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Vipoid
23-03-2013, 17:44
One of my friends recently found this faq:

Q: Does a weapon that gives a bonus to a characteristic only give
that bonus when being used to attack a model?(p4)
A: Most weapons, including magic weapons, state when the
bonus is given. For example, a model with the Fencerís
Blades will always have Weapon Skill 10 whilst a model with
a great weapon will only have +2 Strength when striking an
enemy in close combat. When a weapon does not say when
the characteristic bonus applies, then it only applies when
striking, or being struck, in close combat.

He asked me if it meant that, in the case of Fencer's Blades, a model would have WS10 even if he was using a different magic weapon? i.e. the model only needs to be carrying fencer's blades to have WS10 all the time - it can use a different magic weapon in combat, whilst still benefiting from WS10.

Now, this seems wrong to me. But, especially with the above faq, I'm having trouble finding anything to prove him wrong.

Have I missed something, or is he correct about Fencer's Blades and similarly-worded weapons?

Mr_Rose
23-03-2013, 17:56
How would someone have the fencer's blades and another magic weapon in the first place?

Striking Distance
23-03-2013, 17:58
How would someone have the fencer's blades and another magic weapon in the first place?


DoC Gift chart can swap roll for items, could potentially carry to magical items but only select one to use when striking. Hence the above question is very relevant.

theunwantedbeing
23-03-2013, 18:02
You'de only get the effects of the weapon when using it.

Vipoid
23-03-2013, 18:07
You'de only get the effects of the weapon when using it.

I don't suppose you could quote the appropriate rule/faq?

Starblind
23-03-2013, 18:19
Similar thing, Sword of Swift Slaying says the weilder gets the "always strikes first" rule, whereas other weapons either say "The bearer" or "attacks made with this weapon". Now that Demons can potentially have two or three magic weapons on the same model, I think this FAQ is in some need of clarification.

Artinam
23-03-2013, 18:53
Bretonnians are even funkier then that. They can use a mundane lance when charging and then switch to their magic weapon in the second round of combat. Some weapons always work, including the sword of anti-heroes according to that FAQ, so the bonuses stack RAW.

But thats a different story.

DaemonReign
23-03-2013, 19:46
@ Vipoid: This is discussed over at the Daemonic Legion as well. It's yet Another 'fail' for this rules-set. The intent couldn't possibly be that Daemons get to stack effects from certain Magic Weapons, but RAW (the way it's laid out in the book) there's no good technical argument against it.
Seems extremely gamey to put it to use though. If we see a FAQ of this issue I'd definately guess theunwantedbeing's answer will stand.

Kalandros
23-03-2013, 21:07
I have added it to the Dire Wolf FAQ thread - we'll see if the thread-starter adds it to the list but it should be up there.
I have also added the discussion to both DL forums and Warseer tactica thread.

decker_cky
23-03-2013, 22:00
Mmmmmm....Lord of Change with Wand of Whimsy and Fencer's blades.

musical
23-03-2013, 22:47
Mmmmmm....Lord of Change with Wand of Whimsy and Fencer's blades.

For those of us who don't play daemon can you explain what the wand do.

theunwantedbeing
23-03-2013, 23:15
For those of us who don't play daemon can you explain what the wand do.

It makes him awesome :P

decker_cky
23-03-2013, 23:50
For those of us who don't play daemon can you explain what the wand do.

Every time he successfully casts a spell, roll a die. On a 5+, he gains a charge. +1A and +1S for each charge. You don't lose the charges. And the weapon is one you can default to for 25 pts.

Starblind
24-03-2013, 13:05
Mmmmmm....Lord of Change with Wand of Whimsy and Fencer's blades.

Fencer's Blades and Wand of Whimsy are both "the bearer gains" weapons, if I recall correctly.

Mmmmmm....Lord of Change with Wand of Whimsy and Fencer's Blades and Sword of Swift Slaying.

DaemonReign
24-03-2013, 14:08
Fencer's Blades and Wand of Whimsy are both "the bearer gains" weapons, if I recall correctly.

Mmmmmm....Lord of Change with Wand of Whimsy and Fencer's Blades and Sword of Swift Slaying.

A fellow Daemon-player came up with the following combo:
Bloodthirster with:
Sword of Swift Slaying + Sword of Striking + Sword of Anti-Heroes.

Anybody needs their lawn mowed? :p

Until we get an FAQ this is RAW. Ridiculous but RAW I might add.

FatTrucker
24-03-2013, 21:16
Ridiculous much?, you can only use one magic weapon at a time and the one you're using is the one you get the benefit from. The rules say nothing about using multiple different magic weapons at once. Pretty sure its in the BRB that you can only take one magic weapon or one of each magic item type.

Vipoid
24-03-2013, 21:19
Ridiculous much?, you can only use one magic weapon at a time and the one you're using is the one you get the benefit from. The rules say nothing about using multiple different magic weapons at once. Pretty sure its in the BRB that you can only take one magic weapon or one of each magic item type.

Normally, yes - but the DoC army book changed that by allowing the same model to have multiple magic weapons.

RanaldLoec
24-03-2013, 21:29
Looks like Matt failed his ward save on this one.

FatTrucker
24-03-2013, 21:29
Not aware of anything in the DoC book that says they can use multiple magic weapons simultaneously. If people are using the random gift swap facility to take multiple different weapons where does it say more than one can be used at the same time?

RanaldLoec
24-03-2013, 21:32
Not aware of anything in the DoC book that says they can use multiple magic weapons simultaneously. If people are using the random gift swap facility to take multiple different weapons where does it say more than one can be used at the same time?

You can take a default item on every table all of which are weapons.


Some weapons give there bonus as a permanent buff not just when the weapons used.

Eg the fenders blades

decker_cky
24-03-2013, 22:04
Fencer's Blades and Wand of Whimsy are both "the bearer gains" weapons, if I recall correctly.

Mmmmmm....Lord of Change with Wand of Whimsy and Fencer's Blades and Sword of Swift Slaying.


A fellow Daemon-player came up with the following combo:
Bloodthirster with:
Sword of Swift Slaying + Sword of Striking + Sword of Anti-Heroes.

Anybody needs their lawn mowed? :p

Until we get an FAQ this is RAW. Ridiculous but RAW I might add.

You can only take a single gift once. Defaulting to take a weapon is a gift. Therefore you couldn't default to multiple 25 pt weapons.

Goblin Gonads
25-03-2013, 01:08
The demon book specifies that you can take the default option more than once and that you can take multiple magic weapons!

Piercefierce
25-03-2013, 02:17
Yeh guys seriously you CAN take more than one magic weapon it is clearly written In the daemon book. Lets move on. The op is a very interesting question indeed. I would say it is defiantly not rai but wouldn't be able to argue against it. It's funny I just posted something about how poorly written this book was on a different post and now here I am 1
minute later doing it again for a different reason no less.

selecta
25-03-2013, 07:00
You can take a default item on every table all of which are weapons.


Some weapons give there bonus as a permanent buff not just when the weapons used.

Eg the fenders blades

In the main rule says that you can only use one magic weapon per phase and daemon dont have access to magic weapons.

Kalandros
25-03-2013, 07:17
In the main rule says that you can only use one magic weapon per phase and daemon dont have access to magic weapons.
What are you saying?
Daemons have access to all the rulebook Magic Weapons plus their 9 own Magic Weapons AND basic demons have Magic Weapons in their equipment - bloodletters, plaguebearers, heralds..

dementian
25-03-2013, 12:14
I say yes. Likewise, with what was mentioned for bretonnian characters. Its just sometimes difficult seeing which weapons give their effect all the time and which are sometimes. The fencers blades was mentioned by gw but does that mean we can look for the same wording as fb on the other weapons to find others?

Starblind
25-03-2013, 12:52
I say yes. Likewise, with what was mentioned for bretonnian characters. Its just sometimes difficult seeing which weapons give their effect all the time and which are sometimes. The fencers blades was mentioned by gw but does that mean we can look for the same wording as fb on the other weapons to find others?

Sword of Anti-Heroes, Berserker Sword, and Shrieking Blade all use the same wording as Fencer's Blades: "The Bearer" gains an effect.
The three swords that grant bonus attacks and Sword of Swift Slaying use the wording: "The Wielder". All other weapons specify "attacks made with this weapon." RAW, and with the FAQ, the "bearer" ones are currently not really contestable, whether they -should- work or not. With "Wielder" being a different term, and one that implies usage, i'm not so sure. But at the end of the day, until a revised FAQ says otherwise, I think any arguement will come down to "these swords say the attacks must be made with them, and these ones don't."

DaemonReign
25-03-2013, 15:19
Sword of Anti-Heroes, Berserker Sword, and Shrieking Blade all use the same wording as Fencer's Blades: "The Bearer" gains an effect.
The three swords that grant bonus attacks and Sword of Swift Slaying use the wording: "The Wielder". All other weapons specify "attacks made with this weapon." RAW, and with the FAQ, the "bearer" ones are currently not really contestable, whether they -should- work or not. With "Wielder" being a different term, and one that implies usage, i'm not so sure. But at the end of the day, until a revised FAQ says otherwise, I think any arguement will come down to "these swords say the attacks must be made with them, and these ones don't."

There's a thread HERE (http://z7.invisionfree.com/wyrmling_x/index.php?showtopic=10471&st=0) that's way ahead of this one.