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budman
26-03-2013, 08:40
Battle for the abyss - it's better than you think.
It not well written true but I felt it was unimportant… one sin I can forgive both…
Reading Betrayer and what comes out from that I think may just redeem Battle for the abyss. and just how scary one of the king ships is and just how long Lorgar has been pulling strings.

malika
26-03-2013, 13:33
Just because it had that big ship in it, which for some reason got multiplied in Betrayer (and thereby making the Furious Abyss kind of redundant) doesn't mean the book was good. ;)

Xisor
26-03-2013, 16:28
Eh, I loosely agree with the conceit of the thread: BftA had some decent things going for it that're a shame to miss just because, overall, the book flounders severely.

In no particular order:
- Mhotep
- Skraal
- Brynngar's character arc (not necessarily his character - I don't especially care for drunken oaf Space Wolves)
- Decent & well-realised (and well-written) space battles

That the core is about a small unit of ultra-boring (and we know that's not a pre-requisite for) Ultramarines with ultra-boring (again, we know that's not a pre-requisite for) Word Bearers enemies. It's them that ruin the book - and given they take up the bulk of the space, it more or less ruins the appreciation of everything else too. The above still were very enjoyable though.

Asrai Syrion
26-03-2013, 18:02
Eh, I loosely agree with the conceit of the thread: BftA had some decent things going for it that're a shame to miss just because, overall, the book flounders severely.

In no particular order:
- Mhotep
- Skraal
- Brynngar's character arc (not necessarily his character - I don't especially care for drunken oaf Space Wolves)
- Decent & well-realised (and well-written) space battles

That the core is about a small unit of ultra-boring (and we know that's not a pre-requisite for) Ultramarines with ultra-boring (again, we know that's not a pre-requisite for) Word Bearers enemies. It's them that ruin the book - and given they take up the bulk of the space, it more or less ruins the appreciation of everything else too. The above still were very enjoyable though.

I quite agree

RadiO
26-03-2013, 23:48
I really liked the loyalist World Eaters squad. They're clearly on-side with the heroes, but really not very nice people. I love the way their squad leader is almost stymied when one of the villains calls him out for butchering the dock workers for no reason.
The big problem I had with the book is that it's kind of a shaggy dog story. If you compare, say, Nemesis - now, the assassins in that are clearly not going to kill Horus at the early-to-mid stages of the Heresy, yeah? I mean, that's not even a spoiler, they might as well have put that on the back cover. But Nemesis did a good job (IMO) of making how and why the assassination attempt fails, and its aftermath, genuinely interesting. I know a lot of people would disagree with that, but there you go. I liked it.
Battle for the Abyss, on the other hand: is the Enormous Frightening Killy Ship going to turn Macragge into a scorched glass ball, given that Macragge is still (in 40K) the capital of Ultramar (and presumably it having been bombarded during the Heresy by the biggest space warship in history would be a big deal, and would thus have been mentioned at some point -but it hasn't)? Clearly, no. It can't.
And how are our small force of heroes going to stop the Enormous Killy Ship, given how it's enormous, killy, and also has quite a few Word Bearers on board? Well, they shouldn't be able to do it, really, should they?
But the ship can't really reach Macragge and achieve anything there, either.
So we've got a massive, massive threat in the ship, that's actually too massive for the storyline as a whole, inside and outside the book, and thus has to be painted out of existance, by about ten guys or so, blowing up its reactors. It's a shame, because there's actually a lot of good things in the novel.

Ragnarfan_12
27-03-2013, 21:34
I actually quite like this book yes there are some majaor flaws but it was a good book deffeently not the worst in the series or as bad as a lot of people make it out to be

Nineswords
27-03-2013, 22:42
I'll be giving it a second read when it comes out in hardback. I wasn't overly enamoured with the first reading.

JWhex
07-04-2013, 22:47
The Battle for the Abyss was one of the worst books I have read in many, many decades of reading all kinds of literature. It was worse than even those old Doc Savage books that the author would crank out in an evening.

ORKY ARD BOYZ
08-04-2013, 02:20
Battle for the abyss - it's better than you think.
It not well written true but I felt it was unimportant… one sin I can forgive both…
Reading Betrayer and what comes out from that I think may just redeem Battle for the abyss. and just how scary one of the king ships is and just how long Lorgar has been pulling strings.

So the book's very method of portrayal is not well written, which is how we experience the entire story, yet that can be forgiven because it has king ships in it?

There's a difference between liking something on a personal level and acknowledging it's a good book, better than you think.

Void Reaper
08-04-2013, 03:35
@RadiO: You've excellently summarized the book's problems, well done!

For me, the problem with the book was it was boring.

Black Library books can be many things---choppily written, implausibly plotted, populated by wooden characters, or massively overblown (many/most of them are at least one of those things), but they absolutely mustn't be boring, because if they are boring, there will be nothing to distract you from the shortcomings common to the publisher.

Ramius4
08-04-2013, 14:40
It not well written true but I felt it was unimportant.

Wait. Let me get this straight. You're admitting that a book was not well written, but that is somehow unimportant to how good people think it is?

LOL!

PS. Every single Horus Heresy book in the series I have read within a 3 to 7 day time period, depending on my free time. Except for... You guessed it, Battle for the Abyss. I had to read that book over several months because it was so painfully bad. I came very close to literally putting it down and not finishing it. Ever.

budman
08-04-2013, 15:33
Wait. Let me get this straight. You're admitting that a book was not well written, but that is somehow unimportant to how good people think it is?

LOL!

PS. Every single Horus Heresy book in the series I have read within a 3 to 7 day time period, depending on my free time. Except for... You guessed it, Battle for the Abyss. I had to read that book over several months because it was so painfully bad. I came very close to literally putting it down and not finishing it. Ever.

Unimportant to the Heresy was my point, it that it had no point and now it does
So Yay!

Ramius4
08-04-2013, 16:59
Unimportant to the Heresy was my point, it that it had no point and now it does
So Yay!

We'll have to agree to disagree then. BftA could have a dozen more such links to other stories and I would still find it a pointless and badly written book.

A Shadow
08-04-2013, 23:11
While I did find Abyss to be the least interesting Heresy novel so far, for me it had a couple of nice features. The comparison between the Word Bearers (a rather large loss of discipline and actively plotting to kill each other) and the others (Wolves HATED the Mhotep and yet were still able to work together) was a nice way of showing how badly the Bearers had fallen. And the presence of loyalist traitors I enjoyed

FlashGordon
09-04-2013, 15:32
I agree that it is better than most people give it credit for. I have several explanations for that:

1st. It is a giant leap into the future where tha bad guys are already corrupted beyond doubt(i actually had the same kind of problem with Flight of the Eisenstein, Grulgor was superevil from the first page he appeared in).

2nd. No primarchs. We have up to this point been spoiled with the appearance of Primarches everywhere(and they are some of the most interresting parts of the Heresy, don't deny it).

3d. It was after Legion. A really good book with lots of new backround, twin primarch hell yeah! Cabal, woah! etc.

4th. It is actually one of the weaker books, but it is not as bad as you think, ;) i consider Nemesis much much worse.

blackcherry
09-04-2013, 17:23
Having just put this book down, I can comment quite well on the topic. At times its quite entertaining, but in a hilariously bad way. Ships with giants books attached to them! Super secret plans that cause so much destruction in their wake its amazing no-one noticed. A space wolf who pretty much a drunk Wolverine! How can that not be entertaining?

Thats the best way to look at it I think, though I suppose it does break the flow a bit when the rest of the series has been trying to take things seriously.

Andystarscream
13-04-2013, 15:51
Although not my favorite book it's ok, the problem i have with it is the stereotypical typecstes of the legion astartes e.g. drunken vikings , angry berserkers etc