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Demiurg
10-04-2013, 21:56
Would they? As I'm thinking of adding some to my riptide.

MajorWesJanson
10-04-2013, 22:07
On one hand, nose art is both frivolous and highly individualistic, not really part of the Greater Good. On the other, custom art does not inhibit operations in any way like medals or other bling, and would likely only be allowed for well respected and honored warriors, the type who pilot Riptide suits, and it could make for added inspiration or intimidation of the enemy.

So with the Ethereal's permission, go for it.

Rogue Star
10-04-2013, 22:21
Would they? As I'm thinking of adding some to my riptide.

Depends what it is. I doubt Tau put female pin-ups on their battlesuits for example...

Demiurg
10-04-2013, 22:26
The sunshark was going to have a kroot beast roaring. The riptide would probably have some sort of playing card decoration.

MajorWesJanson
10-04-2013, 23:04
The sunshark was going to have a kroot beast roaring. The riptide would probably have some sort of playing card decoration.

168475

This would fit.

otakuzoku
11-04-2013, 00:37
the farsight enclave would probley have such things.

Kakapo42
11-04-2013, 07:36
Would they? As I'm thinking of adding some to my riptide.

I would say yes. They already have slogans written on their vehicles (they're on the transfer sheet, written in Tau), as well as special designs to denote command elements, so I don't see why not. It would certainly be inspiring if done right.

Besides, there's also the most important reason to do it: it would look awesome.

budman
11-04-2013, 07:45
Depends what it is. I doubt Tau put female pin-ups on their battlesuits for example...

That assumes cute fishy girls don't boost moral (for thegreater good) :)
Given the tau are a mixed forces they may paint cute boys on the side as well and given it's tau who are not known for exaggerated secondarysexual characteristics – looking at you dark elder, How can you tell the difference. :shifty:
I can see Hello kooty… :D
And tau playing cards Could look strange .

Kakapo42
11-04-2013, 08:30
168475

This would fit.

That got me thinking about this (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UlGTMxpORLk/UOHWg08RYhI/AAAAAAAASoY/1vC0FZkTjfU/s1600/509th%2BBomb%2BWing.jpg) design. Perhaps a variation of it could work?

Demiurg
11-04-2013, 11:49
That assumes cute fishy girls don't boost moral (for thegreater good) :)
Given the tau are a mixed forces they may paint cute boys on the side as well and given it's tau who are not known for exaggerated secondarysexual characteristics – looking at you dark elder, How can you tell the difference. :shifty:
I can see Hello kooty… :D
And tau playing cards Could look strange .

Tau playing cards would probably be based on the castes as the four suites ( at least thats my inital thought )
with elthreals as aces

im just waiting on my order to come to start painting.

Kakapo42
11-04-2013, 11:58
Tau playing cards would probably be based on the castes as the four suites ( at least thats my inital thought )
with elthreals as aces

im just waiting on my order to come to start painting.

I think perhaps instead of the castes in their own right, the four suites of Tau playing cards might use stylised symbolic representations of them, something like stones (Earth), drops (Water), wind gusts (Air) and sparks (Fire), or maybe arrows (Fire, the principle classic warrior weapon of the Tau was the bow rather than the sword), wings (air, 'nuff said), shovels (Earth, also quite self explanatory) and coins (Water). I wonder what the joker analogue would be?

Horus38
11-04-2013, 12:21
the farsight enclave would probley have such things.

I believe the new codex specifically talks about how current sightings of the enclaves have shown their insignias and markings to have merged/changed from the those Septs they came from. It's definitely more unusual to see these kinds of deviations from the standard patterns, but it's your army, do what looks good to you! :)

Demiurg
11-04-2013, 13:59
I think perhaps instead of the castes in their own right, the four suites of Tau playing cards might use stylised symbolic representations of them, something like stones (Earth), drops (Water), wind gusts (Air) and sparks (Fire), or maybe arrows (Fire, the principle classic warrior weapon of the Tau was the bow rather than the sword), wings (air, 'nuff said), shovels (Earth, also quite self explanatory) and coins (Water). I wonder what the joker analogue would be?

I like the second option better mind if i use that?

baphomael
11-04-2013, 14:49
Would Tau even have an analogue for playing cards? Gambling is something I dont think the Tau would really 'get' - gambling seems too reckless and self centred, taking unnesserary risks to gain at the expense of your castemates seems something that'd likely be discouraged if not strait up inconceivable.

Id imagine if the Tau played games they'd emphasise communal effort and group success rather than personal success - the group wins or loses together, not the individual.

Retrospectus
11-04-2013, 14:58
Would Tau even have an analogue for playing cards? Gambling is something I dont think the Tau would really 'get' - gambling seems too reckless and self centred, taking unnesserary risks to gain at the expense of your castemates seems something that'd likely be discouraged if not strait up inconceivable.

Id imagine if the Tau played games they'd emphasise communal effort and group success rather than personal success - the group wins or loses together, not the individual.

How bout bridge? that's a team game?

The bearded one
11-04-2013, 15:51
Depends what it is. I doubt Tau put female pin-ups on their battlesuits for example...

Imagine if some pecky tau went to town like this on shadowsun's battlesuit :p

Demiurg
11-04-2013, 18:50
Would Tau even have an analogue for playing cards? Gambling is something I dont think the Tau would really 'get' - gambling seems too reckless and self centred, taking unnesserary risks to gain at the expense of your castemates seems something that'd likely be discouraged if not strait up inconceivable.

Id imagine if the Tau played games they'd emphasise communal effort and group success rather than personal success - the group wins or loses together, not the individual.

Playing cards were invented as an almanac. The gambling bit came much later.

danny-d-b
11-04-2013, 19:57
Would Tau even have an analogue for playing cards? Gambling is something I dont think the Tau would really 'get' - gambling seems too reckless and self centred, taking unnesserary risks to gain at the expense of your castemates seems something that'd likely be discouraged if not strait up inconceivable.

Id imagine if the Tau played games they'd emphasise communal effort and group success rather than personal success - the group wins or loses together, not the individual.



i've now got an immage of tau sat around playing muchkin- 'sure o'sharva I'll help you for 3 treasure'

Kakapo42
11-04-2013, 20:24
I like the second option better mind if i use that?

Not at all, you go right on ahead and use it. :)

baphomael
12-04-2013, 01:23
Playing cards were invented as an almanac. The gambling bit came much later.

True but that's hardly where I'd assume military uses of playing cards come from :p I dont think a Firewarrior would necessarily appreciate the meaning behind such symbology.

Having said that, its not to say they dont have their own forms of expression. Though id imagine they'd focus more on their part of the whole or the team rather than individuality. A human pilot I could imagine using the callsign "Maverick" for example, but not really a Tau pilot.

Better to avoid using real world military analogues, and try thinking what the Tau alien mindset might be like and imagine how they might approach such a thing.

Despite not being remotely communist in the academic sense, id imagine Tau military graffitti would have more in common with Soviet tank slogans or even, perhaps, a bit like russian gang tattoos in which certain symbols and words mark a persons life and contributions... in the same way thst tau names develop I could see vehicle markings develop to mark that Taus notable contributions to the wider whole.

budman
12-04-2013, 08:00
True but that's hardly where I'd assume military uses of playing cards come from :p I dont think a Firewarrior would necessarily appreciate the meaning behind such symbology.

Having said that, its not to say they dont have their own forms of expression. Though id imagine they'd focus more on their part of the whole or the team rather than individuality. A human pilot I could imagine using the callsign "Maverick" for example, but not really a Tau pilot.

Better to avoid using real world military analogues, and try thinking what the Tau alien mindset might be like and imagine how they might approach such a thing.

Despite not being remotely communist in the academic sense, id imagine Tau military graffitti would have more in common with Soviet tank slogans or even, perhaps, a bit like russian gang tattoos in which certain symbols and words mark a persons life and contributions... in the same way thst tau names develop I could see vehicle markings develop to mark that Taus notable contributions to the wider whole.

I saw on ebay a tau hammer head with the the greater good in tau script on the side
It looked awesome

Easy E
12-04-2013, 12:44
If you want to do it, do it. That is the only justification you need when it come sto the models you have bought and are painting.

Iron_Lord
12-04-2013, 16:25
Having said that, its not to say they dont have their own forms of expression. Though id imagine they'd focus more on their part of the whole or the team rather than individuality. A human pilot I could imagine using the callsign "Maverick" for example, but not really a Tau pilot.
If Tau Fire Warriors can earn Big Names, so to speak "Darkstryder" "Longknife" and so on, why not Air Caste pilots?

Demiurg
12-04-2013, 19:52
I've created a p&m log if anybodys interested.

carlisimo
12-04-2013, 23:00
If Tau Fire Warriors can earn Big Names, so to speak "Darkstryder" "Longknife" and so on, why not Air Caste pilots?

Good point. I can imagine them painting a rendition of those nicknames on their machinery. They do seem more likely to go with highly stylized art, but that’s not a big deal.

DoomedDiceThrower
13-04-2013, 03:04
I would also try to take the perspective of a confucian mindset, since that's a very heavy influence on their culture, what with the reverence of elders (ethereals), respect to traditions and generally the contribution to the greater good, putting the self behind, and serve the community. It's as much a valid point as the more down-to-earth coldwar-communism analogies.

They like wise quotes a lot, and also they like metaphors. The Tau Commanders voicelines in Dawn of War: Retribution includes "Scatter like winds and leaves!" (when triggering a pulse ability that I suspect to be the inspiration for the Repulsor Impact Field), or "Even when broken, a sword may still cut!" (when reviving a fallen friendly player, which I learned is itself a quote from the novel Fire Warrior I think).

It's a very eastasian thing. In that sense, seeing the Fire Caste do their profession with a more sacred solemn pride than your ruff and rude Catachan warrior, I see them less doing "badass" artwork like gambling themes and definitely no sexual references. More I see them following the "perfection in all things" way, like trying to make nose art REAL pieces of artwork, not necessarily by over-the-top effort in the painting style, it can still be pragmatic, but in the choosing of a subtle and relevant reference to some cultural traditional motives, which might carry a deeper meaning (like bamboo being a very noble symbol in chinese, for it's reliable sturdiness while still being flexible if need be.... or something like that, I'm studying chinese, but I'm largely talking out of my a.. here). I mean stylised bamboo would probably suck as nose art, but maybe you catch my drift. Like, stuff you would come up with after meditating at sunrise, not while drinking with your comrades in a pub.

In ancient asian historical references they attest all kind of near-superpowers to sages and great generals which were actual historical persons. Tau would not go that far I guess, but I could see a stylised dramatic Puretide painted on an aircraft.
Maybe in this style?
168687

In the end, it should be something proud, paying reverence to traditions and culture. Not pornography or eye-winking display of bad habits if you know what I mean.

And always remember:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj6yQx16grk

EDIT: Just had an idea what could definitely be a such a powerful symbol for Tau. Mount Kan'ji. Just mentioned once in the codex as puretide's retreat, but the note emanated a gravity like Japan's Mount Fuji, which is VERY pittoresque, even stylised:

168688

That could be such a subtle symbol that for every Tau could be synonymous with Puretide, or whatever Kan'ji was for them before that. Maybe not the most striking nose art motive, and difficult to make look good I imagine, but it's a good example of what I mean. Striking great pride into every Taus' heart, and being a fearsome giant flaming red mountain in the enemies eyes. Think asian!

Rogue Star
13-04-2013, 10:34
Pretty much... everything DoomedDiceThrower said, sums up my thoughts on Tau applying artwork to their war machines.

effbomber
13-04-2013, 10:42
I think card themes would be cool if you took the time to make them alien. As in inventing suits which are allusions to tau history and culture in the same way that our playing cards represent ours. Also keep in mind that tau count in base 12.

Sai-Lauren
13-04-2013, 14:49
the farsight enclave would probley have such things.
I could see Farsight's Tau having Ork trophies (mainly as a copy of the Orks having Tau trophies), but I'm not sure about nose art.

At best they might have slogans carefully painted on.

But hey, they're your models, if you want them, then in your particular part of the 40k universe, they do. :)

ForgottenLore
13-04-2013, 17:07
Also keep in mind that tau count in base 12.

WTF??? Where did you get that? It has been largely accepted that Tau use a base 8 numbering system.

effbomber
14-04-2013, 10:23
WTF??? Where did you get that? It has been largely accepted that Tau use a base 8 numbering system.

Oh yeah, you're right. I must have got confused. I was reading about the dozenal society the other day so base 12 was on my mind.

baphomael
14-04-2013, 14:44
If Tau Fire Warriors can earn Big Names, so to speak "Darkstryder" "Longknife" and so on, why not Air Caste pilots?

Yea, sorry, I was speaking specifically about the name "maverick"... that kind of reckless individuality, the idea of celebrating a kind of devil may care attitude, probably wouldnt sit well with the tau way or the ideology of the greater good. Tau Big Names reflect achievements that have helped the greater good, or signify a particular set of skills that individusl brings to the greater good. Im sure the aircaste does the same. Tau names are more like medals in that regard.

Thrax
17-04-2013, 06:07
Why not? I know the nose art got pretty elaborate on American planes in WWII; in fact once the Americans got wind that it was offending the sensibilities of their Japanese counterparts the art became even more ribald. So maybe the Tau aren't just decorating their machines but they are taking jibes at the enemy. That way you can justify almost any art without having to explain whether or not the Tau conceptualize human traits.

Emperor's Grace
18-04-2013, 16:17
Would Tau even have an analogue for playing cards? Gambling is something I dont think the Tau would really 'get' - gambling seems too reckless and self centred, taking unnesserary risks to gain at the expense of your castemates seems something that'd likely be discouraged if not strait up inconceivable.

Id imagine if the Tau played games they'd emphasise communal effort and group success rather than personal success - the group wins or loses together, not the individual.

So, they're into euro style cooperative boardgames?

DoomedDiceThrower
18-04-2013, 18:10
Why not? I know the nose art got pretty elaborate on American planes in WWII; in fact once the Americans got wind that it was offending the sensibilities of their Japanese counterparts the art became even more ribald. So maybe the Tau aren't just decorating their machines but they are taking jibes at the enemy. That way you can justify almost any art without having to explain whether or not the Tau conceptualize human traits.

Thing is I think in your analogy Tau would rather take the place of the Japanese. Being very traditional and following "the Art of War", I personally don't think they would be like the Americans, even if they're a very educated race that understands the concept of psychological warfare. It doesn't fit with their culture. Like the way they find close combat primitive or are not happy about the carnivorous behaviour of their Kroot allies, whereas a Space Wolf for example would possibly take grim pride seeing his pet cyberwolf maul an enemy. So I'd say overly ribald material is out. They wouldn't paint anything that defaces the elegance of instruments of the greater good and could make an ethereal blush.

Thrax
18-04-2013, 19:03
Thing is I think in your analogy Tau would rather take the place of the Japanese. Being very traditional and following "the Art of War", I personally don't think they would be like the Americans, even if they're a very educated race that understands the concept of psychological warfare. It doesn't fit with their culture. Like the way they find close combat primitive or are not happy about the carnivorous behaviour of their Kroot allies, whereas a Space Wolf for example would possibly take grim pride seeing his pet cyberwolf maul an enemy. So I'd say overly ribald material is out. They wouldn't paint anything that defaces the elegance of instruments of the greater good and could make an ethereal blush.

Hmmm...perhaps so. The Tau may have nose art but it probably would be reserved to certain "for the greater good" themes. As long as the OP considers this he should be allowed a fair bit of lenience as long as he remains sensitive to the Tau outlook.

Nonalyth
19-04-2013, 11:02
Would Tau have nose art

What nose?

169080

Kakapo42
19-04-2013, 23:07
Thing is I think in your analogy Tau would rather take the place of the Japanese. Being very traditional and following "the Art of War", I personally don't think they would be like the Americans, even if they're a very educated race that understands the concept of psychological warfare. It doesn't fit with their culture. Like the way they find close combat primitive or are not happy about the carnivorous behaviour of their Kroot allies, whereas a Space Wolf for example would possibly take grim pride seeing his pet cyberwolf maul an enemy. So I'd say overly ribald material is out. They wouldn't paint anything that defaces the elegance of instruments of the greater good and could make an ethereal blush.

I'm not sure I would call the Tau traditional. Set in their ways culturally perhaps, but that's about the only place where they're reluctant to change. They're constantly developing new technologies and innovations, and constantly learning and adapting to the things they encounter, particularly new technologies. In fact, they've even been able to out-adapt a small Hive Fleet.

ForgottenLore
19-04-2013, 23:51
Yea, sorry, I was speaking specifically about the name "maverick"... that kind of reckless individuality, the idea of celebrating a kind of devil may care attitude, probably wouldnt sit well with the tau way or the ideology of the greater good.
While they don't use the term maverick, the codex describes stealth suit operators like this. So this kind of personality is uncommon, but present in Tau culture. I could also very much see a successful stealth Shas'Vre getting promoted to a riptide pilot if he demonstrated the ability to be a team player while also holding on to the initiative and innovation he showed as a stealth. Such an individual I could see decorating his suit. Crisis suit pilots is a harder sell, but I could still see it happening with Tau of some septs.


Thing is I think in your analogy Tau would rather take the place of the Japanese. Being very traditional and following "the Art of War", I personally don't think they would be like the Americans, even if they're a very educated race that understands the concept of psychological warfare. It doesn't fit with their culture.

They have a lot of Japanese similarities, but their sense of manifest destiny and aggressive expansion is very american, making them an odd mix.

Menthak
20-04-2013, 00:51
Would Tau even have an analogue for playing cards? Gambling is something I dont think the Tau would really 'get' - gambling seems too reckless and self centred, taking unnesserary risks to gain at the expense of your castemates seems something that'd likely be discouraged if not strait up inconceivable.

Id imagine if the Tau played games they'd emphasise communal effort and group success rather than personal success - the group wins or loses together, not the individual.

Although I agree, Tau do drink alcohol, which is all of the above

As for the Original Question; No. Some septs might, but most Tau usually are quite clean and official, you'd have to be of a Farsight Enclave or something.