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Gintonpar
15-04-2013, 14:51
Hello!

I'm coming into WFB for the first time, I played some 40k when I was younger but have been itching for a year to get back involved.

I remember reading a battle report when Night Goblin Fanatics were first being released and being blown away! Many years later, and now with a job paying me enough dolla' to indulge my vice for tiny green men in black cloaks, here I stand.

As someone who burned through their pocket money buying ridiculous amounts of models which I could never hope to paint, I'm looking at starting off with 1000 points. Night Goblins only. No Black Orcs dressed as goblins, no Common Goblins "taking over the tribe", no special characters.

I'm aware of the limitations of the list (leadership). But attracted by its unpredictability, size and destructive potential.

While lurking here I've found a lot of lists with a relatively small amount of core troops. I think this sounds a bit un-gobliney? They are a horde, after all. I'm attracted by huge blocks of gobbos, brimming with fanatics, with some cheap units that pack a punch. NG lords seem garbage so they will just be in there for the (minimal) leadership buff.

I'm not sure about posting policy here regarding putting points costs on, so I'll keep it vague, but let me know your thoughts. I want to win, like anybody, but I'm under no illusions NG aren't THE most competitive list. I'm undecided about much of the list, so I'll keep it vague, leaving stuff out where I'm not sureAnyway, all thoughts appreciated, and here goes:

Lords/Heroes:

NG Warboss - gear ??

NG Shaman - level 2, gear? 100 points all together?

Troops

80 NG - Spears, FC, 2 fanatics, nets. roughly 300 points

80 NG - Spears, FC, 2 fanatics, nets. roughly 300 points

Special

3 Spear Chukkas - roughly 100 points

Rare

2 Mangler Squigs - 120 points?


2 Pump Wagons - 90 points?



Also I'm a massive noob, so apologies if format is wrong, or the thoughts themselves are a bit useless :p

Thanks!

sigmarus
15-04-2013, 17:31
I like the list, but 80 is a LOT of models per unit. I would knock them both down to 60 each (thats still a 10x6 formation if you horde them). and then put 40 in a new unit. move points around for upgrades accordingly.

Revanur
15-04-2013, 17:41
I would definetly put a night Goblin Big Boss Battle Standard Bearer in the list. With the leadership as low as it is, the re-rolls are key.

Give him the armour of destiny and maybe a shield for as much protection as possible. A little added bonus is that he brings some extra attacks at strength 4 as well.

KingFerret
15-04-2013, 19:25
One very effective way to keep your wonderfully fun night goblin theme whilst also adding some competitive punch to your list is to grab 5 night goblin big bosses naked with great weapons and use them as a full front rank for one your big night goblin buses.

The rank and file provide the numbers the ranks the steadfast and that lovely jubbly horde feel, while the bosses provide the high strength attacks and are still relatively cheap.

MLP
15-04-2013, 20:30
I think your list needs less war machines and more squigs. It's the night goblin way!

How about this?!

Night Goblin Warboss: Talisman Of Preservation; great weapon.

Night Goblin Big Boss: Armour of Destiny; great weapon; Battle Standard.
Night Goblin Big Boss: great weapon
Night Goblin Big Boss: great weapon
Night Goblin Big Boss: great weapon

40 Night Goblins: Night Goblin Boss; Musician; Standard Bearer; shields; spears; Netters.
2 Fanatics

23 Night Goblins: Night Goblin Boss; Musician; Standard Bearer; shields; spears.
1 Fanatic

21 Cave Squigs: 7 Night Goblin Herder.
5 Night Goblin Squig Hoppers

Mangler Squigs

999 points

Main gobbo block with all the heroes in the front. Supporting block for whatever. Cave squigs to chomp stuff and hoppers for chaff. Mangler to do what it does best! Just hope all the random attacks pay off.

KingFerret
15-04-2013, 20:45
I like that list looks fun :D although I definitely think the great weapons are better than additional hand weapons on the big bosses.

MLP
15-04-2013, 20:57
I like that list looks fun :D although I definitely think the great weapons are better than additional hand weapons on the big bosses.

Oops I meant GWs have edited the list :-) I might use this myself actually.

deathrain-commander
15-04-2013, 21:00
I like it a lot in concept, it appeals a lot to my sadistic side (the side of me that takes huge units of Gnoblars/Cultists entirely to feed them to a unit they can't handle) but I hope you're not expecting it do well in tournaments. Chaff heavy armies (Wood Elves, Dark Elves, certain flavors of High Elves or Lizardmen) are gonna have your fanatics out on turn 2 and milling around in front of, limiting your maneuverability. Shooting and Magic heavy armies (Empire and Dwarves come to mind, as do some OK or Elf builds) will panic your units one by one, which is really not the way you want the battle to go. You'll do well against aggressive combat lists (Brettonia, Chaos Daemons, Warriors of Chaos certain Ogre builds) but that's a limited style to play against.

Don't be discouraged though, I quite like the list, it seems like it'd be fun to play with and against. And you can probably overcome it's limitations in tournament play once you get to higher points levels. So...that's my opinion.

Gintonpar
16-04-2013, 09:31
Whew. Thanks for the feedback! Really appreciate it, I like the idea of the Big Bosses with Great Weapons, but at lower points levels, wouldn't that make the unit a bit over-expensive?

Also point taken about switching from 80-80 to 60-60-40. That seems far more intimidating!

BSB, totally agree. Thanks for that. Which magic banner do you think, if any?

Finally, what is the consensus on spear chukkas?

I really like the idea of the pump wagons (think like the level of technology used by the forces of the Goblin King in the Hobbit movie), and the squig herds - also awesome. However, I think I'd include them when I move the list up to 1500.

My theory is that if I fire 2 mangler squigs and 2 pump wagons down the table at 1000 points - there aren't many armies that could totally blow them up AND deal with the fanatic launch/tarpit combat.

Final question: What is the general consensus around the viability of pump wagons?

Also if there are any NG players out there I'd love to chat, either by PM or on here if you have any tactical advice. Thanks again!

MLP
16-04-2013, 10:38
Yeah in 1000 point games units of 80 is probably overkill. Units of 50 is probably fine.

Spear chukkas are okay but I don't use them, I prefer the rock lobba or doom diver. They are very cheap though so one or two is fine and good against monstrous units for obvious reasons.

Pump wagons are great against chaff/war machines especially when upgraded for speed. I don't like the models and would probably convert a night goblin version myself, squig hoppers can do a similar job and more on top I think but pump wagons are very cheap for want they do.

General tactics for night gobs are to use your randoms to get the damage in and cripple the enemy units you can't normally deal with. So your manglers, pump wagons, fanatics should be hitting the enemy where it hurts. Then use trolls and squig herds to mop up while your blocks hold the line best they can, netters and tricksy goblin bosses are key for this.

Gintonpar
16-04-2013, 11:17
I thought trolls weren't a great choice for NG, as they suffer stupidity and can only rely on NG Warboss leadership? Would you recommend Squig Herds in a 1000 point list? I'm keen not to sacrifice my big blocks and Manglers

MLP
16-04-2013, 12:00
Yeah trolls can be tricky without a BSB but you can fit one in 1000 easily anyway. Squigs blocks are okay at 1000 but they can get expensive. With manglers I always assume they will be sacrificed. It's the best way.

Gintonpar
16-04-2013, 12:11
By not sacrificed I meant "I definitely want them in my list", haha.

So would you go a block of trolls, bsb with discipline to boost to Ld8 with rerolls? That seems workable.

And I take it you would drop the pump wagons? The issue with dropping them is that I'd then be sending my Manglers ahead solo, without any follow up until the NG blocks/Trolls arrive. As is, sending the Manglers supported by the pump wagons would have good frontage and scare factor, allowing the buses to get into position unmolested. They are my initial thoughts anyhow

ShurikenSerpent
16-04-2013, 15:59
Trolls can be quite a nasty surprise in a Night Goblin list - I know this from painful experience. They do need babysitting by the General however, but they're tough, hard-hitting and can make a dent in units that regular rank and file Gobbos struggle against.

The random movement units that Night Goblins bring to the table can also be a challenge for players to adapt to - no charge reactions can make a mess of your opponents tactics.

I've faced down Gobbo spear chuckas on a couple of occasions, and they've rarely done a great deal of note. Gobbo BS and long range makes them unreliable, at best.

Gintonpar
16-04-2013, 16:51
Maybe worth dropping the Chukkas from my list and grabbing a Doom Diver or two?

I put the Chukkas in to deal with high toughness targets, maybe they are already taken care of with the Manglers/Fanatics.

Also there are only so many big units someone can bring to a 1000point game.

At 1k points am I wanting to bring about 6 trolls?

MLP
16-04-2013, 17:44
Maybe worth dropping the Chukkas from my list and grabbing a Doom Diver or two?

I put the Chukkas in to deal with high toughness targets, maybe they are already taken care of with the Manglers/Fanatics.

Also there are only so many big units someone can bring to a 1000point game.

At 1k points am I wanting to bring about 6 trolls?

Yeah chukkas can only do what other units can also do, I depends on how many points you're willing to spend for it I suppose!

My earlier comment about manglers is that they're a throw away unit you shouldn't worry about losing. As they're very cheap points just launch them towards your enemy's nastiest looking units.

I've come up with another 1000 point list you might like going off these comments:

Night Goblin Warboss: great weapon.
Night Goblin Great Shaman: Level 4 Wizard.

Night Goblin Big Boss: Standard of Disciplin; great weapon; Battle Standard.

35 Night Goblins: Night Goblin Boss; Musician; Standard Bearer; shields; spears; Netters.
3 Fanatics

6 Trolls
Goblin Spear Chukka

Mangler Squigs
Doom Diver Catapult
Snotling Pump Wagon

1,000 points

March the night goblin block with the trolls side by side so you have a hopefully steadfast unit that gives -1S to the enemy after theyve taken 3 fanatic hits and a nice block of trolls to smash the enemy with rerollable Ld8.

With a level4 at this points you should own magic phase and have some good spells to help out.

Doom dive can take out enemy artillery and big monsters with the spear chukka as a back up. Pump wagon can scout ahead to take on chaff then artillery. The mangler then goes in to soften up what's left before your main line hits.

Main issue I see is the core unit being too small. Might be worth running the trolls 2x2 instead of 3x2 and have 58 night goblins.

CaptainFaramir
17-04-2013, 09:47
Not to put a spanner in the works of the excellent advice set out above, but I actually liked your original "forever stubborn" units of Night Goblins.

Incidentally, a block of 100 NG archers with the Poison Spider Banner just won the SCGT (which is a big deal).

Gintonpar
17-04-2013, 10:06
Faramir, I've been having the same reservations. I'm thinking at lower points levels few armies will have enough units to deal with the big blocks, along with the harder hitting units.

At the moment I'm leaning towards keeping 60-80 strong blocks, dropping the chukkas for a doom diver, and going with manglers, pump wagons and a bsb. Upgrading to squig herds and a troll block as MLP suggested once I go to 1500. I figure this gives me a solid base for expansion, and I'm wary of getting caught up in a frenzy of buying special units, then suddenly not having a horde anymore.

I'm torn! I feel I definitely need the stubborn horde and the manglers - rest I feel flexible on just now

Bigdak
21-04-2013, 19:06
Incidentally, a block of 100 NG archers with the Poison Spider Banner just won the SCGT (which is a big deal).

I'm pretty sure that the poison spider banner can only be held by a regular goblin and not a night goblin. But whatever the idea seemed really cool but I'd have to add a regular goblin and I'm more into NG.

For the list I really like the big hordes. My experience with those is that without the rank of cheap NG big bosses in them, they don't do any damage. I try to pack as many NG big bosses with great weapon or additional hand weapon ( depends on the game, sometimes my 2HW bosses hit like crazy and the slow hit last GW bosses don't do anything or the other way around ) in them. These guys will do most/all of your damage so you cant skip out on them.
Now you want those hordes to be as CaptainFaramir said "forever stubborn" so hordes of 60 is good. 40 will be short if you play them 10 wide.

For Trolls, a solo troll doesn't work. 3 is kind of okay but the best deal is packs of 6 or over. At 1000 pts I wouldn't go with them. At a 1000 pts I wouldn't take squig herds either.

Now do you want to play only NG for the rules as a challenge or just for the look of the army ? Personally I really dislike the regular goblins but they do have interesting units : wolf chariots / wolf riders are excellent chaff units. Therefore what I do is simple conversions to include those units while keeping the NG theme. Actually I'm building up a squig chariot to be played as a wolf chariot ..
Same comment for warmachines.

I'm saying this because your list lacks of redirection units IMO. I'm not sure I would sacrifice the Mangler Squigs on the opponent's chaff and even though Pump Wagons kind of work, I prefer the wolf chariot. I would have some squig hoppers or converted NG wolf riders to nail down those painful units which forces your fanatics out. I always play a small NG archer unit to take out small chaff ( Dire wolves , .. ) and be able to throw fanatics through your huge horde once it's locked in combat with tough opponents to be 1) sure to hit them and 2) have your fanatics behind the enemy lines ( if you're packing hordes of 60-80 it's not a big loss but a big one for the Empire player seeing his knights being hammered) . Then you just let the Waaaagh happen. :)

That's all I can say for the moment. If you want to talk more about anything you can PM me. Tell us how your first few games go. Obviously theory doesn't always match with the practice.