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View Full Version : Not strictly a rules question- 20mm base figs on a 40mm base



Maskedman5oh4
18-04-2013, 22:14
I am working on some Empire Halberdier units- 40 & 50 strong- and I am thinking of putting 3 halberdiers on 40mm base kind of staggered to make ranking and model removal somewhat less painful.

I understand that it really is up to my opponent if they are going to take issue with it.

I am wondering if this will fly in tournament and wanting your opinions in general. Casual games I do not expect a problem. I am wondering about store level tournaments and prehaps bigger events at Cons or something.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Havock
19-04-2013, 05:13
It's called a unit filler, and most people don't mind.

T10
19-04-2013, 11:35
I like to use large bases to represent multiple models, e.g. 40mm square bases to represent four 20mm square base models. This is particularly helpful with low-quality troops like Goblins, Skeletons and Skaven. It saves time when arrainging the unit. However, I also place four models on said base.

What is a "unit filler"? To me it's a method where you add elements to a unit that take up the space of a number of models, thus inflating your in-game unit strength without using the same number of actual models. The best examples I've seen are small dioramas (three goblins with a cooking pot instead of four goblins) or thematically appropriate replacement (undead ogres in a unit of zombies).

I don't univerally hate or love unit fillers. I won't begrudge a player the wish to get the most out of his regiment box by having having a few Zombie models represented by bases with heads and hands clawing their way out of the earth. Some units need to be a bit bigger.

On the other hand, some unit fillers come across as a bit of a cheap trick to me. Nobody needs a unit of 100 Skaven Slaves, and anyone that building such a unit(s!) with 20 actual models and the rest with cheap unit fillers earns no respect from me.

-T10

Zeroth
19-04-2013, 15:33
Unit fillers are awesome. Unit emptyers not so much.

Maskedman5oh4
20-04-2013, 03:06
Unit fillers are awesome. Unit emptyers not so much.

So putting 3 halberdiers on a 40x40 woulld be an emptyer?

I mocked it up and I think it looks fine.

DaemonReign
20-04-2013, 03:23
I looks all right.
But I think, for practical reasons, you'd rather make it so that you can remove models 'rank-by-rank', no?
Especially if your 'regimental base' is placed in the front-rank..
Having a 40mm square base with 3 models (but representing 4) could work fine for the rear-end of the unit though.
Might end up looking quite naturalistic as it formation would arguably be a bit more 'loose' toward the end of the unit - being farther from the heat of thing as it were..

dementian
20-04-2013, 04:13
I looks all right.
But I think, for practical reasons, you'd rather make it so that you can remove models 'rank-by-rank', no?
Especially if your 'regimental base' is placed in the front-rank..
Having a 40mm square base with 3 models (but representing 4) could work fine for the rear-end of the unit though.
Might end up looking quite naturalistic as it formation would arguably be a bit more 'loose' toward the end of the unit - being farther from the heat of thing as it were..


I don't think having a 40mm inside the 20mm would be that bad especially for a weaker unit like halberdiers or slaves for instance. I foresee combats where 4+ models are removed. and when it comes down to the final rank of models you can always remove the 40mm and replace with 2 single 20mm from your dead pile. I occasionally throw a rat ogre in my slave units for aesthetics.

Rikkjourd
20-04-2013, 21:44
I rarely see an army without any fillers, and I go to tournaments and random matchups from other gaming groups. Nowadays it feels weird when someone has built a unit straight from the box with the correct number of models.

Urgat
21-04-2013, 12:36
I looks all right.
But I think, for practical reasons, you'd rather make it so that you can remove models 'rank-by-rank', no?
Especially if your 'regimental base' is placed in the front-rank..
Having a 40mm square base with 3 models (but representing 4) could work fine for the rear-end of the unit though.
Might end up looking quite naturalistic as it formation would arguably be a bit more 'loose' toward the end of the unit - being farther from the heat of thing as it were..

My goblin units are full of 40mm bases or even 20x40 spanning on two ranks instead of the same rank (one such and two 40mm bases, that covers two ranks, so 10 goblins, with 3 bases), they are real time-savers and there's no problem if you make sure you have a couple gobs on their own to fill in gaps if you need to remove one of them. That's all it takes.

Lorcryst
21-04-2013, 12:42
I agree with Urgat, having some larger bases in big blocks of cheapish troops is a time-saver, just make sure you have enough spare, single-based models for the odd casualties, and you're set.

I personnaly have two "fillers" for my Squig Herd Horde made from the unrankable NG with a big trident on a 40mm base with some decorations, and I plan on sticking a couple of Nurglings stacks on 50mm bases to go in my 50+ unit of Plaguebearers ...

As long as it is well done, it's good.

Oh, just a side point, sometimes I *DO* use that technique to avoid buying a complete box just for a couple of models ... and I did use the lots of spare Nurglings from my Nurgling boxes on spare 25mm bases to bolster my numbers ... there's 7 of the buggers per box of 3 Nurglings Stacks, and the bases are crowded with only the Stacks, so I cut some corners :p

theunwantedbeing
21-04-2013, 12:45
So putting 3 halberdiers on a 40x40 woulld be an emptyer?
Yes, because you're using less models.
That said.....

I mocked it up and I think it looks fine.
Agreed! It doesn't look wierd or wrong at all.
I'de like to see painted pics of it please :)

Urgat
21-04-2013, 13:24
I personnaly have two "fillers" for my Squig Herd Horde made from the unrankable NG with a big trident
Ahah, that one's a bitch, mine is currently serving as a regular dude in the front rank of a plain night gob unit. But, to be honest, he's barely worse than any single mini in a squig herd unit, that one's the worst to rank up in my army, and I built it before I decided to use 40mm bases >_<.
edit: Wait, I'm mistaken, the one I can't rank up is the one with a snotling tied to his spear. I don't think I have the one you're taking about.

Scammel
21-04-2013, 17:59
I don't think I have the one you're taking about.

Sounds like Skarsnik to me.

Urgat
21-04-2013, 18:34
Nah, it's the one with a trident and a... English fails me... scarf thing on the mouth, I see which one he's talking about. Yeah, he must be even worse, because iirc he has this trident of his parallel to the ground.

Lorcryst
21-04-2013, 19:41
The one in this picture : LINKY (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2390977a_99800209023_SquigHerdCymbalsCFC01_445x31 9.jpg).

I also have two of the one with the Snotling tied to a spear (LINKY (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2390982a_99800209024_SquigHerdPipesCFC01_445x319. jpg)), but I based those on 20mm bases with a diagonal slot, and use them on the flanks of the unit, with the Spear+Snot sticking out of the footprint.

Skarsnik is tricky too, but he's on a rock raised above his base, with his Prodder vertical ... the problem there is the tail of Gobbla : LINKY (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2390997a_99810209012_SkarsnikGobblaCFC01_445x319. jpg).

Enough thread jacking, my point was (and still is) : bigger bases are good, and even mandatory sometimes, especially in horde armies, and they can be tasteful too : a Rat Ogre in an unit of Skaven Slaves, a Stone Troll in a huge Horde of Night Goblins (like in that old black and white drawing of a NG army spilling from the mountains), three Halberdiers staggered in the middle of the unit, a couple of tombstones with arms/hands sticking out of the ground, and more ...

Don't overdo it, think about the theme and composition of the filler/army, and you're home free.

DON'T do the "rock on a base, alone" tough, those really cheapen the army as a whole (even if I did use a bit of bark as a big rock on one of my fillers, but I also added mushrooms and lichens, to represent the natural habitat of Squigs, the caves under the mountains ... not satisfied with that one, I'll admit).

Bodysnatcher
21-04-2013, 21:39
One approach to horde units that should be a neat formation that I have seen and quite liked is the staggered formation. I think it was spearmen, maybe elf or empire, but this is how it was done:
Front rank normal. 2nd rank had 2 20mm by 80mm bases, each with three models on, offset so they were in the 'gaps' in the front formation, then 2 normal models on the ends. The row behind this was normal, the row behind that repeated the second row. It saved a couple of models and actually looked like it was pointing a lot more spears at you.
Might have been a tad awkward for templates though.