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ToXiK
07-04-2013, 15:31
In a one on one competion which character ( not including primarchs) from the hh books.

I would personally go with kharn
Your thoughts?

Edit
Or the big E

Chem-Dog
07-04-2013, 15:45
As much as I would like to say Loken or Lucius, I think Bear would have the unbeatable edge, doing what it takes, even sustaining injury, to get the kill stroke.... they don't train that.

Fizzy
07-04-2013, 16:38
I would say Kharn as well. Mostly because all the books I've read about him and I built my own pre heresy version of him.

He is a strong leader that ignores injuries and pain to finish what his primarch wants him to do. Still to this day he does what his primarch demands of him! A really loyal warrior.

Arthanor
07-04-2013, 16:52
I would say Kharn (the Betrayer) [...] A really loyal warrior.

:D Talking about Betrayer, isn't it in that book that it is said that Sigismund is unbeaten in the World Eaters' arena? Only to first blood, but not to get hit at all takes quite some skill.

ToXiK
07-04-2013, 16:53
As much as I would like to say Loken or Lucius, I think Bear would have the unbeatable edge, doing what it takes, even sustaining injury, to get the kill stroke.... they don't train that.

well both have been heavily beaten in the books abbadon i think might ne up there as well as kharn and probabally sevetar

Nikolaus
07-04-2013, 17:00
As much as I would like to say Loken or Lucius, I think Bear would have the unbeatable edge, doing what it takes, even sustaining injury, to get the kill stroke.... they don't train that.

I second this.. The only Space Marine to survive the heresy uncorrupted.. and maybe the oldest "living" space marine ever.. (due to time in the warp being more relative than linear)


Though for my answer?

I would say The Emperor. You said no Primarch, no mention of The False Emperor anywhere.

MR.Tea
07-04-2013, 18:33
Lucius or Kharn...no other character shows so much skill...bear in mind i havent read all HH books, around 50% of them...s jugment is based on that note...
Although, the WE are my favorite legion, Lucius is my favorite character...so my vote goes to him...

As I remember Lucius sees only Sigismund as worthy oponent...so he could be in top 5...

daismith906
07-04-2013, 18:54
Lucius got owned by a certain raven guard marine who likes the shadows lol!

In Betrayer, kharn was getting beaten by a ultramarine capt till surroudning events intervined

Id say Sigismund but in Fear to Tread (forget the marines name) but a hes called the flesh tearer & has eveyones respect in cc

ToXiK
07-04-2013, 20:04
His name was amon i believe got his nick name the flesh tearer from the we fighting pits sigismonds getting some love im starting to fall towards sevetar more and more what with his special power wink wink

Stonerhino
07-04-2013, 20:19
As much as I would like to say Loken or Lucius, I think Bear would have the unbeatable edge, doing what it takes, even sustaining injury, to get the kill stroke.... they don't train that.Bear, interesting. In one of the book Lucius mentions that "That" type of warrior he would have trouble with.

However my vote goes for Babu Dhakal, Arik Taranis, the Lightning Bearer, the Throne-slayer, ect. A man who won battles so amazing that the in universe historians believe them to be hyperbole.

Lord Zarkov
07-04-2013, 20:31
His name was amon i believe got his nick name the flesh tearer from the we fighting pits sigismonds getting some love im starting to fall towards sevetar more and more what with his special power wink wink

Spoiler from Chosen of Khorne (audiodrama)

He might well have later been killed by Kharn (sans Gorechild) - there is an ex BA marine in there called the Flesh Tearer who Kharn is forced to fight, and he beats him despite initially being armed with a scappy sword.

Fizzy
07-04-2013, 20:32
:D Talking about Betrayer, isn't it in that book that it is said that Sigismund is unbeaten in the World Eaters' arena? Only to first blood, but not to get hit at all takes quite some skill.

He is a loyal warrior :) To his primarch and thats all that matters! :)

Indeed. He beats him without almost any effort I would say.


Kharn knows the true way of the World eaters. Thats at least my way of looking at it after reading some books where he appears.

ToXiK
07-04-2013, 20:38
Spoiler from Chosen of Khorne (audiodrama)

He might well have later been killed by Kharn (sans Gorechild) - there is an ex BA marine in there called the Flesh Tearer who Kharn is forced to fight, and he beats him despite initially being armed with a scappy sword.

I havent heard that one but but that would be the one in butchers nails kharn says he and sigismond are the two he would most regret killing lol

titilititi
07-04-2013, 22:08
Eldrad Ulthran

Drakcore Bloodtear
08-04-2013, 17:57
I seem to remember a list that floated around for a while, originally said by AD-B IIRC (however I'm not to certain about it) that the greatest fighters of all the SM Legions were (in no particular order):
Sigismund
Kharn
Sevatar
And the WS First Captain

Hopefully someone else can remember or find evidence for this, because I personally like the fact that the WS have someone going for them.

A Shadow
08-04-2013, 22:49
The Greater Demon of Khorne.

Of the Astartes characters, Lucius is the best swordsmen in the Children, Sharrowkyn is his equal at least. Sigismund and Sevatar dueled for 15 hours so they seem equal. Bjorn is never mentioned as being the best of the Wolves. Kharn is renowned for his aggression. The Tetrachs of the Ultramarines are mentioned as being highly skilled, as is the Paladin from the Dark Angels who was on Tsagulsa . . . I think I spelt that wrong

Roowfc
08-04-2013, 23:44
The emperor- doh!

Inquisitor Engel
09-04-2013, 00:22
Of the Astartes characters, Lucius is the best swordsmen in the Children, Sharrowkyn is his equal at least.

Lucius never even comes close to touching Sharrowkyn.

A Shadow
09-04-2013, 01:08
If Lucius had taken their first duel seriously he may have

Fizzy
09-04-2013, 03:12
...Kharn is renowned for his aggression....

That is a dull description of Kharn. He is skilled in so many areas. He is not just famous for being aggressive in battle. Back during the Crusade and Heresy he was the one to calm his brothers as well.

MR.Tea
09-04-2013, 07:58
Lucius never even comes close to touching Sharrowkyn.
That is one problem with HH books....Throughout all EC-related books, Lucius is said to be one the best swordsman...In Galaxy in Flames, he is considered to be the best of all...and then he loses the abovementioned fight so easily, like just another regular marine...Yes, there was that jump-pack malfunction, and somekind of RG" here but not here" trick...but still...too easy

AE spoiler
He had to die in Angel exterminatus, for one reason...so he can be "reborn" and so we can see that he is not just another marine, but something special

Inquisitor Engel
09-04-2013, 15:08
That is one problem with HH books....Throughout all EC-related books, Lucius is said to be one the best swordsman...In Galaxy in Flames, he is considered to be the best of all...and then he loses the abovementioned fight so easily, like just another regular marine...Yes, there was that jump-pack malfunction, and somekind of RG" here but not here" trick...but still...too easy

IMHO Lucius' "greatness" is not only shown as a gross exaggeration on his own part, but even amongst the other Emperor's Children to show their own arrogance to so assuredly put forward one of their own as "THE greatest."

Lucius also can't have been THAT good, as Sharrowkyn has no idea who he is other than noticing his relative skill on the battlefield. The greatest fighters we know of all seem to know each other (Sharrowkyn being the exception because he's a new character and the Raven Guard are rather humble like that) Khârn, Sigismund, Sevetar, etc. Lucius doesn't ever seem to pop up in those internal monologues, and probably for good reason - he's just not that good, he's just the best at ASPIRING (and perhaps, lying to himself).

Johnnya10
09-04-2013, 16:21
Ooooh... This is a tough one. Sevetar is a favourite of mine - as is Lucius - but could they deal with Kharn? Not so sure. He's pretty skilful and his aggression makes him a bit of a beast. I'd be interested to see what happens with Sharrowkyn - I'm wondering if he'll be the first person to 'kill' Lucius, and then becomes Lucius... we shall see. It'll also be interesting to see the transformation of Typhon into Typhus. But, at the moment, all things considered, I'm going with Kharn. Or Sigismund... Nope. I can't make the call.

Gimp
09-04-2013, 16:47
Remember guys Sigismund is the one who kills Kharn at the Imperial Palace. So yeah he is better than Kharn.

Inquisitor Engel
09-04-2013, 17:03
I'm wondering if he'll be the first person to 'kill' Lucius, and then becomes Lucius... we shall see.

Angel Exterminatus Spoiler:
Yes. Sharrowkyn kills Lucius, but if he transforms into Lucius, that's an unequivocal no. Lucius' first death is very different from the deaths and rebirths he experiences later. He just wakes up.


Remember guys Sigismund is the one who kills Kharn at the Imperial Palace. So yeah he is better than Kharn.

Is that confirmed anywhere?

Horus Lupercal
09-04-2013, 17:22
I personally think Lucius sucks and his reputation is as mentioned above; a figment of his own and his brothers arrogance.

How many times has Lucius died?! If he were to face many of 40k's current champions they would slay him outright, Dante, Ragnar, Lysander and Many others would take him out. I'm not even going to consider Kharn, that fights over before it even happens!!

Also I think Kharn may be the only one who could permanently down him, slaanesh would try to re birth Lucius but khorne wouldn't let him!

ToXiK
09-04-2013, 18:01
Interesting horus i was thinking this the other day if lucius and kharn meet in 40k would kharn take anything from the fight other that lucius head?

Loken technically beat kharn with the help of a rhino and he beat lucius in round one but then erebus beat loken easy and kharn ownes erebus my money is still on sevetar

A Shadow
09-04-2013, 21:35
Lucius may be boasting, but he is skilled, he and Erebus go at it for 16min of non-stop action. On reflection I'd lean towards Sigismund.

=Angel=
13-04-2013, 15:43
Ahriman. Ko by magic missile/lightning bolt/heat or ice beams in 0 seconds flat.

Fizzy
13-04-2013, 15:51
Interesting horus i was thinking this the other day if lucius and kharn meet in 40k would kharn take anything from the fight other that lucius head?

Loken technically beat kharn with the help of a rhino and he beat lucius in round one but then erebus beat loken easy and kharn ownes erebus my money is still on sevetar

Actually Kharn jumped Loken and as I remember it Kharn had the upper hand for a while but then a Land raider came by and impaled Kharn on its spikes in the front. But he survived that and fought on and still lives today.

Memnos
13-04-2013, 16:17
Any character from the books? I'm going to say the Slayer of Worlds would win the title of hardest character if we're ignoring Primarchs. He was a Bloodthirster after all. ;)

MisterCyto
18-04-2013, 21:11
No doubt that Sharrowkyn bested Lucius, especially given the way in which he "killed" him. However, I believe it's unfair to judge them all in the same way. (These are all just my personal opinions from the few HH books ive started reading) In a sword fight Sharrowkyn is the best, in a straight up fight with rules ie done properly in a cage, Sigismund would win (kharn would break the rules). In a brawl with no rules Kharn would win, there is method to his "madness". Abandon and Loken I can't say, as I haven't read HH in order and have read no books with them in yet, although Loken survives Istvan so he seems resilient. Sevatar is my personal favourite, sarcastic badass of the galaxy, and is IMO tied with Kharn and Siggismund, though his "skills" could be a winning edge. Then there's Ahriman. The guy who could, if he looked into Magnus' special book, probably wipe you out of history with a thought *slight over exaggeration*. I suppose the Alpha Legion would win in the end, having a legion on Primarchs and all :p
re read the OP, Valdor wins. Maybe not against a Primarchs, but a marine definitely.

exsanguis
23-04-2013, 13:16
Yeh Sevatar and Sigismund seem like "the dudes" to me. Erebus is also meant to be a bit of a badass too. What about Raldoron and the other BA dude?

Who's this mythical White Scar that is meant to be awesome? Must know more! More love for the White Scars can only be a good thing :)

MR.Tea
23-04-2013, 16:06
What to read to get some info on Sevatar and Sigismund?

Furls
23-04-2013, 21:32
At the time of the Heresy Lucius was an unknown. The other names had been around a long time and built up their reputations. Lucius only begins his rise within the stories.

When debating a topic like this taking particular incidents can not always result in an absolute. One fighter can not always trump the same other fighter. Circumstances or simply an oversight on a fighters part on the day has an effect.

MisterCyto
23-04-2013, 22:02
Read Shadows of Treachery for info on both Sigismund and Sevatar.