's 100 'most rated' are thematic games, of which the vast majority are IP tie-ins like Battlestar Galactica or Lord of the Rings.)

I wouldn't deny that GW have lost sales by ignoring boxed games - as I pointed out last time this came up, you can buy Catan, Small World, Ticket to Ride and even Descent in UK bookstore chains - but I strongly suspect that they just don't care about those potential sales. By their rationale, a 'Revised Heroquest', which would require investment to find competent writers, paying for board art and tooling lots of new plastic sprues, just wouldn't generate the required level of profitability within the required timeframe.

Now I agree that in the long term a 28mm game set in the Warhammer world would justify its costs by exposing new players to GW's stuff - if the game were well-written and nicely-presented, it might even earn GW some interest or respect from the boardgaming world (a market much larger and potentially more lucrative than wargaming). The guys in charge of GW's business direction, however, aren't rewarded for thinking in the long term, only for keeping profits consistent from one quarter to the next, and doubtless intend to be plodding through the management of some other business long before the company's slowly-diminishing customer base becomes a critical problem.

But you know, I'm not sure that we should even care. If you want to play Heroquest (or Warhammer Quest) and don't already own a copy, there are oodles of dungeoncrawl games out there: Descent, Claustrophobia, Hybrid, Castle Ravenloft, Dwarf King's Hold... pick one that takes your fancy and play it. Moreover, all of those game offer significantly more depth, refinement and replayability than Heroquest, or indeed any board game GW have ever released. (Indeed more than any game that the publisher who considered Dreadfleet an adequate game would ever be likely to release.)

williamsond
09-03-2013, 17:22
If you want to play Heroquest (or Warhammer Quest) and don't already own a copy, there are oodles of dungeoncrawl games out there: Descent, Claustrophobia, Hybrid, Castle Ravenloft, Dwarf King's Hold... pick one that takes your fancy and play it. Moreover, all of those game offer significantly more depth, refinement and replayability than Heroquest, or indeed any board game GW have ever released. (Indeed more than any game that the publisher who considered Dreadfleet an adequate game would ever be likely to release.)

to be honest for me it would be more about revisiting my youth and all the memories that came with it

Sheena Easton
09-03-2013, 19:03
I would love a reissue of HeroQuest with stunning new models, fully plastic furniture and doors... maybe even a new monster to replace the Fimir (which would probably end up being a Black Orc).

I still hope my old copy is in storage but more than likely it ended up in the bin. :cries:

I'd happily pay £75-£100 for it too.

Hengist
09-03-2013, 21:27
I fear your nostalgia for Heroquest would be better served by GW not reissuing the game...

budman
11-03-2013, 09:56
Are the Blood Angels still overpowered? :shifty:

No they die to orks just like every else.

BTJ
11-03-2013, 11:26
I fear your nostalgia for Heroquest would be better served by GW not reissuing the game...

I dunno, everyone I know who's played Dreadfleet said it's pretty good. The only reason I haven't played myself is that the LGS's copy is short a few ships that the guy they commissioned to paint ran off with. I'd be happy to see a re-issue of HQ or SC, and this year is a box-game year....

Hengist
11-03-2013, 12:57
I dunno, everyone I know who's played Dreadfleet said it's pretty good. The only reason I haven't played myself is that the LGS's copy is short a few ships that the guy they commissioned to paint ran off with. I'd be happy to see a re-issue of HQ or SC, and this year is a box-game year....

Well, I can't comment for everybody you know, but I've played Dreadfleet, and it stinks. It stinks like a barbarian's loincloth. And I don't know a single boardgamer who thinks any more highly of it than I do, which is why there are still unsold copies available on eBay for half the original price. Even Jake Thornton hates Dreadfleet (http://quirkworthy.com/2011/10/08/dreadfleet-review-2-more-ships-more-battles/):


Sad as it is to say, I think Dreadfleet is the worst game that Games Workshop have ever made. Bar none. I’m not talking about the components here (which are fine), or the price (which is high), I’m talking about the playing experience (which is the worst).

...

Worse than Combat Cards, worse than the Troll games, worse than Kerrunch! and SpaceFleet.

Seriously, unless your nostalgia for the dungeoncrawling of your youth is so narrowly specific that only a game called Heroquest and sold by GW would suffice, you would be far better served by playing something modern, published by a company who gives a damn about writing games that are worth playing. As for this year promising a new boxed game... I'll believe it when I see it. Since 2009's Space Hulk reissue, every internet fantasist and troll that has claimed to know GW's release schedule has insisted that the coming September will see a deluxe reissue of one popular classic or other. It has never happened again.

Tarliyn
11-03-2013, 17:59
Well, I can't comment for everybody you know, but I've played Dreadfleet, and it stinks. It stinks like a barbarian's loincloth. And I don't know a single boardgamer who thinks any more highly of it than I do, which is why there are still unsold copies available on eBay for half the original price. Even Jake Thornton hates Dreadfleet (http://quirkworthy.com/2011/10/08/dreadfleet-review-2-more-ships-more-battles/):



Seriously, unless your nostalgia for the dungeoncrawling of your youth is so narrowly specific that only a game called Heroquest and sold by GW would suffice, you would be far better served by playing something modern, published by a company who gives a damn about writing games that are worth playing. As for this year promising a new boxed game... I'll believe it when I see it. Since 2009's Space Hulk reissue, every internet fantasist and troll that has claimed to know GW's release schedule has insisted that the coming September will see a deluxe reissue of one popular classic or other. It has never happened again.

Well I am a boardgamer (go to board gamr night at the fantasy flight event center inside their headquarters a lot of weeks, as well as own a BUNCH of games, so I would consider myself an avid board gamer) and I enjoyed dreadfleet. Best game ever? No. But most games aren't.

I think it is a shame that dreadfleet as such a bad rep.


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Hengist
11-03-2013, 23:06
Well I am a boardgamer (go to board gamr night at the fantasy flight event center inside their headquarters a lot of weeks, as well as own a BUNCH of games, so I would consider myself an avid board gamer) and I enjoyed dreadfleet. Best game ever? No. But most games aren't.

I think it is a shame that dreadfleet as such a bad rep.

I think it a shame that Dreadfleet got released. I can see how somebody whose gaming horizons were limited principally to FFG's overproduced dicefests might be more tolerant of it, but even by their trashy standards of interminable downtimes and excessive randomness, Dreadfleet is tedious, overlong and uninvolving. Try playing a decent age of sail game like Close Action, and you may understand why it is so universally derided; I have never played a game in which the ratio of time spent playing to meaningful decisions made was as poor as that of Dreadfleet, the naval wargame which omits rules for firing on the swell (i.e. specifically targeting an enemy's sails or his hull, a staple tactical choice of the era, and something even Man'O'War represented), but instead decides to include a deck of event cards that will, in a typical game, be responsible for more damage than the players' cannonades?

Only GW could be so hubristic and incompetent as to release a game so uninvolving and overproduced, and to assume that the zombies would dutifully buy it as they did everything else. Dreadfleet deserves its miserable reputation, just as it deserved to fail badly in the marketplace.

ugavine
12-03-2013, 11:34
As much as I loved (and still love) the GW & MB/GW board games, the day of the family board game is probably all but gone - especially long, complicated ones.

Board Games are selling better than ever at the moment, even complicated long ones like Twilight Imperium and Descent. FFG sell Talisman (Relic is soon to be released, Talisman but with 40K theme) as well as other GW licensed games. And you only have to go to Gencon, Essen or Games Expo UK to see how popular Board Games are.

I do love these old games. I still have my old copies of Talisman, Advanced Heroquest and Space Hulk. And only this weekend I bought a copy of Battle Masters (not sure if that's really GW) off eBay.

But how GW is set up today I don't think board games will work, not unless they change their retail strategy. I was only talking in-store the other day how it would surely make sense for GW stores to carry stocks of the GW licensed FFG Board Games and RPGs.

But the big-wigs are too stubborn to change their model and would obviously rather close stores than move with the times.

BTJ
12-03-2013, 13:49
Seriously, unless your nostalgia for the dungeoncrawling of your youth is so narrowly specific that only a game called Heroquest and sold by GW would suffice, you would be far better served by playing something modern, published by a company who gives a damn about writing games that are worth playing. As for this year promising a new boxed game... I'll believe it when I see it. Since 2009's Space Hulk reissue, every internet fantasist and troll that has claimed to know GW's release schedule has insisted that the coming September will see a deluxe reissue of one popular classic or other. It has never happened again.[/QUOTE]

Not one september since Black Reach came out did GW not release a big box game. So yes, I can see something along those lines being released again this year. Personally, I missed out on HQ and couldn't care less if it gets re-released, there's actual dungeon crawling RPGs to keep me happy, I don't need an RPG-lite. And the major complaint I've heard about dreadfleet is that it's not a new Man O'war like everyone wanted it to be. And don't jump down people's throats when they express a differing opinion of yours, Tarilyn just said he's a regular to the FFG game center, not that they're the only games he plays. You may be surprised to learn other people on this forum HAVE played games not made by FFG and still enjoy FFG board games.

Hengist
12-03-2013, 15:34
Not one september since Black Reach came out did GW not release a big box game. So yes, I can see something along those lines being released again this year.

Many predictions have been made based on a supposed pattern in GW's releases; they have usually been wrong. As I said, classic reissues have been rumoured over and over again since 2009, and have conspicuously not happened. Yes, it's possible, and yes, I'd be delighted by a Blood Bowl reissue, but if it does happen it will be a surprise. In the light of GW's recent belt-tightening, I would be particularly surprised for them to take the financial risk of issuing a standalone boxed game when Dreadfleet flopped so terribly that GW had to recall a mountain of unsold copies from their stores, and shrinkwrapped boxes are still selling for half price on eBay three years later.


And the major complaint I've heard about dreadfleet is that it's not a new Man O'war like everyone wanted it to be. And don't jump down people's throats when they express a differing opinion of yours, Tarilyn just said he's a regular to the FFG game center, not that they're the only games he plays. You may be surprised to learn other people on this forum HAVE played games not made by FFG and still enjoy FFG board games.

Well, my apologies if I appeared to be overly aggressive in my assertion, but having bothered to elucidate in detail what I consider objectively poor about Dreadfleet's design (to precis: arbitrariness and lack of tactical depth for its playing time), getting a reply which amounts to "But I liked it..." without bothering to support that assertion with any kind of argument is faintly insulting. That's not objecting to a differing opinion; that's objecting to intellectual laziness.

Dreadfleet fails badly as a naval wargame by failing to simulate any significant details of naval warfare; it has no mechanics for signals or for firing on the swell. It fails more basically as a game by allowing random elements to greatly overshadow the effects of players choices; this might be tolerable in a beer-and-pretzels quickie - Cap'n Treasure Boots, for instance - but in a game which takes several hours to play and costs £80, it's unacceptable.

Now, if you disagree, I'd be happy to hear why, but be willing to engage with the arguments I've made with something better than "You just don't like it because it's not Man'O'War.".

sigur
12-03-2013, 15:55
Bit of a pointless post then, really...

Anyway, back on topic then, seeing as we're using this thread...
...

Well, usually it's more helpful for people to seek info on older releases which obviously get talked about a lot to do a forums search before starting a new thread. ;) Gets you more info quicker.

@casualgamer: However, congrats on the Heroquest catch. ;) Still trying to get that game...

Of course it wouldn't make much sense for GW to re-release these games, especially with so much new competition around doing the very same games (Descent, SDE, D&D boardgame, by extension Thunderstone, etc.). On top of that, GW got FFG to do that kind of stuff now.

Tarliyn
12-03-2013, 16:05
Well, my apologies if I appeared to be overly aggressive in my assertion, but having bothered to elucidate in detail what I consider objectively poor about Dreadfleet's design (to precis: arbitrariness and lack of tactical depth for its playing time), getting a reply which amounts to "But I liked it..." without bothering to support that assertion with any kind of argument is faintly insulting. That's not objecting to a differing opinion; that's objecting to intellectual laziness.


I responded to your assertition that you have never met a boardgamer that liked dreadfleet. I said I was a board gamer and gave you a sample of why I think that I am a boardgamer, ie that I play board games almost every week and I do it at the event center which has the largest board game collection I have seen and it has games across ALL publishing companies (I actaully think GW should use the event center as their model for their shops with a few adjustments but that is a different topic). So you made a claim, I made a response and gave you my qualifications as to why I think my response is valid.

Now onto dreadfleet itself I personally don't want to get into a debate over its mechanics nor was that what you asked about. You said no boardgamer you had met liked it, as a board gamer I liked it.

You seem really ready to attack people who disagree with you. We are talking about board games, lol. A hobby must of us enjoy lets go sing kum ba yah or something and get along, lol.



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sigur
12-03-2013, 16:58
:D Wow, I missed Hengist's whole tirade against Dreadfleet. Err.... first, it's a GW game (a real one for that matter) so it IS random, silly fun. It seems to be a labour of love from beginning to end (artwork, design, rules, models) and I, as someone who liked GW back in the day this game pays homage to, enjoy it. I understand how Dreadfleet gets so much flak - from the first group of people: because it's not Bloodbowl or Warhammer Quest. From the second group: Because it has no space marines. From the third group: Because GW released it.

I like how GW took a chance and did something completely different to what everybody expected. I liked that a LOT. They could have just done a new Blood Bowl set (and I would have liked that too. I feel for you, BloodBowl brothers. ;) ) or a Necromunda-rehash with Space Marines. I have to admit that I also like random, "light" games in which things can go wrong without you having made any mistakes. I like the fog of war to lie thick across the battlefield. That's life, that's battle. Sure, Dreadfleet is a bit of a weird duck - it's very random for a wargame and pretty detailled for a boardgame.

I don't know, I like it. I can't fight people who are dead-set against it on several points but that's just down to personal opinion I guess and battling over that on the interweb is pretty much a waste of time. Maybe it appeals to me especially because I like 90s GW games, I like painting minis, I like the colourful and absolutely first class quality of the game and its materials. I guess people who are into "systems" and like to "analyze and optimize" them won't like the game as much but for me it's right I think.

Whitwort Stormbringer
14-03-2013, 16:58
I do think that people more-or-less hit the nail on the head, at least in regards to responding to the OP, when saying "family board gaming" is well past its heyday. Obviously board games are extremely popular, maybe more-so now than they were back in the 90's, but I think many of them largely appeal to a gamer crowd, rather than as a casual pass-time that lots of people engage in. That is certainly true of recent forays into dungeon crawling, in my experience.

I think video games are a better tool for attempting to introduce people to the hobby. Admittedly, a video game is a greater departure from tabletop wargaming than a dungeon-crawler, but it's also going to reach a wider and younger audience, which presumably is the point of a recruitment tool. A simple pamphlet or insert advertising the miniatures and tabletop game, tucked in with the video game packaging, might prove effective.

Tarliyn
14-03-2013, 23:40
I do think that people more-or-less hit the nail on the head, at least in regards to responding to the OP, when saying "family board gaming" is well past its heyday. Obviously board games are extremely popular, maybe more-so now than they were back in the 90's, but I think many of them largely appeal to a gamer crowd, rather than as a casual pass-time that lots of people engage in. That is certainly true of recent forays into dungeon crawling, in my experience.

I think video games are a better tool for attempting to introduce people to the hobby. Admittedly, a video game is a greater departure from tabletop wargaming than a dungeon-crawler, but it's also going to reach a wider and younger audience, which presumably is the point of a recruitment tool. A simple pamphlet or insert advertising the miniatures and tabletop game, tucked in with the video game packaging, might prove effective.

While your idea of the phamplet in video games is good I personally don't view video games as an entrance point into the hobby. While the World is the same the medium is entirely different. Its like saying playing farmville on facebook is a good entry point to being a farmer.


Not saying video games don't help and ip exposure is always good but the conversion rate from video game to tabletop isnt going to be high enough for video games to function as an entry point into the tabletop side of things.

Now a multi step approach would be great.

Have a expandable dungeon crawl game that costs roughly the same as a video game. In all related video games an advertisement for said game. In the game include a small catalogue showing miniatures as well as rules to expand your board game to include all models released and a simple guide on SMART things to buy for starting armies as well as ads for whatever starter box is currently out.

This gives you a clear path from video games to tabletop game. Hope that all made sense lol, typing at work on my break.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tarliyn
14-03-2013, 23:44
Double post