PDA

View Full Version : Soul Grinder 'Caught by the Iron Claw'



Iraf
09-04-2013, 06:49
So my question is this. If you target a rank and file (RnF) model in base contact and the model fails the initiative test, do you auto hit 4 RnF models (4 is the Soul Grinders base attacks)? With the current 'step up' system I'm getting that impression. Exact wording of rule for those without the Daemon book:

Immediately before the Soul Grinder makes its Attacks, nominate one model in base contact with the Soul Grinder. That model must pass an Initiative test. If the test is passed, nothing happens. If the test is failed, all other attacks the Soul Grinder makes against that model this turn hit automatically.

Zoolander
09-04-2013, 07:01
It means you may attack that target with as many attacks as you like and they will auto hit. Should you choose to disperse your attacks to the whole unit, then you will roll to hit with those directed at the unit.

Iraf
09-04-2013, 07:10
It means you may attack that target with as many attacks as you like and they will auto hit. Should you choose to disperse your attacks to the whole unit, then you will roll to hit with those directed at the unit.

I would agree with that interpretation were it a character, or a champion. Directing attacks at RnF are directed at the unit. And in cases where you are only in base contact with 1 RnF (Stonegrinder in the flank of a single rank of Saurus Warrior unit for example), being able to only to kill one model because it failed it's initiative test of 1 seems a bit off.

FatTrucker
09-04-2013, 12:15
It represents one model being grabbed and held by the claw so any attacks against that model auto hit, doesn't transfer to other models in the unit.

Saldiven
09-04-2013, 12:22
It represents one model being grabbed and held by the claw so any attacks against that model auto hit, doesn't transfer to other models in the unit.

That's a fluff explanation, not a rules explanation.

What do the rules say about attacks directed at Rank and File models?

Avian
09-04-2013, 12:35
If you want to get technical, there's nothing in the rulebook that allows the big nasty to specifically target the grabbed model, you can only divide attacks between enemies with different profiles.

Thus whatever the Sould Grinder's rules say is everything there is concerning the matter. It says that it can make attacks against that model. So you can allocate however many you wish against it. Since it's still a rank and file model, excess wounds will carry over onto the unit.

So you can essentially grab four guys with the claw, because there are no rules that allow you to target specific r&f.

FatTrucker
09-04-2013, 12:47
Then it needs an FAQ because thats clearly not the intention, as it would otherwise specify one unit in B2B contact, not one model.

Avian
09-04-2013, 12:52
*shrug*

There is nothing that prevents GW writers from not knowing the meaning and consequences of their own rules. ;)

Saldiven
09-04-2013, 12:57
Then it needs an FAQ because thats clearly not the intention, as it would otherwise specify one unit in B2B contact, not one model.

If the rules work fine, it doesn't need a FAQ simply because the rules don't match the fluff.

If it said "unit in B2B," then the attack could not be used to target a specific individual like a character or unit champion. As written, it can be either used against a unit of rank and file or against an individual character.

Honestly, it still doesn't make up for the fact that the Soulgrinder is only WS3 with 4 attacks.

decker_cky
09-04-2013, 20:02
Similar situation occurs with Cygors attacking standard bearers. They can allocate all their attacks on a standard bearer with a magic banner (see FAQ) and the rules for the banner mean that others just keep picking up the banner.

BTW, to get technical, with the Soul Grinder, wouldn't you continuously attack the same model, with wounds being removed from the back ranks?

Avian
09-04-2013, 20:07
Not sure what you mean. Standard casualty removal rules apply, because oddly enough there's no exception.

Iraf
09-04-2013, 20:40
It can definitely be confusing. I believe Avian has it right as far as the rules. Doubt it will get any sort of FAQ, considering that is probably the last thing that needs a FAQ. Then again, GW likes to answer the obscure questions and answer the important ones with obscurity.

Glemigobles
09-04-2013, 22:25
I'm no expert at rules but isn't it that you actually can nominate a target in RnF if it has a champion? For me this rule is a hero/new "pop-up" unit add-ons/champion super sniper rule in CC. It isn't unknown for certain units in WFB to swap their attacks for auto hit (in fact soulgrinder has that kind of option) so it isn't weird that it can exchange the "hit them all on 4+" for "hit one but hard!". I certainly would argue if my daemon playing friend would try to cheese on me with an explanation that goes like this - "so I have a special rule which gives me auto hits if I nominate a model but since I can't nominate one (although in many cases he would be) I'll just auto hit your RnF anyways..." If it should be that way why even bother in giving him a WS value...or such a rule instead of writing - Special rules: Terror, Large Target, bla bla bla, auto hits everything

But I might be wrong since I'm not very smart or educated

decker_cky
09-04-2013, 22:35
Regardless, from the Cygor FAQ, they can nominate a standard bearer. No reason for a Soul Grinder to be unable to do the same.