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=Angel=
04-04-2013, 18:18
Some thoughts on the info we have about the caliban before the imperium and indeed, before the lion.The hh books mention that although the settlers of the world regressed, they retained enough knowledge to build and maintain armoured suits that enhanced strength, swords with motorised blades and pistols with exploding bullets.From a writers point of view, what does this technology add to the setting? The men in the warhammer world beat daemons and chaos spawn with just cold steel and faith in sigmar.From a background point of view- they could make motors, explosive tipped pistols and even powered armour.Why did nobody make a machine gun, or a tank? Even if it was a knightly thing, not everyone was a knight...

baphomael
04-04-2013, 18:27
Some thoughts on the info we have about the caliban before the imperium and indeed, before the lion.The hh books mention that although the settlers of the world regressed, they retained enough knowledge to build and maintain armoured suits that enhanced strength, swords with motorised blades and pistols with exploding bullets.From a writers point of view, what does this technology add to the setting? The men in the warhammer world beat daemons and chaos spawn with just cold steel and faith in sigmar.From a background point of view- they could make motors, explosive tipped pistols and even powered armour.Why did nobody make a machine gun, or a tank? Even if it was a knightly thing, not everyone was a knight...

Maybe they didnt have the scraps of knowledge available for such things, or maybe they didnt have the infrastructure for more advanced industrial output

grissom2006
04-04-2013, 18:30
Plus the world was a death world making a suit to protect yourself is one thing building a machine and power it to get it around when you could even build roads is another.

=Angel=
04-04-2013, 20:32
The armour was powered. It made the wearer stronger. I'm assuming it wasn't steam powered, so we are talking some kind of energy source.

The knights used the armour to battle chaos spawn and protect human settlements.

But presumably they had machine smiths making these things- making motors to turn the chains on the chainswords and drums on revolver pistols.
And in the Millennia separated from terra, nobody thought to use motors to power guns

They hollowed out solid rock to produce a fortress for knights, but in battle they used swords and pistols.

There is a mental leap here- I'm just trying to get my head round it.

=Angel=
04-04-2013, 20:34
The armour was powered. It made the wearer stronger. I'm assuming it wasn't steam powered, so we are talking some kind of energy source.

The knights used the armour to battle chaos spawn and protect human settlements.

But presumably they had machine smiths making these things- making motors to turn the chains on the chainswords and drums on revolver pistols.
And in the Millennia separated from terra, nobody thought to use motors to power guns

They hollowed out solid rock to produce a fortress for knights, but in battle they used swords and pistols.

There is a mental leap here- I'm just trying to get my head round it.

MarshalFaust
04-04-2013, 20:56
It's supposed to be anachronistic. They are essentially feudal knights with access to certain arcane (to them) technologies that they truly do not understand. Their tech level was not based on a natural progression but of them holding on to key pieces of lost technology and slowly losing them over the centuries. And it's supposed to mirror the imperium in M41

Emperor's Grace
04-04-2013, 21:53
Remember, too, that they may have been losing a lot of those machines and resources during the fight.

It's hard to get ahead enough to innovate when the enemy has you barely able to produce enough of what you know.

=Angel=
04-04-2013, 22:25
Remember, too, that they may have been losing a lot of those machines and resources during the fight.

It's hard to get ahead enough to innovate when the enemy has you barely able to produce enough of what you know.

Interesting. I had assumed that the knightly orders numbers would have meant a steady stream of armour being produced- the process being pretty well understood.

Do you reckon that they were working off stc printouts for power armour and chain swords?

Because if we infer that, it implies the calibanite settlers had access to one at some point.
And that's very interesting.

m1acca1551
05-04-2013, 14:29
I honestly do not place much faith in the DA HH books for cannon as they are quite possibly some of the worst BL work i have ever seen in terms of highlighting a legion and it's home world.

But seeing as though it is all we have well, the armour has to have some sort of energy cell in order to run the thing, but based on the information they could be using AA batteries for all we know, as has been previously said they can hollow out a mountain but yet use sword and pistol to kill big bad monsters??

TheDungen
05-04-2013, 21:18
It predates the hh book it was in IA too. Maybee they like the imperium didn't know what they were really doing? They knew how to make the energy sources and weapons and armour but had no idea about the science behind it. Also caiban is within spitting distance from the greatest warp storm in the galaxy it was a chaos tainted death world. Not the best place for science.

=Angel=
08-04-2013, 10:04
My current thinking is that they needed to jam in some powered something, otherwise it would read like a warhammer fantasy book.

I guess the settlers could have salvaged machine shops from the crash of their spacecraft.
I guess the human settlers could have built their most successful settlements around these machine shops- which armed men with the only wargear available on the planet.
I guess the knightly orders grew from these cores of armoured warriors.

I just think there's a far more interesting story in there but it wasn't the one they wanted to tell.

Emperor's Grace
09-04-2013, 21:29
Interesting. I had assumed that the knightly orders numbers would have meant a steady stream of armour being produced- the process being pretty well understood.

Do you reckon that they were working off stc printouts for power armour and chain swords?

Because if we infer that, it implies the calibanite settlers had access to one at some point.
And that's very interesting.

I was just saying that we have no idea how swiftly they could produce them versus how swiftly they could lose them (as knights were slain by chaos beasts in various interesting ways) in whole or part.

Add to that the fact that some of the materials you need might be real hard to come by and your production numbers shrink. You might also stop producing somethings altogether (or subbing lower tech) if the materials weren't available (say because the only mine for it kept getting overrun).

Your full battle armor with 10x enhancement might be impossible for the STC to build with what you have, but maybe you get bright and tell it to build what it can... say a heavy cargo lifter (with 3x) and attach regular steel plates to the outside. It would still be better than nothing when a "lion" shows up.

Given that the colonizer landed on a deathworld, I would heavily suspect that the original settlement was founded around and within the ship (and it's STC's - both plans and factories). The ship would've been their only protection until they could beat the forest back a bit and start building. Plus, we've always known the DA had access to older tech, especially plasma, the STC's would explain this.

Huh, that just put an intruiging idea in my head. The Rock is the remains of the largest fortress. If that fortress was built over the remains of the oldest settlement and it's possible the settlement was built on top of or around the ship... It's possible that the original colony ship (or parts of it) are intact in the Rock.

The Warmaster
11-04-2013, 07:15
IIRC, how they produced these pieces of tech wasn't specified, but there's a possible explanation if you contrast it with the events on Menazoid Epsilon in the first Gaunt's Ghosts book (First and Only spoilers, in case some of you haven't read it):

Menazoid Epsilon was an armoury world during the Dark Age of Technology, which seemed to have completely reverted to wilderness by the time that the Ghosts were fighting Chaos forces there in M41. This is no surprise, considering that the vast majority of human constructs on Earth today (save some in optimal conditions, like Shackleton's hut in Antarctica) would be gone or degraded beyond recognition in 1,000 years of humans dying out, let alone 15,000.

Anyway, to the point: they discovered a Standard Template Construct fabricator that made Men of Iron (humanoid AIs from the DAoT) in a cave system there. It had become tainted by Chaos at some point, either due to the current Chaos presence there or as a result of something earlier, but it was otherwise intact (along with the chamber it was in, and hundreds of premade and still-functional MoI stationed there). Considering this, it's not a stretch to assume that the knightly orders of Caliban may have also had working STC constructors available to them. Also, keep in mind that the constructors were made to require as little human effort as possible in their operation, as long as sufficient materials were available to make them work - there's an amusing background piece about functional Rhino tanks made of wood that emphasises this. :P

TheDungen
13-04-2013, 09:01
Hmm that is an interesting idea that the tower of angels might have been built around a starship, and it would explain why it survived the warpstorm in one piece.