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Crusius
09-03-2013, 21:02
One day I'm going to make a Horus Heresy era traitor legion army consisting of at least two legions and the most aesthetically pleasing to me are Night Lords and Death Guard. In the new FW Betrayal book there is an allies chart and it marks Night Lords and Death Guard as Battle Brothers (a discrepancy: Night Lords primary detachment treats Death Guard as Battle Brothers but Death Guard treat Night Lords as Fellow Warriors). Night Lords don't have any other Battle Brothers.

I don't think I've ever come across fluff describing the relationships between these Legions so why do you think FW has them have so close relations?

m1acca1551
10-03-2013, 01:04
Probably becasue the legions compliment each others fighting style?

NL use terror tactics to weaken the resolve of the enemy, whilst the DG march across the field of battle inevitably crushing all in there path?

Dunno it's an interesting one, my thought on the legions that turn traitor is that for the most part they hate working together for various reasons, they are very much led by damaged leaders who would prefer to fight alone. So maybe there is a connection between mortarion and the night haunter that has yet to be revealed?

Londinium
10-03-2013, 01:40
Mortarion and Konrad Curze both have a pretty bleak attitude towards the value of life and humanity in general, so I imagine that'd forge close bonds between the two and this would filter down towards the legions /randomguess.

TheDungen
10-03-2013, 09:18
i dont immagine curze being close to anyone

Azulthar
10-03-2013, 20:04
Of all the Primarchs, Mortarion was only close with the Night Haunter and Horus. So it's fitting that their Legions would have an above-average relationship with each other.

DuskRaider
11-03-2013, 13:08
As Azulthar says, Curze and Mortarion had a close bond. If that exists to present 40K time, I don't know. It hasn't been visited in any lore as of yet (both Heresy Era & 40K), although I was hoping it would be soon.

Crusius
11-03-2013, 13:31
Do you have any references where it says that Curze and Mortarion had a close bond. I'd love to read it, because I don't remember reading such mentions.

Asuryan's Spear
11-03-2013, 13:37
Maybe mortarion dressed in red and black spandex with a green cape at some point and helped Curze reinstall order through fear on nostramo

Sqallum
11-03-2013, 17:19
I could kinda see how the whole death ideal. However, Mortarion did not believe in murdering civilians. In Betrayal it mentions that he ordered his soldiers to not kill any innocents. That's why I find Morty's story so sad - he was a noble guy who got corrupted. Also, him being a farmer on Barbarus just makes me crack up every time I think of it.

DuskRaider
11-03-2013, 20:18
@ Crusius: It's in the Night Lords IA, I believe. Or Death Guard. But I'm pretty sure Night Lords. It's been a long time.

Inquisitor Engel
11-03-2013, 20:36
(a discrepancy: Night Lords primary detachment treats Death Guard as Battle Brothers but Death Guard treat Night Lords as Fellow Warriors)

Not necessarily a discrepancy. The Night Lords aren't trusted by many of the other Legions and they're a shifty lot,, made of criminals and murderers. The Death Guard are right not to trust them, however the Night Lords view the Death Guard as reliable allies.

DuskRaider
11-03-2013, 21:13
Well, Fellow Warriors still means that they get along well and will fight side by side with no hesitance, but they're not as likely to send each other Christmas cards or take the family out to a tandem dinner like the Death Guard and Sons of Horus are.

Londinium
11-03-2013, 21:21
i dont immagine curze being close to anyone

He was pretty close to Fulgrim, seemed to look up to him in a certain way and respected him enough to confide about his nightmares.

Drakcore Bloodtear
11-03-2013, 21:27
He was pretty close to Fulgrim, seemed to look up to him in a certain way and respected him enough to confide about his nightmares.

Fulgrim mentored him in the art of warfare, because daddy was busy

Crusius
11-03-2013, 22:41
@Duskraider: IA Death Guard, just one sentence "...he (Mortarion) found kindred spirits in only two: Night Haunter, the dread master of the Night Lords, and Horus, the Warmaster of the Imperium, the right hand of the Emperor." There is also a bit about using Death Guard as the anvil with Luna Wolves or Night Lords as the hammer.

I hope that the lore is expanded on this, one sentence is hardly much fluff.

In the Betrayer Emperor's Children's and Night Lord's relations are By the Emperor's (or Warmaster's) command, which is interesting. Maybe the fact that Fulgrim shared the nightmares with Dorn had that much of an effect on their relations.

Lord-Caerolion
12-03-2013, 07:28
I'd more say that by the time the Emperors Children have fallen, their degradation would disgust the Night Lords, and even before their fall, I can imagine the methodology of the Night Lords would disgust the by-the-book Emperors Children. Just because the Primarchs got on doesn't mean their Legions do.

Durfast
12-03-2013, 12:21
Both Legions are also seemingly pretty unsympathetic to psychers and sought to avoid the lure of chaos entities. Well, until ravaged by warp-born disease in the case of the DG!

DuskRaider
12-03-2013, 13:28
Not quite. You must remember, Night Haunter himself was a psyker, and they actually had an established Librarian program in the Legion, as seen evident by Night Lords Librarians coming to the Council of Nikea in defense of Magnus.

Madmongo
12-03-2013, 15:39
Anyone know if a Death guard book is in the pipeline for the HH series?

Londinium
13-03-2013, 21:42
Anyone know if a Death guard book is in the pipeline for the HH series?

Flight of the Eisenstein, although it's loyalist Death Guard and is so/so.

baphomael
14-03-2013, 02:29
Yea, FW has stated that there are some deliberate discrepancies in the allies chart - one legion might trust another legion, but that level of trust might not be reciprocated. Thats politics for ya.

As for trust toward the night lords.... even Kurze doesnt trust his own legion :p

Inquisitor Engel
14-03-2013, 03:00
As for trust toward the night lords.... even Kurze doesnt trust his own legion :p

That's putting it lightly. He admits to Sevetar that he downright HATES the Night Lords, or at least, what they've become. Their unflinching worship of him (in a manner I'm not quite sure is seen in any of the other Legions, cult-like, but without the religious tint to it) is an entirely one-way affair.

I thought it interesting that the Night Lords were one of the Legions that did not require purging...

Bonzai
14-03-2013, 17:50
I can see mortarion and Kurze respecting each other. Both are pragmatists at heart, who believe that the road to victory involves going beyond where your opponent is willing to go. Their tactics are designed to wear down the enemies spirit as well as his forces. Both are extremely bitter against "Daddy". Both grew up in nightmarish worlds and struggled to liberate the people from the tyrants that ruled over them, practically by themselves. No great king or ruler raised them. Kurze grew up on a planet full of people who would slit his throat if they could, and Mortarion was raised by a literal monster.

Both are fiercely independent warriors, who just want to be left alone to accomplish their campaign as they see fit. They have no need of Brotherhood or companionship. There would be no pretense or false civility between them. There would be no fawning for approval or jockeying for position. They simply have a job to do, and do not interfere or get involved each others affairs.

For two solitary Primarchs like them, I'm sure they find it a refreshing change.

Londinium
14-03-2013, 19:52
That's putting it lightly. He admits to Sevetar that he downright HATES the Night Lords, or at least, what they've become. Their unflinching worship of him (in a manner I'm not quite sure is seen in any of the other Legions, cult-like, but without the religious tint to it) is an entirely one-way affair.

I thought it interesting that the Night Lords were one of the Legions that did not require purging...

They didn't need purging because as far as they're concerned the Imperium had already turned against them before Horus turned on the Emperor. They don't fight for Horus, they fight alongside Horus in an attempt to get their own back on an empire and man they believe used them, abused them and threw them to a side when he no longer had a use for them. That's why they didn't need purging because as much as the Night Lords hate each other, they hate the Imperium even more.

Kiro
14-03-2013, 21:26
They didn't need purging because as far as they're concerned the Imperium had already turned against them before Horus turned on the Emperor.

I think Engel was referring more to Curze's comment that the Night Lords weren't purged because he 'didn't know where to begin'.


Flight of the Eisenstein, although it's loyalist Death Guard and is so/so.

So/so indeed, I'm still waiting for a Death Guard book in the HH series; as far as I'm concerned FoTE is all about Garro.

DuskRaider
15-03-2013, 14:55
I'm quite sure we'll see a Death Guard book concerning their enslavement to Nurgle soon enough. The closer we get to Terra, the closer we get to Typhon's betrayal.

Azulthar
16-03-2013, 12:51
I'm quite sure we'll see a Death Guard book concerning their enslavement to Nurgle soon enough. The closer we get to Terra, the closer we get to Typhon's betrayal.
I hope it's not the same guy that did Flight of the Eisenstein. The traitor Deathguard came off as dumb evil brutes in that book even prior to Istvaan, like the stereotypical "jocks" in a highschool tv show.

In my mind they even had orkish sounding names :(

DuskRaider
18-03-2013, 15:22
It's understandably difficult to make Barbaran names, considering it's a fictional planet with no known cultural origin. Terran Dusk Raider names are a lot easier, considering they're 'Albian'.