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View Full Version : who can war machine fire at in 8th



fdestroca
28-03-2013, 01:50
hi

i want to believe that i get a free 360 pivot with my great cannon and fire even at a dragon that lurked in its back in same turn , really do , but when i read it all together (who can be targetted in shooting section, how to shoot war machines section , and same for canon section) it just seems ambiguous to the point I cant.
I dont know if it was influence of the 2 guys im starting to play with (both elves, one dark , other high; both hate their bolt throwers (And dont seem to use them) and fear the canon a lot) they convinced me straight ahead by showing all the parts of the book, i had to have the target in the front arc to be able to get that free pivot, now im getting to talk to the community around here (which im trying to play with but fantasy is pretty dead, warmachine is more the thing ) wargaming really small in these parts( but fortunately there is this small forum and ill be able to get some games), and it seems all this community accepts the free pivot at 360 no matter what

so im being played by elves?

just wanted to be showned through rules so i could understand and so i could spat in their faces :|

thank you and sorry for reviving old threads :P tthats why i opened this one

VampireOrcElf
28-03-2013, 04:42
Warmachines may pivot on the spot for free it doesnt count as a movement Pg. 109 shooting with warmachines

VampireOrcElf
28-03-2013, 04:44
Also there is nothing in the book saying you cant pivot if they are not in your forward arc that is just BS

yeknoMehT
28-03-2013, 09:34
I'm 99.9% certain that there is nothing that requires you to be able to 'see' your target before you pivot. That is a requirement in many other games (the one that comes to mind here is Flames of War) but not in warhammer fantasy.

It's an easy mistake to make, assuming that some level of realism might be incorporated into the rules, but that is by no means a substitute for actual rules...

The free pivot you get with a warmachine can point you anywhere - it has nothing to do with your target that you may or may not declare later. You could, if you wish point it directly away from everything, if you were suitably insane.

To my mind if it was something that you wanted to house rule, fine - not a problem - just make sure you sort it out before the game!

On another note, I'm not sure why the hate for elf bolt throwers - nice high BS and plenty of things to keep chaff off them (eagles, harpies etc).

danny-d-b
28-03-2013, 10:04
yer we had that happen recently when a guy ambushed a beast heard at the side of my empire- the issue was that was the side with my helblaster on it

turn helbalaster, open fire, wait for smoke to clear, 12 dead gor the remaining 8 fled the way they came in

fdestroca
28-03-2013, 11:09
so this is a clear rule in which ppl are mostly in favour of?

so i can direct my elf friends into this links and be sure they dont mess me around more...
cause this allowed a 50 point eagle to humiliate my 120 canon :P

yeknoMehT
28-03-2013, 11:25
While such an approach is usually far from ideal - in this case it is probably a matter of asking them to find the rule that restricts how you can pivot your warmachines (it was originally supposed to be in the movement phase, having absolutely nothing to do with the shooting phase, but was errata'd I think to happen in the shooting phase, just to avoid the error trap of forgetting to pivot). If they cannot show you a rule or errata that says you can only pivot to face something in your forward arc, you're good to go.

If they can point to it, I suspect it might be written on in crayon.

vorthrax
28-03-2013, 14:06
Also, warmachines do not have front, side, and rear arcs (in 8th edition).

Lord Inquisitor
28-03-2013, 14:34
I think the cannon rules make it more clear:

"Remember that war machines are allowed to pivot in the Shooting phase, the better to bring your chosen target into the weapon's line of sight."

AntaresCD
28-03-2013, 16:55
On another note, I'm not sure why the hate for elf bolt throwers - nice high BS and plenty of things to keep chaff off them (eagles, harpies etc).
You pay 100 points (for HE) for a BS-based warmachine with Strength 6 or 6 shots at Strength 4. Since it's BS based (with BS 4) your base to hit is 3s, but you frequently have at least -1, if not more. So at the typical 4+ to hit, you have a 50/50 chance to even hit, and against monsters with toughness 5 or 6 you have only a 67% or 50% chance respectively of wounding and netting d3 wounds... Compare that to a cannon. Also, with the change in 8th edition for crew, the bolt throwers have only 2 wounds now. Each of these points make them overcosted in most player's books, both pretty much guarantees it.

TL;DR: Only 2 wounds, BS-based (i.e. can miss much more frequently than cannons), and only Str 6, d3 Wounds, but still costs more or similar to cannons (depending on which cannon).

fdestroca
29-03-2013, 06:59
I think the cannon rules make it more clear:

"Remember that war machines are allowed to pivot in the Shooting phase, the better to bring your chosen target into the weapon's line of sight."

i think think thats where they got me , not bieng english native speakers m they are telling me "the better to bring" is to bring into line of sight , so it wasnt htere before while im telilng them its just na expression meaning "so that u dont point ur cannon west and fire east...

Orion_76
29-03-2013, 13:06
i think think thats where they got me , not bieng english native speakers m they are telling me "the better to bring" is to bring into line of sight , so it wasnt htere before while im telilng them its just na expression meaning "so that u dont point ur cannon west and fire east...

Well, tell them to improve their english and stop cheating. You wouldn't happen to be from Spain by any chance now, would you?

fdestroca
29-03-2013, 13:29
im from portugal :D