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Camman1984
13-03-2013, 14:36
Are there any examples of chapters/companies that have turned traitor but are nothing to do with chaos? Maybe in a similar way to the pirate red corsairs but without the chaos worship.

childsoldier
13-03-2013, 17:06
It's been ages and ages since I read it, but in the Soul Drinker novels by Ben Counter weren't they traitors that hated the Chaos Gods still? Though iirc the Chapter Master turned into a spider or something, so maybe there was just a touch of Chaos there... Night Lords also retain a certain secularism and some aren't totally devoted to the Chaos Gods, likewise the Iron Warriors I believe. Think they're more anti-Imperial than pro-Chaos. That said, I may be completely wrong, but someone should be along to correct me shortly!

Freak Ona Leash
13-03-2013, 18:11
Adaaric Vaanes from McNeil's Ultramarines series was a Raven Guard captain who turned renegade. He fought both against and for Chaos, but seemed far more a mercenary than a worshipper. I presume most non-Chaos traitors would fall into that category: pirates and mercenaries with a tendency towards the less savory aspects of such a life. There was some Gav Thorpe stories in Heroes of the Space Marines and Legends of the Space Marines (I think) that detailed some Renegade Space Marines who were not Chaos worshippers.

aim
13-03-2013, 20:07
Alpha Legion origionally, maybe, its quite vague. Although I'm sure one of the Chaos players who is a little too behind their army will be along in a minute to tell you that I'm wrong and they were always secretly corrupted because Chaos is all corrupting and Tzeench secretly has the entire history of the universe planned out, including his defeats, just to throw people off.... Or something like that.

If you were asking with regards to making your own chapter fluff, then yeah, you probably could make a chapter go rogue without necisarily turning to Chaos, the easiest way to do that is probably a falling out with the big =][=.

However, eventually you will probably meet a person who has the aforementioned point of view on Chaos at some point who will have a bit of a go and throw his toys out of the pram that your marines couldn't possibly be rogue and not Chaos worshippers at the same time. They are your mini's at the end of the day, so if that happens, just smile, nod, ignore them and do what the heck you like :)

TheDungen
14-03-2013, 07:14
some of the fallen may count as well.

Hawkkf
14-03-2013, 22:51
There are plenty of renegade marine forces of various sizes that do not immediately turn to chaos. Either they get power hungry and try to forge thier own territory or they **** off someone in the inquisition or other position of power and manage to survive being purged. In any case the imperium sees any renegade marines the same way as they see chaos marines and attempt to exterminate them with extreme prejudice. This makes getting the huge amounts of specific supplies marines need very difficult to aquire. Most turn to piracy to survive, but its a slippery slope and eventually given enough time and desperation they will fall to the lure of chaos and the promise of supplies, power, and revenge. If the imperium recognized renegades seperately from chaos and had a method of them earning a place back in the imperium, it wouldn't be so bleak.. but eventually chaos wins out in the absence of other options.

Knifeparty
14-03-2013, 22:57
A lot of Marine Chapters fall renegade without turning to chaos. However since the imperium has free reign of normal space for the most part the only safe haven (if you want to call it safe) is inside the eye of terror. The problem with the eye of terror is that the longer you stay in it, the more corrupted you become. So even if you went against the imperium with no intentions of turning to chaos, sooner or later you just end up becoming tainted and corrupted.

Night Lords are a good example of this.

rwsChris
14-03-2013, 23:05
I believe the Relictors (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Relictors) fight Chaos by using chaos artifacts. This hasn't gone over well.

09Project
15-03-2013, 03:08
Knights of Blood
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Knights_of_Blood

BA successor, renegade due to going OTT but still loyal to the BA and the Emporer

Lothlanathorian
15-03-2013, 08:23
The Soul Drinkers went renegade due to manipulations by Tzeentch*. When they found out it was, IIRC, a Lord of Change manipulating things to get them to turn to Chaos, they turned on him and were, as of the second novel, non-aligned renegades fighting in the name of the Emperor, but, officially declared traitors.


*Their Librarian had visions and led them to turn on their Chapter Master. He thought he was granted vision from the Big E, but, it was the Big T, instead.

M@L@L
15-03-2013, 09:16
I believe the Relictors (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Relictors) fight Chaos by using chaos artifacts. This hasn't gone over well.

Thanks fudger, for remiding me of the Relictors, making me go read their background, and seeing them as good potential for a CSM army that uses as many undivided Chaos Artefacts as it can. :mad: And for making me ponder how to do sidefacing skulls en masse. You've made my waffling over which CSM army to take even worse!

Just to make it clear, I'm being ironic in my aggravation. >.>

Camman1984
15-03-2013, 13:29
Thanks for the input, still thinking of fleshing out my custom chapter

Idomeneus
16-03-2013, 13:49
Flame Falcons/Legion of the Damned could be placed in this category. Space Wolves would have been declared renegade millenia ago if it weren't for the problems it would cause what with a whole bunch of raging astartes no longer bound by loyalty to the Imperium.

Vmartini
17-03-2013, 10:49
The previous 2 chaos marine codexes have said that once a marine is free from the restraints of the Imperium they drift towards Chaos as they seek new experiances for their enhanced bodies and minds.

So yes, but not for long.

spaghettyhoop
17-03-2013, 11:07
A lot of chapters in the badab war were probably this to start with. If I remember it all rightly didnt the astral claws rebel just because they wanted to go way over the 1k marine limit and build a whole legion? The chapters that supported them (executioners and mantis warriors are the ones I remember) did not turn to chaos, although they did become loyal again at the end of the war.

My point supports what other people are saying though, that for quite a while the astral claws were renegade but had nothing to do with chaos, it wasnt untill they returned from fleeing at the end of the badab war they had aligned to chaos, which supports the point of "even if you dont intend to, turning renegade you end up loyal to chaos anyway"

eutambem
17-03-2013, 11:48
not exactly renegades but the 13th space wolves are just beasts tearing things apart wherever they are said to go. they are related to warp only because they are chasing enemy within and rarely seen out of the eye.
relictors are, for me the best example. non chaos worshippers using any weapon they find useful to fight it.

MisterCyto
23-03-2013, 10:13
In terms of the Relictors, lexicanum has them as being declared traitors during the 13th black crusade, however I can find no specific mention of this happening, and it seems that whoever wrote the piece "assumed" they were declared traitors. Having read Architect of Fate A group of Relictors are sent down onto a planet and make there way towards a city. Here they are jumped by chaos marines, whome they valiantly fight off, and the story ends with the Relictors captain about to kill some crazy psycher, however the psycher manages to trap everyone in a time loop of some sort. It's rather confusing, considering there's a detail of Grey Knights on a nearby ship captained by the father of the psycher with a deamon on board.

So yeah, it seems they weren't declared traitors, at least from what I can see, though they are pretty close to being so; and they most definitely still fight chaos and are loyal top the Emperor.

Captain VJ Dax
23-03-2013, 18:14
i believe if you would look up the Badab War, you would find a good example of Loyalists V Traitors while at the same time not being Imperials V Chaos.

baphomael
23-03-2013, 19:35
Yea, there are examples of non chaos renegades. The entire badab war focuses on that.

Having said that, the Chaos codex emphasises that renegade marines will, more than likely, end up drifting into the servitude of chaos - whether intentionally or not. Given free reign they will end up in a bad place.

Very few renegade and traitor marines deliberately turn to Chaos but find themselves there. The original traitor legions didnt turn against the Imperium because they decides chaos was a better idea (well, apart from the word bearers who were quite happy they discovered real, actual, gods). Even most of the post heresy loyalists that turn to chaos do so by accident rather that premeditated choice (the Crimson Slaughter, the Astral Claws, pretty much the entire Abyssal Crusade etc).

What makes chaos so insidious and dangerous is that often you don't realise your falling until you've already hit rock bottom, then its too late. Chaos is at its most dangerous when its the "path of good intentions" rather than the whispered promises of daemons.

Its for this reason Xanthite inquisitors, or the Relictors chapter, cause so much worry... using the tools of the enemy against them? Seems pragmatic... except thats akin to eating highly irradiated food - you might feel hungry and need the nutrition might help, but keep doing it and your hair and teeth will start falling out. The corruption of Chaos is very much like radiation poisoning... being exposed to too much for too long is going to cause irreperable damage. Its this reason knowledge of chaos, or the grey knights, is so brutally restricted.

So yea, non chaos renegades are possible... but the chances of them staying that way are stacked. The Ruinous Powers always find a way, whether intricately subtle or blatantly obvious. Either way... they'll get ya.