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Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 10:48
Hi everyone !
Im thinking of starting to build a Horus Heresy army , where do you begin ? Where can I find rules ?
Is The Horus heresy book something I will really need ?
Which Imperial Armour should I really take a look at ?
I have seen a lot of building logs here and they are pretty awesome - I will be very thankful for support and answers

Kijamon
31-03-2013, 10:55
If you want to do a legion list from the crusade or if you want to do a world eaters, emperor's children, sons of horus or death guard legion army then yes, Betrayal is a must buy.

If you're keen to do any other legion I would hold off another few months before buying the book, at least until after the next Heresy book hits (presumably in September) to see if they include the legion lists in each book.

Imperial Armour is for 40k, everything that you can pick in the Betrayal book for a legion list features the full rules in the book so you won't need those.

Captain Denarius
31-03-2013, 12:25
I would highly recommend Betrayal, it is an amazing book. In terms of its layout and presentation, it's above and beyond any codex or rule book.

At this point in time, it's also the only source of the Great Crusade Legion Army list, with four legion and a Mechanicum appendix.

Still Standing
31-03-2013, 12:47
In terms of models you can't go wrong with buying 20 bolter armed Marines. These are the core of the Legion list. Don't give them special weapons, just leave them with bolters.

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 14:53
Okey great guys , I will look forward to September then :)

I have seen these great figures (MHII in my case) and have been searching the web but it has been hard to really find out just where to start
Then again a noob question - Im all in for the Empire so will probably go for the Legion list etc , but how about the others - sons of Horus etc , are they more like chaos or what ?

Im collecting and playing Black Templars right now and they seem to be originated from this period - would that be a possibility to build around the fluff and swap miniatures to represent Black Templars but still use correct rules from Horus Heresy ??
A lot of questions and Thanks guys (girls?) for answering

Still Standing
31-03-2013, 14:57
All of the lists in Betrayal are more or less Loyalist in style. They only just beginning the route towards possession and damnation. You can make loyalist and traitor lists, and they look exactly the same.

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 15:39
All of the lists in Betrayal are more or less Loyalist in style. They only just beginning the route towards possession and damnation. You can make loyalist and traitor lists, and they look exactly the same.

Ooh really , so if i mix in shields BT-style and things that you could recognize from them - then Its alright ?

Whats the big difference from usual 40K ? the use of more good looking miniatures from lets say FW (Contemptor Dread , Spartan Assault Tank etc) ??

Kijamon
31-03-2013, 15:47
Ooh really , so if i mix in shields BT-style and things that you could recognize from them - then Its alright ?

Whats the big difference from usual 40K ? the use of more good looking miniatures from lets say FW (Contemptor Dread , Spartan Assault Tank etc) ??

There's a lot of differences in squads and specialism. Tactical squads don't exist and instead you have special squads of guys that all have special weapons. Minor touches like that sort of show that the legions were split in to units that did one job really well and were not a be all and end all design.

It's difficult to say what the average player would say if you used GW 40k kits and just used the legion rules for them.

Personally I'd be split on it, 30k is something that deserves that little bit extra attention. Though maybe that's just me being a snob because I'll have spent 2 or 3 times as much money on my army to make it authentic than someone who just used GW kits. If you heavily converted them rather than just paint them as normal then I'd be less inclined to be whiny.

On the other hand I do have 10 tartaros pattern terminators that were obviously designed before the Heresy book was designed, they have aquillas on the chest of them. So really I should be filing those off but if I do that I might make a meal of it and wind up with a rather expensive ruined squad of terminators...

So like I said, difficult to say.

Gaargod
31-03-2013, 16:04
Get the Betrayal book. It's a very very nice book, and if you're going to be playing with the rules, you really should buy it.

Currently the generic 'Legion' list works fine. It's really quite customisable - especially with Rites of War, you can field a variety of armies. Well, I mean, they're all gonna be marines, but you know. There are a couple of choices that won't earn you any friends if you want to use them in normal 40k (obviously, Lords of War, i.e. superheavies and primarchs, are out. There's also a couple of things like Moritats which are probably too good for what they can do. Spartans are also unfriendly, but may not be as bad with all the anti-tank options of 40k), but overall it's remarkably balanced, more so than most books.


Oh, and as Still Standing says: Marines with bolters (and additional CC and bolt pistols) are a solid start to any list. They have an ability like Bladestorm, which is funky, but it's more the fact a squad of 20 with extra cc and a sergeant with melta bombs rocks in at 295pts. A cheap and cheerful way to put a lot of bodies on the field.

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 16:38
There's a lot of differences in squads and specialism. Tactical squads don't exist and instead you have special squads of guys that all have special weapons. Minor touches like that sort of show that the legions were split in to units that did one job really well and were not a be all and end all design.

It's difficult to say what the average player would say if you used GW 40k kits and just used the legion rules for them.

Personally I'd be split on it, 30k is something that deserves that little bit extra attention. Though maybe that's just me being a snob because I'll have spent 2 or 3 times as much money on my army to make it authentic than someone who just used GW kits. If you heavily converted them rather than just paint them as normal then I'd be less inclined to be whiny.

On the other hand I do have 10 tartaros pattern terminators that were obviously designed before the Heresy book was designed, they have aquillas on the chest of them. So really I should be filing those off but if I do that I might make a meal of it and wind up with a rather expensive ruined squad of terminators...

So like I said, difficult to say.

I know what you mean , but i meant that possibly use some great shields from BT - the big shield from FW and miniatures as well , noticed that a lot of guys talks about the aquillas and how they file them off ...

So the weaponry is different and the rules and possibilities to use FW Veichles ?

One of my questions was about where to start , in which book the settings in terms of troops , Elite and such ... I would like as many perspectives as possible - you guys are truly amazing here to reply my noob questions - Thanks again from a cold Sweden - the spring is late so its perfect to sit here and do research

Still Standing
31-03-2013, 16:42
The complete rules are in Betrayal, you don't need anything else (bar the main rule book, a tape, some dice and an opponent) to play.

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 16:45
I see , It would be nice to be able to play with my friends and without them hating me for bringing to good veichle/character options :)

As I said so do I play Black Templars and they are not the best marines right now , got an OLD Codex (2005) but if I play with Assault terminators they are fun - but I will not win tournaments :)
So It would be fun to try to implement some features that show resemblance with BT in a Horus Heresy army , since a lot of my fluff says that they descend from this period and from Sigismund - correct me if Im wrong

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 16:49
I did play a small friendly tournament and only won one of 4 games (against Ultramarines)
against Daemons I didnt stand a chance ....Did get a consolation prize though of about 30 Euros :)

Still Standing
31-03-2013, 16:49
I suspect that when the Fists get their own rules they will be a very static siege based list. If you ran an Imperial Fist list with lots of fast moving assault elements and incorporated the Templar cross as company/chapter symbol I think that would nicely hint that they are the original Templars. Perhaps you could use Sigismund as your Warlord (I don't know what weapons he used, but I am sure you could make a close copy with the regular Marine characters).

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 16:49
The complete rules are in Betrayal, you don't need anything else (bar the main rule book, a tape, some dice and an opponent) to play.

Thanks - great :) !!!

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 16:53
I suspect that when the Fists get their own rules they will be a very static siege based list. If you ran an Imperial Fist list with lots of fast moving assault elements and incorporated the Templar cross as company/chapter symbol I think that would nicely hint that they are the original Templars. Perhaps you could use Sigismund as your Warlord (I don't know what weapons he used, but I am sure you could make a close copy with the regular Marine characters).

Thanks , thats a good idea , because the fluff behind says so about the origin of BT
A lot of guys here makes their own characters , isnt it any characters available to buy and convert from lets say Forge World ?

Still Standing
31-03-2013, 17:01
How about this guy Legion Champion (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Infantry_of_the_Horus_Heresy/LEGION_CHAMPION_AND_MASTER_OF_SIGNAL.html)? He looks enough like an Emperor's Champion to make a decent Sigismund. Please bear in mind I've no idea how that guy was equipped!

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 17:15
How about this guy Legion Champion (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Infantry_of_the_Horus_Heresy/LEGION_CHAMPION_AND_MASTER_OF_SIGNAL.html)? He looks enough like an Emperor's Champion to make a decent Sigismund. Please bear in mind I've no idea how that guy was equipped!

I`ve seen this one and it looks great - so there are champions as well in Horus Heresy ?
How could a starterlist look like , say 1000 points ?

Still standing - do you have an Horus Heresy army ?

Still Standing
31-03-2013, 17:18
I have small Thousand Sons army. A couple of squads of Veteran Tactical Marines, a squad of Terminators, a Contemptor Dreadnought led by a Librarian. Next purchase will be a squad of 20 Bolter Marines and perhaps an Autocannon squad.

If I were to make a new 1000 point list (for Templars) I'd take something similar to this...

Legion Centurion w/ Artificer Armour, Power Weapon 75 pts

20 Tactical Marines (bolt pistols and chainswords) 250 pts

5x Legion Tactical Support Marines w/ 5x Plasma Guns 175 pts

5x Legion Tactical Support Marines w/ 5x Plasma Guns 175 pts

3x Jetbikes w/ 3 Multi-Meltas 165 pts

5x Devastator Marines w/ 5 Autocannons 160 pts

1000 pts

Not saying it's a great list, but it would be fun. Big squad runs across the table, supported by lots of firepower.

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 17:25
I looked through your list and liked it , im a bit of a noob but it seems right to me , if possible when i start to build my army i would try to get the most possible CC , Assault terminators and assault troops with jump packs as the rules allow - excuse my spelling overall the texts ....English is not my first language :)

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 17:27
About Sigismund - does anybody know some more about him , equipment and perhaps possible rules - i like the idea that he is some kind of a founder of Black Templars ....

Nikolaus
31-03-2013, 17:39
Ooh really , so if i mix in shields BT-style and things that you could recognize from them - then Its alright ?

Whats the big difference from usual 40K ? the use of more good looking miniatures from lets say FW (Contemptor Dread , Spartan Assault Tank etc) ??

AND THEY SHALL KNOW FEAR...

Betrayal and 40k can be played hand in hand, and some would go far as to say 40k is the more powerful format, but ofc you can go the other way and break things.. the Moritat (sp?) with dual Plasma Pistols, with prescience.. can put out a stupid amount of shots (50-60 of them i think)... hitting on 2's, reroll 1's and another shot per wound (or is it hit, need to find my copy to double check)

Commissar Davis
31-03-2013, 17:43
I looked through your list and liked it , im a bit of a noob but it seems right to me , if possible when i start to build my army i would try to get the most possible CC , Assault terminators and assault troops with jump packs as the rules allow - excuse my spelling overall the texts ....English is not my first language :)

There is a description of Sigismund in Einsenstien (or whatever it is called) and Mechanicum, his armour is yellow but with the Templar insignia. He has a sword, though he also has a bolter. Seems to have both PA and TA, but both times his own insignia is noted.

He basically leads the IF Legions 1st Co.

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 17:55
AND THEY SHALL KNOW FEAR...

Betrayal and 40k can be played hand in hand, and some would go far as to say 40k is the more powerful format, but ofc you can go the other way and break things.. the Moritat (sp?) with dual Plasma Pistols, with prescience.. can put out a stupid amount of shots (50-60 of them i think)... hitting on 2's, reroll 1's and another shot per wound (or is it hit, need to find my copy to double check)

Nice !! I know one guy who's intention is to build THE biggest converted IG army (all converted) but no one who plays Horus Heresy , and I really want to play with my friends - and they to stay friends. I dont say I dont want miniatures who isnt as good as they can get :) i will try to find out more and build myself a good and fun army who performs well and can beat a Deamon army who I think is really nasty right now - correct me if Im wrong
I don`t know who "The Moritat" is but seems a little nasty :)

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 17:57
There is a description of Sigismund in Einsenstien (or whatever it is called) and Mechanicum, his armour is yellow but with the Templar insignia. He has a sword, though he also has a bolter. Seems to have both PA and TA, but both times his own insignia is noted.

He basically leads the IF Legions 1st Co.

Okey thanks , I will search the web for more of that. You guys are awesome to reply in this forum - all of you

Still Standing
31-03-2013, 18:03
Nice !! I know one guy who's intention is to build THE biggest converted IG army (all converted) but no one who plays Horus Heresy , and I really want to play with my friends - and they to stay friends. I dont say I dont want miniatures who isnt as good as they can get :) i will try to find out more and build myself a good and fun army who performs well and can beat a Deamon army who I think is really nasty right now - correct me if Im wrong
I don`t know who "The Moritat" is but seems a little nasty :)

The Moritat is basically a specialised Captain who has to take 2 pistols and gets an additional shot for each wound / kill.

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 18:33
So he seems quite nice to play with :) Did you mean how many wounds he inflicts or as many as the character got ?

Carnage
31-03-2013, 18:50
The Moritat is basically a specialised Captain who has to take 2 pistols and gets an additional shot for each wound / kill.

For each HIT. Double plasma pistol + prescience means no one will ever play you again. He's a 1 shot nuke....averaging 72 plasma pistol shots every other turn. For those of you bad at math that's;

- 60 dead T5 or less models, or 20 dead with 3++ save (TH/SS or GTG in ruins, or fortifications). Basically one shots any squad in the game that isn't in 4+ cover and has 30+ models, including terminators.
- 1 really dead AV13 or less vehicle....averaging 12 hull points of damage against AV13, and more as you go down in armor, so LOL squadrons/vehicles. I'm not familiar with the super heavy rules, but against the side/back armor of a titan, you have a good chance of doing some significant damage, if not killing it outright.
- 48 wounds against T6....that's a brood of 3 Carnifexes dead (500+ points).....4 times over.

There's obviously issues with range, and his kill zone is only 12" so he won't actually kill all that, but give him a jetpack and prescience and he could very well remove a large squad from the table in 1 volley. All for the low low cost of about 250-300 points, depending on how much you splurge on the librarian.

There were a few questionable things like this in the book (being able to move and fire your devastators for example) but the recent FAQ shut them all down, except this moritat plasma storm crap. If you want to have people left to play against, I don't suggest running a Moritat/Librarian combo.

Nikolaus
31-03-2013, 18:53
EDIT: Carnage answered all this as i was checking my facts in the book...

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 19:13
For each HIT. Double plasma pistol + prescience means no one will ever play you again. He's a 1 shot nuke....averaging 72 plasma pistol shots every other turn. For those of you bad at math that's;

- 60 dead T5 or less models, or 20 dead with 3++ save (TH/SS or GTG in ruins, or fortifications). Basically one shots any squad in the game that isn't in 4+ cover and has 30+ models, including terminators.
- 1 really dead AV13 or less vehicle....averaging 12 hull points of damage against AV13, and more as you go down in armor, so LOL squadrons/vehicles. I'm not familiar with the super heavy rules, but against the side/back armor of a titan, you have a good chance of doing some significant damage, if not killing it outright.
- 48 wounds against T6....that's a brood of 3 Carnifexes dead (500+ points).....4 times over.

There's obviously issues with range, and his kill zone is only 12" so he won't actually kill all that, but give him a jetpack and prescience and he could very well remove a large squad from the table in 1 volley. All for the low low cost of about 250-300 points, depending on how much you splurge on the librarian.

There were a few questionable things like this in the book (being able to move and fire your devastators for example) but the recent FAQ shut them all down, except this moritat plasma storm crap. If you want to have people left to play against, I don't suggest running a Moritat/Librarian combo.

Wow - I hear you , thats not even funny - and not how I want to play

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 19:15
But still thank you !!!

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 19:24
Are there any other differences , is there a standard troop size , devastator squads , How are the HQ slots built up and how about heavy weapons in the squads and so on ...

Carnage
31-03-2013, 20:40
Are there any other differences , is there a standard troop size , devastator squads , How are the HQ slots built up and how about heavy weapons in the squads and so on ...

It's as different from Black Templars as Black Templar are from vanilla marines.

Pretty much all the squads all start off expensive...prohibitively so, and get extra guys for super cheap. So it encourages large squads (10-20 for your basic bolter boys and assault squads).

They are all very very specialized. No heavy/special weapons in your "tactical" squads, your support squads are all of one weapon type, your devastators are all 1 weapon type....etc.

No ATSKNF, so losing combat and failing that break test means a swept squad.

Terminators are interesting. I particularly like catapharacii terminators with combi-bolters and power axes.....30-33 points each i think? And best of all, they are scoring. So you can take a large block or 2 of these and really cause some damage.

Lvl 3 librarians for cheap...shenanigans with the moritat...still good attack bike squadrons (with autocannon or hvy flamers if you want, I still like multi-meltas)...Up gunned AC/LC predators, plasma-destructor predators, Land Raider Spartans with cermite armor and flare shield is pretty much the toughest tank in the game outside of super heavies.

There's a lot of neat toys, but it's expensive both money wise, and points wise. If your opponents LET you play against 40k armies I'm not too sure how well they would stack up. Probably better then your average Black Templar army (although worse then a min/max missile spam one) and probably towards the lower of the pack overall. Lack of ATSKNF really cuts them deep when the list encourages large squad sizes.

kryptt
31-03-2013, 21:38
Wait when marines break they don't get to regroup? Could someone please clarify. It's been a very long time since played.

PS I can't wait for the sigismund model to come out. Finally the proginator of my BT's available as a playable model. I'm going to model to look like he's just formed the BT's.

Kijamon
31-03-2013, 21:40
And they shall know no fear is not in the 30k rules. Every one is too paranoid for auto rallying I guess.

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 22:26
167785
It's as different from Black Templars as Black Templar are from vanilla marines.

Pretty much all the squads all start off expensive...prohibitively so, and get extra guys for super cheap. So it encourages large squads (10-20 for your basic bolter boys and assault squads).

They are all very very specialized. No heavy/special weapons in your "tactical" squads, your support squads are all of one weapon type, your devastators are all 1 weapon type....etc.

No ATSKNF, so losing combat and failing that break test means a swept squad.

Terminators are interesting. I particularly like catapharacii terminators with combi-bolters and power axes.....30-33 points each i think? And best of all, they are scoring. So you can take a large block or 2 of these and really cause some damage.

Lvl 3 librarians for cheap...shenanigans with the moritat...still good attack bike squadrons (with autocannon or hvy flamers if you want, I still like multi-meltas)...Up gunned AC/LC predators, plasma-destructor predators, Land Raider Spartans with cermite armor and flare shield is pretty much the toughest tank in the game outside of super heavies.

There's a lot of neat toys, but it's expensive both money wise, and points wise. If your opponents LET you play against 40k armies I'm not too sure how well they would stack up. Probably better then your average Black Templar army (although worse then a min/max missile spam one) and probably towards the lower of the pack overall. Lack of ATSKNF really cuts them deep when the list encourages large squad sizes.
It still seems very interresting , This time I will make plans for my army
Use as much of my extra bits from 40Kas possible , use bits from various places where they come cheaper and try to play my friends who all know about my plans until then perhaps a picture of my unfinished Black Templar army will do :)
They have all been lying around in my basement for 6-7 years and I have picked up the hobby again this year

Nikolaus
31-03-2013, 22:34
And they shall know no fear is not in the 30k rules. Every one is too paranoid for auto rallying I guess.

brother turned against brother. They show fear as people they thought uncorruptable, even Primarchs... turning to chaos in front of their eyes.

and in the HH there were thousands of the SM's around.. so they were more expendable too...

Carnage
31-03-2013, 22:51
167785
It still seems very interresting , This time I will make plans for my army
Use as much of my extra bits from 40Kas possible , use bits from various places where they come cheaper and try to play my friends who all know about my plans until then perhaps a picture of my unfinished Black Templar army will do :)
They have all been lying around in my basement for 6-7 years and I have picked up the hobby again this year

About 75% of the stuff in that picture is unusable for Legion lists. There's no Land Raider Crusaders, no TH/SS terminators and no Land Speeders. Is that a TL-LC/hvy bolter predator? Man those are poor.

Honestly, unless you absolutely love the rules for some reason or intend on buy all FW models you are almost certainly better off using one of the other marine codexs. DA/CSM/SW are all decent at the moment, and vanilla isn't awful if you build around the special characters. Word is that vanilla is getting a new codex before too long as well (June to November...no one is really sure ATM).

Inquisitor Engel
31-03-2013, 23:09
One thing to try and keep in mind unless you have a SUPER dedicated and into-30k gaming group, is try and make sure you core units can double for units in the CSM or SM codexes, so they're legit in 40k games too. Most friendly folks won't have issues with you playing 30k lists in friendly games, but you never know.

Brother Nidus
31-03-2013, 23:18
About 75% of the stuff in that picture is unusable for Legion lists. There's no Land Raider Crusaders, no TH/SS terminators and no Land Speeders.

Also you would need to paint them in Imperial Fist yellow to go pre-heresy, as the Black Templars don't officially exist till after the heresy where Sigismund becomes the first Chapter Master of the most fanatical Crazy Imperial Fists.


Nidus

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 23:24
brother turned against brother. They show fear as people they thought uncorruptable, even Primarchs... turning to chaos in front of their eyes.

and in the HH there were thousands of the SM's around.. so they were more expendable too...

I Like your sense of humour :)

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 23:26
Also you would need to paint them in Imperial Fist yellow to go pre-heresy, as the Black Templars don't officially exist till after the heresy where Sigismund becomes the first Chapter Master of the most fanatical Crazy Imperial Fists.


Nidus

I will not use my Black templars to build a Horus heresy army :) It will be a completely new one

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 23:33
Also you would need to paint them in Imperial Fist yellow to go pre-heresy, as the Black Templars don't officially exist till after the heresy where Sigismund becomes the first Chapter Master of the most fanatical Crazy Imperial Fists.


Nidus

I will build a brand new army but if I can I will implement some BT shields and other little things - I really like the fluff and miniatures of BT , but if it isnt possible I will build a Imperial fist army perhaps or what i will find interesting

Erik Sweden
31-03-2013, 23:48
Yes you are correct , I built almost everything from scratches of a Ultramarines army I got cheap from a friend - then i found BT and now 6-7 years later i have started to magnetize all my tanks - so now there is some better options than a heavy boltersponson - thanks for pointing out the obvious - this is still a WIP and not optimized in any way ....

Erik Sweden
27-04-2013, 07:44
So now Im back again , I have started to like the fluff around the Raven Guard (got to love jumppacks) So as someone mentioned I could wait a few months to se if there will be facts and more fluff in the next Horus Heresy book - right or wrong ?
Perhaps Raven Guard will be included there ?

Is there anyone out there who plays Raven Guard and have some pointers ?

dugaal
27-04-2013, 14:55
One thing to try and keep in mind unless you have a SUPER dedicated and into-30k gaming group, is try and make sure you core units can double for units in the CSM or SM codexes, so they're legit in 40k games too. Most friendly folks won't have issues with you playing 30k lists in friendly games, but you never know.

This is what I wanted to do as my primary list, after seeing the models. Make a DA/CSM Codex list using 30k FW models and keeping the unit selections fluffy. (10 man tacticals, Havocs for support and heavy squads, nothing that isnt found in the legion lists)

DA - good for terminator lists (late Hersey era) and Know no fear, better LR and dread variety
CSM - Havocs with special weapons or autocannons, Terminator weapon variety and Reaper autocannons.

Jonny Draigo
27-04-2013, 14:57
I really like Raven Guard by design, full corvus armor army must look awesome. What I see as aproblem is Assault squads appear to be a bit overpriced in Betrayal book, 350 for 20 guys is bit too much, especially since you lock them in assault, they do exactly same thing as tactical squad with pistol and chainsword which are much cheaper, and good luck trying deepstriking them, even if you avoid mishap there may still be all those plasma predators and basilisk tanks that will turn them to shread. I cannot imagine Raven Guard without jump pack units, so lets hope they will get cheaper in the next book :)

shaw3029
27-04-2013, 16:35
Everything you need to know is in betrayal regarding the legion list. Raven guard are rumoured and highly likely to be in the next book. Due September but possibly earlier. I would expect to find out in a few weeks from forge worlds Horus Heresy weekender.

As for making a army. If you can design a list that without to much change can easily be used in 40K without to much trouble.

My pre Heresy Imperial Fists are a 40K army which I am just adding to to make it 30K. So then I can play in both eras.

Kerstan
27-04-2013, 17:01
Other people have said it but I'll also chime in: buy "Betrayal." It is beyond wonderful! It is worth every penny! Cope

Erik Sweden
28-04-2013, 19:55
Thanks everyone , I think i will wait until the next book and try to make a lot of research.

Does anyone know any good logs , websites about loyalist armies , still think its a little hard to se whos who because Im not 100% sure which army to play ?

Mazryonh
29-04-2013, 03:03
Personally, given how highly anticipated this block of models was, I'm surprised that FW hasn't put out more rulebooks for the HH Legion lists or even more Primarch models by now. Only Angron has an FW model right now; I can't wait to see what they do with Fulgrim, Mortarion, and pre-Heresy Horus himself. Those models are sure to be very good sellers, so why haven't they made more yet?

Carnage
29-04-2013, 13:10
Personally, given how highly anticipated this block of models was, I'm surprised that FW hasn't put out more rulebooks for the HH Legion lists or even more Primarch models by now. Only Angron has an FW model right now; I can't wait to see what they do with Fulgrim, Mortarion, and pre-Heresy Horus himself. Those models are sure to be very good sellers, so why haven't they made more yet?

Betrayal was "only" 6 months ago, so it really hasn't been that long. Factor in GW's super packed 40k release schedule for the first half of this year and I'd wager they are waiting for a quiet spot in the release schedule to soak up some money. It wouldn't make sense to do all the HH rule books in a year and a half, they want to milk this for the better part of 5 years to a decade.

Now, I don't really get why they haven't done a second, or third Primarch by now....even if they do all 18-19, the Emperor and a handful of other top rank special characters, unless they do 2-3 a year it's going to be a decade before the last couple are out.

Nikolaus
29-04-2013, 13:30
Betrayal was "only" 6 months ago, so it really hasn't been that long. Factor in GW's super packed 40k release schedule for the first half of this year and I'd wager they are waiting for a quiet spot in the release schedule to soak up some money. It wouldn't make sense to do all the HH rule books in a year and a half, they want to milk this for the better part of 5 years to a decade.

Now, I don't really get why they haven't done a second, or third Primarch by now....even if they do all 18-19, the Emperor and a handful of other top rank special characters, unless they do 2-3 a year it's going to be a decade before the last couple are out.

Fulgrim is hinted to hit the store 19th May.. as FW has an event that day where the finished Primarch model is released, maybe for sale to the attendees.. and considering how well it went at Games Day with Angron.. they wont make the mistake of putting him out as pre-sale and lose all the money they did on Angron and the ebay fiasco (80% of the GD angrons was on Ebay within a week selling for at least 100.. with the highest sold being 670 for model number 3 of 1000

Jonny Draigo
29-04-2013, 13:31
not to mention talks about two versions of primarchs, normal and chaos one

Still Standing
29-04-2013, 13:35
Most of them didn't change until after the heresy. I am fairly sure the Daemon Primarchs only became such after they fled to the Eye. Or am I wrong?

Kijamon
29-04-2013, 13:37
The cynic in me thinks they are brought out Angron so quickly because of the events in Betrayal.

Now Fulgrim is rumoured to be next, whom also has some interesting book events.

Will we see Daemon Princes before we see some of the other primarchs?

Jonny Draigo
29-04-2013, 13:52
Angron did change during Heresy, Fulgrim probably post heresy, not sure about Morty.

I was a bit expecting Crusade era Horus around now and Chaos Horus for the final phase. The fact is next book is pretty close and we still have 1 of 4 Primarchs from first book, next book will add 4 more, so they are getting bigger and bigger delay in each book if they keep at this pace

I also see it like Angron was released specificaly for Istvaan III, as it was basicaly his playground, he was only Primarch fighting on that planet, Horus stayed on his ship, Fulgrim was not even there and I dont know anything about Morty again

Nikolaus
29-04-2013, 16:06
Angron did change during Heresy, Fulgrim probably post heresy, not sure about Morty.

I was a bit expecting Crusade era Horus around now and Chaos Horus for the final phase. The fact is next book is pretty close and we still have 1 of 4 Primarchs from first book, next book will add 4 more, so they are getting bigger and bigger delay in each book if they keep at this pace

I also see it like Angron was released specificaly for Istvaan III, as it was basicaly his playground, he was only Primarch fighting on that planet, Horus stayed on his ship, Fulgrim was not even there and I dont know anything about Morty again

well Typhon (Typhus) changed during the Heresy.. and I am pretty sure Morty fell to Nurgle around the same time.. so he may have a chaos model, just not deamon prince levels.

Angron and Fulgrim are this books primarch and the designer just started Ferrus.. though they have hired a **** ton of new designers.. so maybe more primarchs/SC's at a faster pace?

Mazryonh
29-04-2013, 17:12
Now Fulgrim is rumoured to be next, whom also has some interesting book events.

I bet that when Fulgrim is released, some painters will paint him up with 1980s-vintage neon colours to accentuate his Slaaneshi tendencies. I'm itching to see just how FW will model his armour since it's supposed to be "the pinnacle of perfection."


Will we see Daemon Princes before we see some of the other primarchs?

These would be great to see as well. Up until now, marked daemon princes have had to be converted by players in order to show obvious signs of their daemonic patronage. Ones made by Forge World would be a way to get marked Daemon Princes right out of the box.

dugaal
29-04-2013, 17:12
Angron is required in one mission, so clearly a priority/ expected launch model

Thoughts on 30k era:
I know the biggest deal of the Hersey is all about space marine vs space marine, But Betrayal was setting the scene and is called, Betrayal, so focuses of Istvan. Any thoughts on whether future books will go more in detail on xenos or human populations that were fought? It reads as if nothing proved a challenge, but that's no fun, rules for playing out tough crusade missions should be there.

It would be interesting to play with an IG 'Crusade army' as allies, modeled to appear like RT Guard somehow. Same for some Xenos races; exodite settlers, non-Imperial mutant humans etc.

Jonny Draigo
29-04-2013, 17:56
On side note, me and friends tried to play few test games with heresy lists vs eldar and orks and I managed to lose vs both at least once, especially Eldar enjoyed erasing my 20 man on foot marine squads with Warp Hunter Artillery while Fire Dragons melted away my tank squadrons. So even 40k dexes have chance to win vs heresy lists :)

Mazryonh
29-04-2013, 18:19
Same for some Xenos races; exodite settlers, non-Imperial mutant humans etc.

If you want non-legion opposition for Warhammer 30k, non-Imperial humans would be difficult to create lists for because the Warp Storms just before the Great Crusade cut off humanity's FTL interstellar travel (which means that each human world needing conquest could have vastly different technology bases). WH40K Ork lists would easily fit into a 30k campaign since they are not known for passing on their technological development (and their baseline technology is in their genetic code). Craftworld Eldar could be slightly different (possibly with no Warp Spiders or "newer" aspect warriors?). Exodite Eldar haven't been done before and would be tricky to get right. 40k Necron lists could work in a 30k campaign without any changes, as could Chaos Daemon lists. Tau don't exist as a technological species yet, and the Inquisition (with its associated ingame factions) hasn't yet been created.

Iron_Lord
29-04-2013, 19:53
Corsair Eldar and Dark Eldar fit in fairly neatly. One of the stories in Tales of Heresy is a Space Wolves vs Dark Eldar story.

Tau and Tyranids could be "stand-in" models for factions of the Heresy era- maybe megarachnids for Nids, Interex or something like that for Tau? Some high-tech alien race, anyway.

Baneboss
29-04-2013, 20:08
Current IG and especially Orks, Chaos Daemons codexes should work really well for Heresy.

When it comes to IG you could look at the old HH CCG pictures for inspiration. I would stay away from Psykers but use lots of plasma, Rapiers and all other technological stuff. If your opponent agrees you could modify the list to put Rotor Cannons on Sentinels (ill bet they will get them or some other minigun thingy) and use some whacky heavy weapons from the Legion list for normal squads or Veterans. Also you could include Land Raiders, Land Speeders and other SM vehicles with human crew.

Edit1: Except Razorbacks or Twinlas on Preds - those were invented later.

Eldar and DE perhaps. Maybe some people with more knowledge about those races could tell.

dugaal
30-04-2013, 01:38
Or Squat IG! After reconnection with Squat homeworlds and pressing them into service.

Also Renegade IG, or Necromunda models (ash wastes, goliaths, scavies) would make good barbarians from an old human planet

Kerrahn
30-04-2013, 02:20
I've actually started collecting a Legion army recently now that I've almost wrapped up my 40k Raven Guard. I've been hearing the Raven Guard won't be done until the 3rd book, but that isn't stopping me from getting some "must have" models that I know I'll be fielding because its fluffy, or "just 'cause".

So far I have the Mk IV Command Set (although I assembled the Praetor with the 2 shoulder cloaks by accident, but I do like how he turned out) and 10 Mk IV Tactical Support Marines with Volkite Calivers, and I should be getting a Recon Squad in the next week or 2. I'll be buying myself the big packs of Mk IV Tactical Squad and Assault Squad Marines later, they are a little too expensive for now (over $200AUD, maybe closer to $250, compared to the $100 Tactical Support Squad). When I get the Tactical Squad, I'll probably give the Sergeant a Combi-weapon so he has a Plasma / Melta / Flamer to use once, but can still join in on Fury of the Legion attacks.

After that, some Mk VI armour to represent the Raptors Company units, Apothecaries, a few different pieces to make a command squad (I have the Banner Bearer, and combined with Raven Guard Conversion Pack parts I have left over from the 40k army I could make the rest with just a pack of Mk IV armour, power weapons pack, and some other bits), and a Mk IV Veteran Tactical Squad (more Mk IV armour + conversion pack shoulders and bolters and I can have a Veteran Squad with the Sniper special rule, very fluffy), but then will wait on the Raven Guard book before I purchase anything else, as their specialist unit/s and characters, and their special rules, may dictate how I build the rest of my army.


EDIT: Oh, and a couple more things I noticed brought up in the tread I wanted to correct: Tactical Support Squad Sergeants doesn't get a special weapon like his squad, so the 5-man squads in the army list a few pages back only have 4 Plasma Guns and cost 160pts (Heavy Weapon Squad Sergeants do get the weapons though); and Land Speeders did exist in the Horus Heresy, the Legion List lets you field squads of them up to 5 big

Jonny Draigo
30-04-2013, 11:36
You are right about the Tactical Support Squad Kerrahn, never noticed that, I was assembling mine as 5 man squads all with the same weapons, good to know

I also use this oldschool speeders for my EC army, like to run them in group of 5 :)

169867

Erik Sweden
06-05-2013, 20:28
I have been reading and watching a lot about Lunar Wolves , they seem kind of cool to me - but do they get to use Horus as their Primarch , please correct me if Im wrong :)

melgorth
06-05-2013, 21:03
Most of them didn't change until after the heresy. I am fairly sure the Daemon Primarchs only became such after they fled to the Eye. Or am I wrong?

Angron and Fulgrim ascend to Daemon Primarchs a bit before the Siege of Terra, and Mortarion transformed on the way to Terra. Magnus also had already changed before the Siege but it is not clear how long beforehand. Perturabo and Lorgar ascended during the retreat to the Eye.

Nikolaus
06-05-2013, 21:08
Lunar Wolves became Sons of Horus. in honour of the pimarch.. so yes Horus is their primarch.

Nikolaus
06-05-2013, 21:11
Angron and Fulgrim ascend to Daemon Primarchs a bit before the Siege of Terra, and Mortarion transformed on the way to Terra. Magnus also had already changed before the Siege but it is not clear how long beforehand. Perturabo and Lorgar ascended during the retreat to the Eye.

Magnus wasn't DP until after Battle of The Fang.. over 1k years after the heresy..

But he was suped up by Tzeentchian powers

melgorth
06-05-2013, 22:13
The one main story that references the state of the chaos Primarchs at the siege of Terra is William Kings short story where it is said that that Magnus, Angron, Mortarion and Fulgrim "had been transformed into creatures both daemonic and exultant". I've not seen anything that has contradicted this, but if you have I would be more than happy to see it. Black Library seems to be following this so far as Angron and Fulgrim have both turned already in the Age of Darkness, so it should be the same situation with Magnus and Mortarion before they get to the Siege. Heres a link to the story if you would like a read of it. :)
http://members.tripod.com/orcrist_game/40k/id3.html

As for the Battle of the Fang, Magnus is definitely a Daemon Primarch before it happens. In the book Magnus has to be summoned to the corporeal realm by a sorceror. He speaks about how he can never be truly flesh and blood again, and when he fights Bjorn it describes the tearing of Magnus' flesh "from the Daemonic essence beneath".

Nikolaus
07-05-2013, 00:37
The one main story that references the state of the chaos Primarchs at the siege of Terra is William Kings short story where it is said that that Magnus, Angron, Mortarion and Fulgrim "had been transformed into creatures both daemonic and exultant". I've not seen anything that has contradicted this, but if you have I would be more than happy to see it. Black Library seems to be following this so far as Angron and Fulgrim have both turned already in the Age of Darkness, so it should be the same situation with Magnus and Mortarion before they get to the Siege. Heres a link to the story if you would like a read of it. :)
http://members.tripod.com/orcrist_game/40k/id3.html

As for the Battle of the Fang, Magnus is definitely a Daemon Primarch before it happens. In the book Magnus has to be summoned to the corporeal realm by a sorceror. He speaks about how he can never be truly flesh and blood again, and when he fights Bjorn it describes the tearing of Magnus' flesh "from the Daemonic essence beneath".

must have missed that bit.. good book but has been awhile since i read it.. day and date of the books release.

Morty is DP or close to it at siege of terra.. and magnus as i said is suped up.. he hadnt gained his wings or immortality till after his life on his planet of his..

Mazryonh
07-05-2013, 00:57
So how can soon can we expect another Primarch model or HH book from FW? It's clear that both of them will be great sellers, and GW certainly needs the revenue in this economic climate, so the sooner they release them, the better.

melgorth
07-05-2013, 01:28
Actually yea you are right about Mortarion, currently he isn't a Daemon Primarch until he creates his plague planet in the Eye of Terror, the incident in the Warp just sets him on the path to Daemonhood, I apologize. :)

I still think that there is a good chance that Magnus is Daemon Prince at Terra though, the lack of wings is not note worthy as he is able to choose what form he takes like in the Battle of the Fang, where he takes on his Great Crusade form to give the invasion of Fenris a symbolical duality if I recall. Magnus already had ruined the Emperors Great Work (unintentionally admittedly), the Planet of Sorcerors had already been created by Tzeentch in readiness for the Thousand Sons and the whole legion was his in body and soul, especially after the Rubric. It is not unlikely that Tzeentch would make Magnus a Daemon Primarch in the seven years until the Siege.

Nikolaus
07-05-2013, 02:30
So how can soon can we expect another Primarch model or HH book from FW? It's clear that both of them will be great sellers, and GW certainly needs the revenue in this economic climate, so the sooner they release them, the better.

18th will see fulgrim model released to the people at the weekender.. probably the 19th on sale for those attending, with it pre-sale or actually on sale 19th.. i doubt they want another Angron Problem (almost all on ebay within an hour selling for at least 3 times the basic price)

and Volume 2 will be GD UK.


Actually yea you are right about Mortarion, currently he isn't a Daemon Primarch until he creates his plague planet in the Eye of Terror, the incident in the Warp just sets him on the path to Daemonhood, I apologize. :)

I still think that there is a good chance that Magnus is Daemon Prince at Terra though, the lack of wings is not note worthy as he is able to choose what form he takes like in the Battle of the Fang, where he takes on his Great Crusade form to give the invasion of Fenris a symbolical duality if I recall. Magnus already had ruined the Emperors Great Work (unintentionally admittedly), the Planet of Sorcerors had already been created by Tzeentch in readiness for the Thousand Sons and the whole legion was his in body and soul, especially after the Rubric. It is not unlikely that Tzeentch would make Magnus a Daemon Primarch in the seven years until the Siege.


Daemon Magnus probably will not have a model.. considering siege o'terra will have Empy, Daemon-Horus, Sang, Dorn, Angrier Ron.. well alot of primarch.. Magnus isnt THAT popular to demand a second model beyond the one they will release for the prospero book

Mazryonh
07-05-2013, 04:14
18th will see fulgrim model released to the people at the weekender.. probably the 19th on sale for those attending, with it pre-sale or actually on sale 19th.. i doubt they want another Angron Problem (almost all on ebay within an hour selling for at least 3 times the basic price)

I see. On a side note, what did they call Sanguinius in the FW HH books again? If Angron was "the Red Angel," does that make Sanguinius, primarch of the Blood Angels, the "White Angel" given his own white angel wings?

dugaal
09-05-2013, 00:28
I dont think they even mentioned him in HH Betrayal, or if they did it was by name along with the other undetailed primarches.
The first book focused on pre-imperial history then Death Guard, Sons of Horus, World Eaters and Emperors Children

CDalton
11-05-2013, 17:14
My brother and I have been absolutely eating up all things Horus Heresy lately. We've both taken two Of the legions from Betrayal and are working on making a primary list with an allied detachment. It's lookin like great fun! Here's a few ways I've been able to save some cash-
1. Plastic bolters- the new bolters work fine with some cutting, and I even managed to snag 11 rogue trader era bolters from ebay for about half the price of forgeworlds kits.
2. Look for rogue trader era plastic kits for your vehicles, you can get them pretty cheap and with a nice paint job, they look great.
3. Im also planning on doing an Imperial Fists army, some things (spartan, stormbird, land raider Achilles) can be used in both 30 and 40k lists, and would be especially cool for you as you play tenplars and could sub them in as "unofficial" allies.
4. A legion praetor (HQ) allows you a choice of rites of war, one of which allows for vet squads and termis as troops. This is a great way to save some cash on your troops choices, and works great thematically for representing Sigismunds 1st company, or a cool "honor guard" army for the eventual Rogal Dorn.
5. Ebay- while forgeworld is rare on ebay, you can sometimes get some great deals! My brother and I just got a 5000 point all forgeworld sons of horus army, well over $2000 in value, for under 800 dollars. Beware recasters! The quality is lacking, and Forgeworld does such a good job that they don't deserve to be getting so blatantly ripped off.

Hope some of this helps! Betrayal is an expensive book, but absolutely gorgeous and very much worth it. For only about double the price of a hardcover codex, the value is very much there.

Erik Sweden
13-05-2013, 13:22
All this sounds great , with a new book , perhaps a lot of cool new stuff with the new book ...
Im also looking at ebay - are you guys saying that a lot of miniatures and so on is recasted ??

CDalton
13-05-2013, 14:31
Indeed, most of the forgeworld that I see on ebay is recasters stuff. You can get it cheaper but in my experience the quality is lacking, especially for models for a project like a Heresy army. You can usually tell a recaster by their location- if they are from Russia or Asia, and their description for their items doesn't display any knowledge of what they actually are. Also check their other items, they usually have a HUGE amount of Forgeworld stuff for sale.

dugaal
14-05-2013, 15:21
I haven't been active on Ebay in years but someone around here might frown on the talk about recasting, or buying from recasters. However I'd be curious to see what customers say about the quality or reliability of such sellers. Part of Forgeworld's draw is their customer service involving poor casts, and the fact they are designing the models and writing the awesome books, and thus deserving their business.

What is funny is I am totally willing to give them my money, if I could work out how to get Yen with no Japanese CC into their pockets. That plus being unable to finalize a list to run.

CDalton
14-05-2013, 16:55
If its taboo someone just let me know and ill edit my posts accordingly. As it is I've given advice AGAINST buying from them, but a mod should let me know, not trying to ruffle any feathers.

Bobthemime
14-05-2013, 16:59
If its taboo someone just let me know and ill edit my posts accordingly. As it is I've given advice AGAINST buying from them, but a mod should let me know, not trying to ruffle any feathers.

it is not a taboo to have recasts.. illegal though.. you bought "stolen" goods, fully aware of the fact.

CDalton
14-05-2013, 17:03
Well there you go, take my advice and don't buy recasts! Crappy fakes and potential legal trouble. Ebay is an obvious place to look for deals, just wanted the OP to be aware of what to look for so as not to end up with something he didn't bargain on getting. I meant the topic more then owning them, as far as this discussion goes.

Bobthemime
14-05-2013, 17:16
Well there you go, take my advice and don't buy recasts! Crappy fakes and potential legal trouble. Ebay is an obvious place to look for deals, just wanted the OP to be aware of what to look for so as not to end up with something he didn't bargain on getting. I meant the topic more then owning them, as far as this discussion goes.

alot of people dont realize what they are doing is illegal..

an ex-freind of mine tried to sell recasts.. police confiscated it and he was let off with 100 hours community service.

Kijamon
14-05-2013, 17:29
Actually what you said is not strictly true. If you buy fakes and own fakes that is not illegal but trying to sell them is. Hence why your mate got in trouble. It's immoral if you know the fact in advance perhaps - you are essentially taking money from FW's coffers.

It is similar to the fake dvd market. In fact copying a dvd or recasting model is perfectly legal provided you own the original.

So the main drawback of a fake is that you're lumped with it for life.

This is in the UK though so I don't know what US law is like on this.

Bobthemime
14-05-2013, 18:02
Actually what you said is not strictly true. If you buy fakes and own fakes that is not illegal but trying to sell them is. Hence why your mate got in trouble. It's immoral if you know the fact in advance perhaps - you are essentially taking money from FW's coffers.

It is similar to the fake dvd market. In fact copying a dvd or recasting model is perfectly legal provided you own the original.

So the main drawback of a fake is that you're lumped with it for life.

This is in the UK though so I don't know what US law is like on this.

recasting a model you own for your own purposes is closer to the white area of gray.

Buying fakes is buying and handling illegal "stolen" (stolen IP) goods.. which is the darkest gray you can achieve with copyright theft.

well second to the selling of fakes..

Baneboss
14-05-2013, 18:06
alot of people dont realize what they are doing is illegal..

an ex-freind of mine tried to sell recasts.. police confiscated it and he was let off with 100 hours community service.

Ohh i bet they realise just like drug dealers realise that. They however risk it anyway because they can smell the profit.

Also i dont suspect police in Russia or China care about recasts. Not at all.

Bobthemime
14-05-2013, 18:10
Ohh i bet they realise just like drug dealers realise that. They however risk it anyway because they can smell the profit.

Also i dont suspect police in Russia or China care about recasts. Not at all.

Russia might, China certainly doesnt..

hell most of the UK recasters dont.

They gotta prove that it is a recast first, because selling FW on, isnt illegal. And you can easily say you bought them thinking they were miscasts..

dugaal
19-05-2013, 17:10
Well if people want prehersy without the pricetag I would follow the advice on finding rogue-trader era models, or simply sprinkle a few FW kits into carefully picked GW marines.

I'm getting around to buying FW. Considering the GW prices in japan, certian FW kits are better or close value. Terminators (20 man deals), dreadnaughts, and tanks with FW additions are roughly equal in price (even with current Yen)
Along with the points to dollar ratio of these kits in general, its cheaper to build a decent army.

Erik Sweden
17-06-2013, 20:26
172543 So this is my version of Abaddon , the idea is widely spread and Im quite satisfied but he is no complete yet , I will try to give him a twinlinked bolter too

Erik Sweden
17-06-2013, 20:28
Sorry about the quality of my image , am I supposed to be a photographer as well :)

Erik Sweden
17-06-2013, 20:32
172545172547And here is some more of my minis i will try to paint nicely

Erik Sweden
17-06-2013, 20:35
The assault marine is a Black Templar and I just wanted to show the size of Horus and Abaddon :D

Sqallum
17-06-2013, 21:15
Ooh, here is a quick way to get cheap Cataphtactii - buy normal Terminators, use other pre heresy heads, and use http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Legiones_Astartes/Death_Guard/DEATH_GUARD_CATAPHRACTII_SHOULDER_PADS.html

Sqallum
17-06-2013, 21:24
Ooh, here is a quick way to get cheap Cataphtactii - buy normal Terminators, use other pre heresy heads, and use http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Legiones_Astartes/Death_Guard/DEATH_GUARD_CATAPHRACTII_SHOULDER_PADS.html

Erik Sweden
17-06-2013, 22:02
Ooh, here is a quick way to get cheap Cataphtactii - buy normal Terminators, use other pre heresy heads, and use http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Legiones_Astartes/Death_Guard/DEATH_GUARD_CATAPHRACTII_SHOULDER_PADS.html

Thanks , But I will use Justaerin Terminators like Luna Wolves do , perhaps I will build them with HH shoulder pads or with Shoulderpads from the company in the US :rolleyes:
I havent decided yet - Thanks anyway
I really like when you guys bring new ideas

vladsimpaler
18-06-2013, 02:39
Well if people want prehersy without the pricetag I would follow the advice on finding rogue-trader era models

I would definitely recommend this to those who are in the U.S.
The reason I say that is because I'm currently doing just that! Although, I'm still buying some FW stuff like Rampagers, and Angron.

Erik Sweden
18-06-2013, 21:36
Im in Sweden but still like the idea :evilgrin: Has bought some stuff like heads , shoulder pads etc on ebay - to get just another look ...

Erik Sweden
24-06-2013, 13:01
I really like the new Brass for Luna wolves , did get the praetor at the same time - and the minis look great - but a little flaw on the leg of the terminator .... Just the way it is i suppose - or is it ??

Erik Sweden
08-09-2013, 15:59
So Im thinking (?) is there someone here who plays Lunar wolves ?
Whats your experiences ? What minis do you use , tanks etc
What is your thoughts about them ?