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selecta
10-04-2013, 18:31
If you kill a unit by them failing their ld tests can u overrun?

Iraf
10-04-2013, 18:51
Undead don't take a Ld test, they just crumble by the amount they lose by. Give or take a few points if they have Bsb/construct etc.

If a unit crumbles, you are unable to overrun. Covered in the latest Warhammer 1.7 FAQ

MOMUS
11-04-2013, 06:57
Due to this FAQ all swarms (which have the unstable rule) have now become much more effective units as speedbumps/redirectors.

Blkc57
11-04-2013, 15:07
Due to this FAQ all swarms (which have the unstable rule) have now become much more effective units as speedbumps/redirectors.

Only if they die by the unstable rule MOMUS, if they are just straight killed before combat resolution that unit is still going to be overrunning.

selecta
11-04-2013, 15:14
Only if they die by the unstable rule MOMUS, if they are just straight killed before combat resolution that unit is still going to be overrunning.

I got the FAQ today and thinking about investing more points in swarms. This will be quite helpful in the tournament I got next sat.

byrothegyro
11-04-2013, 16:21
It also makes the raise dead spell much more effective. You can cast it right in front of an enemy unit and as long as they don't kill the whole thing they will be stuck for a nice counter charge.

Iraf
11-04-2013, 16:34
It also makes the raise dead spell much more effective. You can cast it right in front of an enemy unit and as long as they don't kill the whole thing they will be stuck for a nice counter charge.

Yes, the raise dead spell is an exceptional spell. It either blocks an opponents unit or soaks up their dispel dice.

MOMUS
11-04-2013, 16:57
Only if they die by the unstable rule MOMUS, if they are just straight killed before combat resolution that unit is still going to be overrunning.

Hence why EVERYONE runs swarm units 1 base wide, 2 deep. Very few units can dish out enough wounds from that frontage to kill both bases outright. No overrun :)

T10
12-04-2013, 06:57
If you kill a unit by them failing their ld tests can u overrun?

If a unit with models with the Undead special rule sucessfully breaks or destroyes an enemy unit then it can indeed overrun or pursue as normal.

-T10

igortheugly
12-04-2013, 06:57
yep zombie conga line time every time (where possible):)

DaemonReign
14-04-2013, 01:01
yep zombie conga line time every time (where possible):)

You mean where-ever you don't have a parking-lot to walk through on your way home? ;)

theunwantedbeing
14-04-2013, 09:31
Hence why EVERYONE runs swarm units 1 base wide, 2 deep. Very few units can dish out enough wounds from that frontage to kill both bases outright. No overrun :)

Indeed, perfectly legal but not quite in the spirit of the game.
Alas, the rules will always have interesting interpretations.

FatTrucker
14-04-2013, 19:45
Not sure why you would run swarms 1 wide 2 deep as a unit. In a lot of cases wounds + res for ranks, charging, standard etc will provide enough res to lose the lot to instability.
I run 2 seperately and slightly offset so if one goes in combat the overrun just hits the other.
Same net effect but no danger of losing them both in one turn to instability.

MOMUS
14-04-2013, 20:20
Not sure why you would run swarms 1 wide 2 deep as a unit. In a lot of cases wounds + res for ranks, charging, standard etc will provide enough res to lose the lot to instability.
I run 2 seperately and slightly offset so if one goes in combat the overrun just hits the other.
Same net effect but no danger of losing them both in one turn to instability.

You havent quite got the point of the thread.

The aim of that unit is to die from instability, you want it to crumble so the enemy unit gets no overrun as per the FAQ.

FatTrucker
14-04-2013, 21:03
Yeah I understand that. What I mean is that you still run the risk of losing the whole unit to instability leaving the charger free to move/charge in the following turn. Offsetting them as separate units means even if one is destroyed in combat allowing an overrun all it does is hit the second swarm having the same net effect and possibly tying it up for movement/charging in the next turn if it has some duff dice in the next combat.
Basically it offers a small potential benefit with no loss of effectiveness from running them as a unit, and if they're charged by something hitting hard enough to potentially do 10 wounds a unit will be wiped out and overrun, 2 separate swarms won't.

Glen_Savet
15-04-2013, 04:51
Having them die to crumble means they're not in the way for your inevitable counter-charge. At least, that's my intent.

Spiney Norman
15-04-2013, 08:21
Yeah I understand that. What I mean is that you still run the risk of losing the whole unit to instability leaving the charger free to move/charge in the following turn. Offsetting them as separate units means even if one is destroyed in combat allowing an overrun all it does is hit the second swarm having the same net effect and possibly tying it up for movement/charging in the next turn if it has some duff dice in the next combat.
Basically it offers a small potential benefit with no loss of effectiveness from running them as a unit, and if they're charged by something hitting hard enough to potentially do 10 wounds a unit will be wiped out and overrun, 2 separate swarms won't.

Except if they charge the swarm in their turn they won't get to move and charge in the next turn because it will be your turn, and the countercharge you have already lined up will be able to hit home while the target unit is still stuck in place from crumbling the swarm.

Of course this only really works well for units like cavalry and chariots who actually get measurable benefits from charging, losing two swarm bases for the sake of a giving a counter charging infantry unit a measly +1 CR is probably not a worthwhile expenditure of points IMHO.

MOMUS
15-04-2013, 10:30
Having them die to crumble means they're not in the way for your inevitable counter-charge. At least, that's my intent.

This.

Enemy unit is stuck ready to be charged by your units on your turn with your magic phase, its a fundemental warhammer practice.