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Vipoid
16-03-2013, 18:43
Let's say I have a character attached to a unit. The character has regeneration, but the unit doesn't.

In the shooting phase, I first fire a weapon with flaming attacks at the unit, and manage to do at least 1 wound.

Now, I want to snipe the character, but with a weapon that isn't flaming.

Has the character lost regeneration, because his unit took a wound from a flaming attack?

kefkah
16-03-2013, 19:28
I would say yes. As it is worded now, if the unit has taken a wound from a flamming source, the reg is lost, even if only the characters had regeneration. Since he is part of that unit, i would say yes he will lose reg.

Now im not 100 % sure, basing it on this

Characters in a unit, combined units page 99 BRB

"Whilst a character is part of a unit, he and that unit are treated as a single combined unit for all rule purposes, save those listed below".

One is moving, other cc, and third shooting. That pharagraph is only about the cant be hit from bs shooting if there is 5 rnk in it and for LOS rolls.

The rule for reg is if that unit has taken a wound from a flamming source, reg is lost for that phase.

So yeah no reg for him imo.

T10
17-03-2013, 18:46
The Regeneration special rule seems to assmue that Regeneration is a unit-wide rule.

However: If the /unit/ suffers an unsaved Wound from a Flaming Attack, then the /unit/ loses the Regeneration special rule for the rest of the phase. There is no stipulation that the models wounded must have the Regeneration special rule for this penalty to take effect.

On the other hand, it also seems that all shooting attacks made by the same unit are "simultaneous", meaning that a non-Flaming Sniper shot from the same unit with the Flaming Attacks shot would still be subject to a Regeneration saving throw.

-T10

Kalandros
17-03-2013, 19:43
I wounded Throgg with a Firestorm Blade. The player claimed his trolls kept regeneration, I disagreed and he tried to find in the rulebook something that agreed with him and he couldn't.

If its in the same unit, the entire unit, characters included, will lose Regeneration for the rest of the phase if there was one unsaved Flaming wound regardless of which model in that unit loses that wound.

SanDiegoSurrealist
19-03-2013, 22:13
It follows the same rules as if a character fighting in a challenge is hit with a flaming attack if he is in a unit with regeneration, the entire unit, characters included, will lose Regeneration for the rest of the phase if there was one unsaved Flaming wound inflicted.

But you could argue that flaming attacks happen in initiative order, so if flaming attack had ASL, for some reason, only that wound would be considered flaming.

T10 - Could you please site a source/pg # where is states that all shooting happens simultaneously.

T10
20-03-2013, 07:10
No. I said "seems", which is to say that the rules have given me that impression. It does not state one way or the other. It's almost as if the writers did not think that things might happen /during/ a unit's shooting.

Symrivven
20-03-2013, 10:36
There is no mechanism that tracks time or allows shooting in a unit to happen at different moments or sequentially (like initiative in close combat does). Thus it indeed appears that shooting in a unit all happens at the same time.
If not a whole new range of problems would appear, for example:
Shoot with half your unit (or one model at a time)at a target to reduce this target to 5 models, then shoot the other half (or what's left) in the hopes of allocating shots to the character in the unit.

Azzaphox
20-03-2013, 12:18
Sounds a bit gamey to me.
I would suggest that if the character took a wound then sure they loose regen.
However if the unit took the wound and the character was not hit I dont see why they should loose regen.
Given that the flame did not damage the character I think it is a bit harsh they are affected by it.

gorblud
20-03-2013, 12:40
No. I said "seems", which is to say that the rules have given me that impression. It does not state one way or the other. It's almost as if the writers did not think that things might happen /during/ a unit's shooting.

Though in the close combat phase they say that if you resolve the BSB combat before any other, and the BSB dies, the other units won't get reroll. Doesn't matter if the unit fighting the BSB have always strike last.

So it seems that the unit you choose to shoot first, shoots first.

T10
20-03-2013, 13:00
Also, I the point I was making was about all of a unit's shooting being resolved simultaneously. The rules require that you take Panic tests immediately if you suffer 25% casualties, meaning it is quite possible for unit to flee during the shooting phase before the next unit gets to shoot.

I don't think it is practical to resolve each individual shot, one at a time, until sufficient casualties have been caused to trigger a panic test, and if the unit flees to a new position resolve the rest of the unit's shooting accordingly. Thus: It seems that all shooting attacks made by the same unit are "simultaneous".

-T10

gorblud
20-03-2013, 15:03
Oh, I thought you meant all shooting by every unit was shot simultaneously.

Then I agree with you, a regen should be allowed from the sniper, but not other units that shoots after the first.

Vipoid
20-03-2013, 15:40
Oh, I thought you meant all shooting by every unit was shot simultaneously.

Then I agree with you, a regen should be allowed from the sniper, but not other units that shoots after the first.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean here.

SanDiegoSurrealist
20-03-2013, 18:11
Troll unit gets hit with a flaming cannon ball from the runed up Dwarf Cannon. Takes 3 wounds and Regeneration is lost for the rest of the shooting phase, Throgg included if he is in the unit, even if he did not get hit directly.
Next a unit of 10 Dwarf Thunderers unload on that same unit of trolls the cannon just hit, all their shoots would ignore regeneration as well. It carries on like this until all shooting is resolved.

gorblud
20-03-2013, 21:41
I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean here.

Never mind, just ignore me