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View Full Version : Does LotR Cannibalize WHFB Sales?



JWhex
12-03-2013, 17:06
Do you think that LotR has had a negative, positive or neutral impact on WHFB. Obviously, many people that have purchased LotR products are drawn specifically to that franchise. However, if someone has a general interest in fantasy wargames and are considering GW, then they are choosing between LotR and WHFB.

It is a very difficult proposition to recruit players to WHFB because of cost and the time needed to assemble and paint so many models. I cannot help but think that the LotR franchise has hurt WHFB even though it may have been a great financial win for GW. As popularity of LotR winds down there will still be the same negative effect on WHFB without the the great financial windfall it once provided.

In my local area, LotR is very unpopular but obviously people must be buying it in the UK or Europe. So I am curious if LotR is popular in your local area and if you think it has had any impact, good or bad on WHFB.

IcedCrow
12-03-2013, 17:24
LOTR is for the most part a very solid system (IMO). I use the models interchangeably. My empire army had several LOTR units in it on warhammer bases because I liked how they looked. Do I think it hurt WHFB sales? Not in any significant way IMO.

Gossipmeng
12-03-2013, 18:07
I think that LotR sales largely bring in new players who never had really considered GW products before. Eventually the LotR line will die out again and when this happens, the strictly LotR players will either disappear or merge with another GW product. They are most likely to lean towards WHFB due to the similarities. In this way I think LotR actually helps WHFB in the long term.

Your argument is that existing fantasy players will choose LotR purchases over WHFB. I agree this will be the case with some players who are limited in their spending power. However, there are many many people in this hobby who put GW purchases ahead of other life priorities. It is these people will will buy from both systems and choose to spend less in other aspects of life.

So overall I think LotR does mooch some sales, but this is overlooked due to revenue generated by new players they never attracted with other game systems.

Voss
12-03-2013, 18:11
Do you think that LotR has had a negative, positive or neutral impact on WHFB. Obviously, many people that have purchased LotR products are drawn specifically to that franchise. However, if someone has a general interest in fantasy wargames and are considering GW, then they are choosing between LotR and WHFB.

It is a very difficult proposition to recruit players to WHFB because of cost and the time needed to assemble and paint so many models. I cannot help but think that the LotR franchise has hurt WHFB even though it may have been a great financial win for GW. As popularity of LotR winds down there will still be the same negative effect on WHFB without the the great financial windfall it once provided.

In my local area, LotR is very unpopular but obviously people must be buying it in the UK or Europe. So I am curious if LotR is popular in your local area and if you think it has had any impact, good or bad on WHFB.

Stateside (which I get is where you're coming from), I think World of Warcraft and various manga (dragonball, naruto, and bleach types) have more of a negative impact on WHFB sales then LotR (which barely moves at all). The current generation of 'fantasy' involves wacky stuff being pushed to ever more ridiculous heights for ever more nonsensical reasons. WHFB is ultimately grounded in generic fantasty from a generation (or two) ago and just doesn't have the appeal to people used to 'wilder' stuff, nor does it have the protagonist dependency that they are used to- characters in WHFB are rather forgettable for the most part.

Whether LotR has an impact on WHFB sales in the rest of the world... I don't really know. I do think the influx of cash from the LotR films helped GW overall, but I don't think the Hobbit tie-ins are going work out the same way.

FLUEVOG
13-03-2013, 17:14
Considering the ludicrous prices they're asking for the Hobbit models, it's easy to see why it's not selling well in the US.

gorenut
13-03-2013, 17:54
I always hear how great the LOTR system is. I wish GW would broaden their horizon with those rules and apply it to Warhammer somehow. Perhaps do an update of Mordheim with those rules. I think that'd help draw in new players or keep barely invested people like me in who simply don't have enough time for full-scale games.

If anything might be hurting GW's sales right now, its probably Privateer Press games. On Bartertown, I see that as the most common trend - people trading/selling their GW stuff for Warmachine/Hordes. That game just seems more accessible due to the size it runs. Models are arguably more expensive than GW's too.

popisdead
13-03-2013, 20:18
Do people still play LotR?

Lordcypress
13-03-2013, 21:27
Lord of the rings is a massive failure in my gaming area. Players view lord of the rings as a gimmicky knock off. The only the thing I've seen anyone buy from lord of the rings is their new eagles to use for their elf armies.

Spiney Norman
13-03-2013, 21:42
Do you think that LotR has had a negative, positive or neutral impact on WHFB. Obviously, many people that have purchased LotR products are drawn specifically to that franchise. However, if someone has a general interest in fantasy wargames and are considering GW, then they are choosing between LotR and WHFB.

It is a very difficult proposition to recruit players to WHFB because of cost and the time needed to assemble and paint so many models. I cannot help but think that the LotR franchise has hurt WHFB even though it may have been a great financial win for GW. As popularity of LotR winds down there will still be the same negative effect on WHFB without the the great financial windfall it once provided.

In my local area, LotR is very unpopular but obviously people must be buying it in the UK or Europe. So I am curious if LotR is popular in your local area and if you think it has had any impact, good or bad on WHFB.

Since models in The Hobbit SBG range don't really cost any more than wfb models now I don't think price is really an issue, if you're talking about the original lotr game it was what got me into the Gw hobby in the first place, and Id probably not be playing either of the other two core systems if I hadn't picked up a FotR boxed set all those years ago. From that perspective lotr was a positive thing for GWs other ranges, on the other hand, the Hobbit is so horrendously overcosted now I'm not sure its even viable as an entry point for GWs other systems, so Id say the game as it currently is doesn't have any effect either way.

Azzaphox
13-03-2013, 23:06
if you're talking about the original lotr game it was what got me into the Gw hobby in the first place

There you go.. no further explanation needed.
LOTR a gateway drug to full WHFB

IcedCrow
14-03-2013, 13:22
I always hear how great the LOTR system is. I wish GW would broaden their horizon with those rules and apply it to Warhammer somehow. Perhaps do an update of Mordheim with those rules. I think that'd help draw in new players or keep barely invested people like me in who simply don't have enough time for full-scale games.

If anything might be hurting GW's sales right now, its probably Privateer Press games. On Bartertown, I see that as the most common trend - people trading/selling their GW stuff for Warmachine/Hordes. That game just seems more accessible due to the size it runs. Models are arguably more expensive than GW's too.

That will depend on your area. In my area, out of the five or six stores that carry this hobby, only one carries warmachine because there is no demand for it (which I am thankful for as I am not a fan of that game, cyberpunk settings, or skirmish-level games)

HOWEVER - you do make a great point - the size it runs. It seems from observation that as every year passes, as older players phase out and newer players pick this up, that the desire for smaller and smaller games grows where I believe skirmish-level games are or have become the default and something akin to a 2000 point warhammer fantasy game is "too big" or "too much to deal with".

gorenut
14-03-2013, 22:18
That will depend on your area. In my area, out of the five or six stores that carry this hobby, only one carries warmachine because there is no demand for it (which I am thankful for as I am not a fan of that game, cyberpunk settings, or skirmish-level games)

HOWEVER - you do make a great point - the size it runs. It seems from observation that as every year passes, as older players phase out and newer players pick this up, that the desire for smaller and smaller games grows where I believe skirmish-level games are or have become the default and something akin to a 2000 point warhammer fantasy game is "too big" or "too much to deal with".

I think anywhere that Magic The Gathering or games like HeroClix are popular, you'll find Warmachine/Hordes players too. As I understand the game.. a lot of their games kind of run like Magic the Gathering, setting up combos and such. I've definitely talked to more people who quit GW for PP rather than the other way around (though a decent population does both). I haven't gotten into PP stuff because I'm not a huge fan of the setting. Also, when i got back into the miniatures hobby, I got back into it with my girlfriend and she insisted on starting any form of Lizardmen. So Mordheim is the game we went with. One thing I always do hear though.. is how almost every major system out there runs better than 40k and WHFB.. but I suppose you can have cool rules if you're playing on a smaller scale.

Totally agree with you though on the size. I remember back in highschool when I played 2nd ed 40k (I'm 31 now).. we played 2,000-4,000 point games that would last entire nights. We just ordered pizza and spent the night at a friend's house. Now its like I have an hour or so for the hobby per week or 2 if I'm lucky and realistically its really just a part of having another hobby as "together time". I'm not sure if I'd even be back into the hobby if it weren't for my girlfriend as most my friends are long out of it.

Plexi
15-03-2013, 04:30
I think the game is awful, but the models are decent and actually look realistic as opposed to the typical crap that GW pushes out now, so I use them for some stuff in my WE army. The best thing that can be said about the game is that it gave GW the opportunity to fine tune their plastic technology. Other than that it was a flop.

Rake
15-03-2013, 14:20
Thats funny. Our gaming group is slowly moving away from fantasy (the abandoned 40K en masse a little before the edition changed) into LoTR. Mostly is because the game plays as advertised. The heroes are heroes, the useful units are the pretty ones and as a result the game is much more cohesive. The individual duels also let you see the battlefield flow and change in a realistic way. Unfortunately in Fantasy what you see is blocks of troops, little flanking, insane magic and heroes being the wet noodles... I guess that ultimately got to a lot of them.
On the other hand we have made a serious effort to keep the game fun, and fluffy. Taking sub optimal choices and running with it the way it was meant to run, not the way the rules ultimately lead you to. But as a whole I think our experience is an anomaly. I would expect a lot of people to move into LoTR cause its familiar and then move from LotR to Warhammer as that becomes familiar as well.

Rake
15-03-2013, 14:25
Deleted. Double post.