PDA

View Full Version : Cultists as Beastmen?



M@L@L
27-03-2013, 02:53
Hey guys. So when I eventually settle on a legion to add my traitor guard and other LATD type troops to, I am thinking of throwing some Beastmen into the mix. I've always loved Beastmen, part due to my childhood love of Greek mythology. I will probably convert some Ogryns to serve as minotaurs, since the stats and size are about right for them.

Problem might be when it comes to doing the Beastmen. Mutants are no longer a legal part of chaos armies, as they went away along with Codex Eye of Terror. Now, with near every CSM unit able to take marks of chaos, one could easily bring the mutants back by having them modeled with mutations befitting their respective marks. Burly was the mutation for Beastmen in CEoT, which gave them plus one strength to an already hefty basic profile. Even with the mark of Khorne cultists don't even come close, but I do like the idea of beastmen representing Khorne marked cultists. Now I know I can go about this however I want since it's simply a matter of coutns as, but I was wondering if it might break any fluff taboos with them not being quite as resilient as the Beastmen we know and love.

I did think of one solution, which is to not consider the Beastman cultists the purview of Khornate forces, and have the Khorne ones instead be s certain "breed" of beastmen. Bloodgors would be the Khornate Beastmen. Tzaangor would be the Tzeentchian Beastmen, maybe with either a shamanistic look, or armor like the old Tzaangor (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tzaangor#.UVJOVTfcAf4) models to represent their invulnerable save. Plaguegor would obviously be Nurgle beastmen, with furry pot bellies bearing boils, and the resilience of "proper" beastmen, while the uh... Slaangor would be the Slaaneshi beastmen, probably with heightened animal senses. Just make them Catgirls. :|

Anyways, if anyone else has some thoughts on Beastmen in chaos forces, be it the fluff side, or the mechanics side, drop a few lines. :)

Dr.Clock
27-03-2013, 03:08
Yeah... I was thinking of doing something very similar down the road, once my existing Khorne forces are finished off.

Basically, stats have deflated significantly... if you think about it, in the 40k universe, S4 is essentially punching people with the force of a bolt shell... WS/BS/S/T/I 4 all represent something significantly above the level of even a professional soldier.

IMO, khorne-marked cultists represent beastmen perfectly. They are feral beasts. It makes sense that they get by basically on sheer ferocity, but won't necessarily stand up for long against all the other madness the galaxy has to offer.

WRT minotaurs: Spawn. They actually have decent rules, for once. Stick a jugger lord with them, and you're off to the races (literally... they are a fast unit).

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

FashaTheDog
27-03-2013, 03:10
Unless you wish to enter Forgeworld then that is probably best. Call the Mark of Khorne Cultists Ungors, or Khornungors or something. However, if Forgeworld looks appealing to you then I suggest Imperial Armor Volume , Siege of Vraks Part II. In it is the Servants of Slaughter list which is Khornate Guard and one of the Troops choices is...wait for it...Beastmen! You also can take Ogryn Berserkers as Elites, perfect for counts as Minotaurs.

And just for the record, Catgirl Cultists would be spectacular to see in large swarms!

Oboc
27-03-2013, 03:11
I would love to see some beastmen as cultists on the table top. (Maybe not with autoguns tough)
They were always there in the fluff, and I don't think its an issue they are not as tough (just argue modern weaponry is more advanced, and none of them wear any clothes as protection)
In the 2nd ed codex imperialis if I'm not mistaken there are actually a beastman or 2 hanging in the illustration for cultists, so I would even go as far as fielding both in a mob, looks even more chaotic than just one group of dudes who all happen to look the same methinks

M@L@L
27-03-2013, 03:29
Yeah... I was thinking of doing something very similar down the road, once my existing Khorne forces are finished off.

Basically, stats have deflated significantly... if you think about it, in the 40k universe, S4 is essentially punching people with the force of a bolt shell... WS/BS/S/T/I 4 all represent something significantly above the level of even a professional soldier.

IMO, khorne-marked cultists represent beastmen perfectly. They are feral beasts. It makes sense that they get by basically on sheer ferocity, but won't necessarily stand up for long against all the other madness the galaxy has to offer.

WRT minotaurs: Spawn. They actually have decent rules, for once. Stick a jugger lord with them, and you're off to the races (literally... they are a fast unit).

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

I did ponder the Spawn for Minotaurs, but also steered away from that on account of the mutation bit. I might look at the rules again and se if I can't make it work, though. Thanks for making me reconsider. ^^

M@L@L
02-04-2013, 01:42
I've settled on the Cultists for Beastmen. Mark of Khorne of course, as a lot of the fluff on 40k Beastmen makes mention of their bloodlust. I looked at the Spawn as Minotaurs idea and couldn't really make it work for me. I pondered something like cybernetic enhancements to represent their randomly generated abilities, but the poison one felt unthematic, and the armor save made little sense if those armor plates have to actually be in effect from a random roll.

Main reason I am actually going with this is the little mention in the Cultist writeup of abhumans throwing in their lot with chaos to seek salvation from their constant persecution, so Beastmen would be a good fit for such cultists.

As for the army itself, I am going with a full 6 35 man squads of them, each of them consisting of Beastmen of varying shapes and sizes. The implication in the 40k fluff is that while a stable form of abhuman, they don't all look the same like Ogryns, Squats and Ratlings do. In fact, their inclusion in the WD 303 article actually points out that the least mutated sorts are the only ones that are levied in guard armies, while goat headed, hooved, or horned ones are purged. So there will be a mix of horns, goat legs and goat faces in each squad, but to make each Champion standout, they will be the only ones who are full on Gors.

It's just a shame there aren't more non-marine choices in CSM aside from the Daemon engines and spawn, but as stated, I am already pondering some guard allies in future, especially Ogryns for Minotaurs.

Chem-Dog
02-04-2013, 02:12
Now I know I can go about this however I want since it's simply a matter of coutns as, but I was wondering if it might break any fluff taboos with them not being quite as resilient as the Beastmen we know and love.

Beastmen were only marginally more resilient than standard humans and that was in a system that allowed for much greater variation, so I really don't see how it would be a fluff-breaker to include Beastmen (or goat-headed mutants) using the Cultist rules, think of it as the rules we have now simply lacking the resolution to discern the small differences between Beastmen and Humans and thus they all "look" the same through a 40K6Ed screen.

As for Minotaurs...it's a tricky one in the C:CSM, you could go overboard and consider them as DP's or even possibly as a Maulerfiend. Not particularly satisfactory, but short of having them stand in for something in Power Armour, that's the best I can come up with without using Allies.

M@L@L
02-04-2013, 02:31
Beastmen were only marginally more resilient than standard humans and that was in a system that allowed for much greater variation, so I really don't see how it would be a fluff-breaker to include Beastmen (or goat-headed mutants) using the Cultist rules, think of it as the rules we have now simply lacking the resolution to discern the small differences between Beastmen and Humans and thus they all "look" the same through a 40K6Ed screen.

As for Minotaurs...it's a tricky one in the C:CSM, you could go overboard and consider them as DP's or even possibly as a Maulerfiend. Not particularly satisfactory, but short of having them stand in for something in Power Armour, that's the best I can come up with without using Allies.

I considered a DP as a bull headed Beastman that ascended to Daemonhood as the one and only Minotaur, given as PA for DPs is optional, now.

jason_sation
02-04-2013, 05:08
I wanted to run a traitor list with Beastmen using the Penal Legion units as beast men and regular troops as the rest of the rabble.

Lord Squidar
02-04-2013, 07:27
why not use minotaurs as mutilators, similar size and you can say the 2+ armour is from metalic skin or something, the brass bulls of khorne!

djhowitzer
02-04-2013, 11:41
search in the modeling painting and terrain tale of 40k gamers for djc. see his 3500 points of beastguard.

dangerboyjim
02-04-2013, 18:08
I want to see a minatour with an autogun.

I have long considered dipping into chaos and have each unit as its own identity, basically an aspiring champion has pulled together whatever forces he can get, a mob of cultists, a gang of abhumans, a sorceror with rubric marine bodyguards, etc.

With some very minor conversion work this guy would make champion for the unit, or a sorceror attached to it: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440108a&prodId=prod1250027a (assuming you've gone for ungors)

The way I see it the beastmen aren't feral beasts, but persecuted imperial citizens, angry warp tainted horned psycopaths, but still wearing clothes and using imperium level technology so I would kitbash ungors with cadians so they've got flak jackets and lasguns.

Inquisitor Kallus
02-04-2013, 18:14
Bloodgor (Khorne themed Beastmen) are a unit in one of the Vraks books that you could use

mrtn
06-04-2013, 09:44
Anyone wanting to see beastmen in space should check out the Intergalactic Planetary of the Beast (http://z8.invisionfree.com/herdstone/index.php?showtopic=24736) by mayajid on the Herdstone, they're seriously awesome.

M@L@L
06-04-2013, 16:23
Can't help but wonder why so many people seem to use counts as Space Wolves for their unique armies. >.>

Nice looking models, mind. For the army I have planned, I was considering a twenty first founding chapter of marines as the CSM side of the army, who have a unique mutation which causes them to sprout horns and a few more subtle bestial traits. Think marines with ungor heads, rather than Gor heads. That could give the army a more unified feel, but without having to rely on strictly non-marine units to make it seem like a true Beastman army.

talthar
07-04-2013, 09:53
Hope I'mnot showing any ignorance here but unless you're playing in a tournament or your opponent is a stickler for WYSIWYG, can't you just say "These Beastmen are cultists,"? I wouldn't object to it; matter of fact I would think it was pretty cool to face a unit of space-beasties.

Chem-Dog
07-04-2013, 16:35
Can't help but wonder why so many people seem to use counts as Space Wolves for their unique armies. >.>

Nice looking models, mind. For the army I have planned, I was considering a twenty first founding chapter of marines as the CSM side of the army, who have a unique mutation which causes them to sprout horns and a few more subtle bestial traits. Think marines with ungor heads, rather than Gor heads. That could give the army a more unified feel, but without having to rely on strictly non-marine units to make it seem like a true Beastman army.


I'm confused, I thought you ere looking at using "Beastman" as a Chaos Cultist, not as Marines. Chaos marines is just easy, give CSM's a goat head.... No fluff violation there, it's just default Chaos mutation fun, possibly even deliberate surgical alteration. :confused:

M@L@L
08-04-2013, 02:22
I'm confused, I thought you ere looking at using "Beastman" as a Chaos Cultist, not as Marines. Chaos marines is just easy, give CSM's a goat head.... No fluff violation there, it's just default Chaos mutation fun, possibly even deliberate surgical alteration. :confused:

Oh, yeah, that's still the idea, using beastmen as cultists. Guess a litle later down the line I thought about more beastman style units for the army. And suppose it could be simple chaos mutation on the marines, rather than anything too fluffy.