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Jim30
20-04-2013, 17:06
Well I was at Salute today, the fifth time in as many years. Something which I and my friends noticed though was just how downsized the presence of any GW items for sale was compared to previous years. A few years ago GW had a stall on site (selling full price while others around it were doing 20% off, so hardly doing a roaring trade!). Most of the larger retailers present had a very substantial amount of GW stock on their stands, and it would usually seem to sell - the usual round of 10-20% off plus old blisters getting people scrabbling for a bargain.

this year there seemed to be hardly any traders carrying GW, and when it was seen it was in far smaller quantities than before. Wayland for instance had a small GW bit in the middle of its stand, but it was seemingly outnumbered by Warmahordes stock. Very few other retailers who come year after year seemed to have any, and the interest in buying second hand models just didnt seem to be there. I've been going to wargames shows for over 25 years and I have never seen such a low presence of GW stock at a show.

The one bright spot was Forge World who had a big queue at one point, but not much action by late in the day.

By contrast a vast range of new systems were being demoed and shown off with plenty of people like myself investing a lot of money in new toys and systems. This wasn't a convention of old grognards, this was thousands of people (I heard one organiser say that they had 2500 advance sales plus overall numbers were up on last year - at least 5 - possibly 10,000 people were there during the day). The majority of the audience were teens - thirty somethings, with money to spend. The fact is that this is a market which GW should have eating out of its hand, but instead they were playing all manner of systems and I didnt see a single GW demo game or participation game.

It is quite telling that GW not only seems uninterested in trying to sell regular products at these events, but that traders think that on a show where according to some they do 20% of their annual turnover in a day, they felt no need to bring a large amount of GW stuff with them, but still got good levels of sales.

My takeaway (shared by friends with similar views) was that GW is not only divorcing itself from wargaming into being a toy company, but that the interest in their product from a large wargames gathering seems vastly lower than only a couple of years ago.

shelfunit.
20-04-2013, 17:13
When I last went in 2010 GW had a decent sized stand there which seemed fairly busy, but Wayland were packing them in. FWs stand was like a One Direction walk about in Leicester square then pretty much every time I passed it. I expect they decided there was no point going as only the hardcore would buy direct from them there anyway. Gutted I couldn't make it this year, although glad it was a huge turnout.

Vazalaar
20-04-2013, 17:18
I've never been to Salute, but if I would go I wouldn't be really interested in GW and I really like GW miniatures! I would be more interested in all the historical companies showing 3-ups of their new/future plastic sets.

Like Fireforge Games, Victrix, Perry's and so on... .

Jim30
20-04-2013, 17:25
It was an excellent day - dozens of exciting companies and so many things to buy!

I should be clear, I'm a former GW player who has found lots of other fun games to play, but who still waits for a Woodies book to try to tempt me back. Frankly, having seen how many astounding models and rules were there today, it would take a lot to bring me back to GW (e.g. Bolt Action, SAGA, musktet and tomahawks and Flames of War - far too much choice, far too little money or time!)

shelfunit.
20-04-2013, 17:27
You've got to go one year Tonny - the whole thing feels a bit... agricultural, and there is no expense spent as it were, but it is huge, there are hundreds of traders and companies and the painting comp is always filled with real quality PJs - not sure if Mrs McVey won again this year. If you're lucky enough you can get to chat to the Perrys, the McVeys, and probably some guy from the "Sharpe" TV series (not Sean Bean) looking a bit mystified by the whole thing in full napoleonic get up. Great fun.

Sai-Lauren
20-04-2013, 17:32
I got to the FW stand at 10:30 (IA12 was on sale already), and they had to stop taking cards because they'd run out of paper for the card reader.

A few minutes later, someone had slapped in a roll given to them by Black Library and everything continued as normal - I guess someone left the spare rolls behind when they packed everything up to come down. :)

As for GW's appearances, the last time Salute was at Earl's Court, they had Aly Morrison and some of the designers down (IIRC, they had some of the summer Lustria campaign stuff on show), but since it moved to Excel, they've only had the sales stand, which they frankly might as well not bother with, especially when you can walk over to people like Wayland and get the same stuff cheaper.

Jim30
20-04-2013, 17:45
Sai - the sales stand hasnt been there for many years. I think I last saw it about 5 years ago.

shelfunit.
20-04-2013, 18:00
Sai - the sales stand hasnt been there for many years. I think I last saw it about 5 years ago.

It was definately there in 2010, next to the Mantic stand (very small then, staffed by Ronnie and they were just selling the new undead and had the 3 ups of the new orcs).

Coldhatred
20-04-2013, 18:51
That's very interesting. It does underline the shift that is going on right now with the wargaming market. But, I would hazard to say that sometimes the point of a stand isn't to sell merchandise, but to have presence. That being said, still very telling.

Killgore
20-04-2013, 19:56
Why need a presence at salute when there's traders with GW stock and your publishing and elite model range already there?

If GW wanted to impress people all they needed was FW.

I attended Salute today and there was many impressive games and models on display, but the jewel was the FW and BL stand and their event only products :)

I wish some of the companies put more thought into how they presented their stalls, I wanted to see an assembled Dreamforge Leviathan but noone had any on display :(

Jim30
20-04-2013, 20:10
The issue is that each year fewer and fewer traders are bothering to bring gw stock, and the ranges are far fewer each year.
My assessment is that the demand for gw product in a sizeable market is falling, and that there are other companies capturing market share. There is no one 'gw killer' out there, but it feels like gw is surrendering marketspace which it previously held for years and shows no sign of regaining it.

Coldhatred
20-04-2013, 21:35
Why need a presence at salute when there's traders with GW stock and your publishing and elite model range already there?

Because that's just how marketing works. You want to have your own particular presence there, regardless of the fact that others might be selling your product. It's like Wizards of the Coast not showing up to PAX East because there are already merchants selling Dungeons and Dragons there. In other words, of course they'd still show up.

@Jim30 Yes, it does seem like just another indicator that GW really needs to reevaluate their position in the marketplace. It's almost like GW is just surrendering the market share without a fight, but I can't imagine that's the case. If we as customers are noticing these signs, surely GW as a company has noticed this long before and are working to rectify it.

shelfunit.
20-04-2013, 22:08
It's almost like GW is just surrendering the market share without a fight, but I can't imagine that's the case.

You're right - they're actively throwing it away via their current policies.

On the topic of GW "presence" there were only 2 demo games (both 40k) and the BL and FW stands. A bit weak compared to the last few years.

Jim30
20-04-2013, 22:32
I didnt even spot the 40K demo games.

Worth looking at what other companies were doing - BF, Gripping Beast, Mantic, Great Escape to name but a few were all running tabletop demos of their kit, with freebies and great stuff to use. Lots of crowds, lots of interest and people spending money on new systems they may not have looked at before.

Thats the thing with a show like Salute - people come with money and a will to spend it if the offer is right. I spent about 250 today all told, and a lot of it was completely unplanned. Now if GW had put a small presence, maybe doing some demo games in the show, who knows who they may have won over and got a bit of extra revenue for very little effort, which could turn into a few new customers. As a company they just dont seem interested in generating new business anymore.

prowla
20-04-2013, 23:30
That's very interesting. It does underline the shift that is going on right now with the wargaming market. But, I would hazard to say that sometimes the point of a stand isn't to sell merchandise, but to have presence. That being said, still very telling.

Well, yes, considering how keen GW has been to have a good presence by keeping expensive high street shops out there.

Usually large companies have a ton of promo material for fairs, so it's not really difficult or expensive for them to pull off an impressive display at any given event. What's weird is if they don't even bother to show up.

superdupermatt
20-04-2013, 23:36
I actually don't know what Salute is, can anyone give me a rundown?

shelfunit.
21-04-2013, 06:40
I actually don't know what Salute is, can anyone give me a rundown?

http://www.salute.co.uk/salute/salute-2013/

By far the largest UK wargaming show/expo in the UK (possibly the world?). Somewhere between 5-10,000 visitors at Londons Excel centre. Run by South London Warlords (gaming club) for... a long time now. Covers the entire gamut of wargaming/RPGs from hisoricals (all ages) through fantasy, steampunk, sci-fi in all scales. Hundreds of traders/manufacturers and demo/participation games. Usually happens on London Marathon weekend. Wonderful event - I've sadly only been twice (2008 & 2010) working on a couple of demo tables so haven't really had the joy of being there as a visitor. Really is a must visit if possible.

warhammergrimace
21-04-2013, 10:39
I worked on the Hasslefree stand this year and we were non stop all day...a lot of gamers were buying for modern/zombie games...but I did notice a lack of GW at the show..I go to Salute every year and there has always been a fairly sizeable GW presence at the show, but this year it was quite lacking. I did bump into a few studio members who were attending the show as punters, in fact most bought from Hasslefree...the one one thing I did notice is that skirmish gaming was more popular this year..

Charax
21-04-2013, 10:59
I've only been to 3 salutes, one many years ago, one in 2012 and yesterday's. Never seen an official GW stand, only forgeworld & BL. Tbh it'd be weird for a corporate culture that seems to disavow all knowledge of tabletop gaming outside itself to display a presence at one of the more eclectic shows, and selling full price next to discount retailers doesn't seem like a great idea

There was a severe lack of GW stuff elsewhere though, even the bring & buy wasn't stocked with much. No idea why that is.

To be honest I prefer Salute without massive stands by big names. Wayland & Forgeworld dominated the floorspace last year and I think salute makes for a better visitor experience without massive heaving queues

prowla
21-04-2013, 11:13
I've only been to 3 salutes, one many years ago, one in 2012 and yesterday's. Never seen an official GW stand, only forgeworld & BL. Tbh it'd be weird for a corporate culture that seems to disavow all knowledge of tabletop gaming outside itself to display a presence at one of the more eclectic shows, and selling full price next to discount retailers doesn't seem like a great idea


Yeah, usually the idea for companies like GW is to show up and make a big expensive display, saying "look at us, we're big and badass!" to drum up interest. They don't actually have to sell anything.

Sai-Lauren
21-04-2013, 11:18
Sai - the sales stand hasnt been there for many years. I think I last saw it about 5 years ago.
I definately remember it at Excel - although I just checked back through the list of traders and they havn't been there since at least 2011.

Maybe the BL stand had some GW stuff in the past, and that's what I'm remembering. :)

It could simply be that GW thinks that because they have Games Day, they don't need to do Salute, plus with the other traders undercutting them, unless they had something that guaranteed sales on the day (pre-releases of a new range for example, although I've a feeling some of them would wind up on eBay before lunchtime), there's no profit in it.

However, and to forestall the next comments, profit certainly isn't the only reason to go - you can also add in public image, reputation, advertising (imagine how lively some of the boards would be today if there'd been displays of concept art, 10 minutes sessions once per hour with one of the designers talking about something, and previews of the next couple of months WFB, 40k and Hobbit releases ;)).

Archaon
21-04-2013, 11:48
That's very interesting. It does underline the shift that is going on right now with the wargaming market. But, I would hazard to say that sometimes the point of a stand isn't to sell merchandise, but to have presence. That being said, still very telling.

The shift has been going on for a decade or more.

I have started the hobby back in the early 90s and there was pretty much only GW for mainstream gaming. Other companies have tried to break into market such as Warzone/Chronopia which had some pretty good miniatures/rules but just couldn't compete with the GW juggernaut and went out of business a few years later.

Come the 00s and Warmachine burst onto the scene with awesome miniatures and a good rulesset.. this time the company stayed in the business and expanded and it was the first time we noticed that things had changed. Other games followed like Infinity, Flames of War, Hordes and the many smaller games with a more specific focus.

People still play GW games but they now have more variety and know that most companies are here to stay for the foreseeable future so they broaden their horizon and often enough realize that other games are more attractive for them and so they spend their money elsewhere.

GW just seems to be stuck in their business model thinking they are the biggest kid on the block (they are) and they'll always be (that may be a mistake). GW is still profitable but it's not due to sold goods.. the volume decreases annually while the prices rise disproportionally and together with cost saving methods puts them in the win zone for now. Nobody knows how long this business method may last but in the end it can't go on forever. GW must change substantially if it wants to be around for the next decades and it remains to be seen if they will. If not there are other companies around to pick up gaming money.

effbomber
21-04-2013, 12:04
Well, yes, considering how keen GW has been to have a good presence by keeping expensive high street shops out there.

Usually large companies have a ton of promo material for fairs, so it's not really difficult or expensive for them to pull off an impressive display at any given event. What's weird is if they don't even bother to show up.

If I was GW I'd see the high street presence as key to generating new business, and community stuff like salute as irrelevant.

Their target market isn't really the people who're at salute. It's kids in shopping centres with their mums who think the words miniature wargames are synonymous with the words games workshop.

Brandir
21-04-2013, 12:27
The last Salute I attended was in 2011 and I seem to remember that GW had 3 or 4 demo tables at the show although no trade stand (well, no GW branded stand but the FW stand).

I also seem to remember that Salute attracts circa 4,000 paying attendees with some 300 'free' badges for demo gamers and volunteers.

Brother Loki
21-04-2013, 12:31
Yep, in the UK especially, if you have any interest in wargaming of any description, you're aware of GW and probably got into the hobby via them, at least if you're under the age of about 35-40. If you're looking at stuff from other companies, it's either in addition to GW stuff or instead of it, having moved on. There's not much point them preaching to the converted. They're all about getting new business from people who weren't previously aware of the hobby, and aren't aware of the alternatives.

yabbadabba
21-04-2013, 12:37
I had a good time at Salute, bumped into some old friends, indulged a little and came away very happy.

GW have far bigger things to focus on than Salute. Now this is not belittling Salute in the slightest, but their issues are ones that need focusing on as a priority above whether they go to Salute or not. For GW to attend such a show involves a far more complicated set of questions and justifications than whether to make money or not.

As an edit can I say I was a little disappointed that "sex sells" card was in evidence this year. I know not everyone will agree, but it just tarnished the show a little for me this year.

andyc
21-04-2013, 13:09
If I was GW I'd see the high street presence as key to generating new business, and community stuff like salute as irrelevant.

Their target market isn't really the people who're at salute. It's kids in shopping centres with their mums who think the words miniature wargames are synonymous with the words games workshop.

That strategy would be fine except GW are closing these stores or reducing staff to a level were the stores are closed 2 days a week.

wilsonian
21-04-2013, 13:13
it was my first year at salute as I live in Manchester it is a distance to travel. TBH I didn't mind not seeing too many GW products on the stands as the whole point of me going was to see what other companies are producing. I did have a order at FW to collect which i did first as I knew there was a queue - plus I wanted the event only models for my collection (and luckily got last years one as well).

From what everyone has said GW is just too pricey (not wanting to turn this into a price rant but 30 for a codex is crazy!). Other companies had similar game systems for a cheaper start up cost. One thing I did notice was the amount of different WW2 gaming systems people are selling.

Still good show and well ran. Think I'll be going again next year. :)

Jim30
21-04-2013, 13:42
"As an edit can I say I was a little disappointed that "sex sells" card was in evidence this year. I know not everyone will agree, but it just tarnished the show a little for me this year."

And yet somehow you were compelled to hang around Mantic Games all day? :-)

I thought it was fascinating to see companies who I've watched for a few years 'come of age' this year and put on some really impressive stands and presence. A real sense that a lot of very credible games and companies have entered the market in a sustainable way.

wilsonian
21-04-2013, 15:11
LOL yeah the cheer leaders looked a little out of place in an event hall mainly full of blokes but they were pleasing to the eye :)

yabbadabba
21-04-2013, 15:35
And yet somehow you were compelled to hang around Mantic Games all day? :-). No. In fact Mantic brought nothing to the show to interest me this year.

6mmhero
21-04-2013, 17:09
There were lots of GW "faces" wondering around as customers throughout the day.

I noticed that there was a lot less GW than usual but then I put this down to Wayland attending and the effect this has had on previous years. I assumed that lots of traders decided to focus on ranges where they could compete on discount with Wayland. I didn'tget to look around Wayland's stall aside frombuying scenery for our club as was busy loooking at all the other stands.

One thing from experience is that a lot of people from my gaming group who play a lot of GW games go to Salute to get something different and new. It is also the chance to see other ranges up close. Myself and a few others took the plunge into Dropzone Commander and Sedition Wars and then there was a bunch of players who threw money at Smart Max for their Smog and Mauser Earth ranges.

I think it would be interesting to see GW have a showcase presence at the show with say a display table and miniatures in display cabinets but I cannot see this happening anytime soon.

rich1231
21-04-2013, 17:23
There were lots of GW "faces" wondering around as customers throughout the day.

I noticed that there was a lot less GW than usual but then I put this down to Wayland attending and the effect this has had on previous years. I assumed that lots of traders decided to focus on ranges where they could compete on discount with Wayland. I didn'tget to look around Wayland's stall aside frombuying scenery for our club as was busy loooking at all the other stands.

One thing from experience is that a lot of people from my gaming group who play a lot of GW games go to Salute to get something different and new. It is also the chance to see other ranges up close. Myself and a few others took the plunge into Dropzone Commander and Sedition Wars and then there was a bunch of players who threw money at Smart Max for their Smog and Mauser Earth ranges.

I think it would be interesting to see GW have a showcase presence at the show with say a display table and miniatures in display cabinets but I cannot see this happening anytime soon.

That reads a like you are a little fixated with us. I would be stunned if other retailers decided to go to Salute or not, or their product offerings based upon our attendance. I would strongly argue that it simply isn't the case.

We probably made the same decision as others, take loads of GW and sell loads at a small margin, or sell a variety of items and work at pushing starter sets in alternative systems so we can increase the player base of those systems. About 15% of our stand was GW btw. Which was about 8 linear meters.

Herzlos
22-04-2013, 07:44
One thing from experience is that a lot of people from my gaming group who play a lot of GW games go to Salute to get something different and new. It is also the chance to see other ranges up close.

I guess that's reasonable enough as you wouldn't be able to get any GW stuff you can't get locally for the same price, with the exception of forge world. If they had a small selection of direct only stuff that might have been fairly successful

Chaos and Evil
22-04-2013, 17:18
No. In fact Mantic brought nothing to the show to interest me this year.

Not even the Dreadball robots and Deadzone scenery, sculpted by some guy with a silly forum name? Disorganised & Malefic, I think his name is. ;-p

We took our company Troublemaker Games along and had a little sales stand & demo table - we had a good day. :-)

yabbadabba
22-04-2013, 18:31
Not even the Dreadball robots and Deadzone scenery, sculpted by some guy with a silly forum name? Disorganised & Malefic, I think his name is. ;-p What can you say? Mantic is a cheap version of GW.

We took our company Troublemaker Games along and had a little sales stand & demo table - we had a good day. :-) That's on the list! I have a friend who is steampunk inclined. Trying to persuade these guys to move away from 28mm and try a real army lol!

Caiphas Cain
23-04-2013, 02:19
What can you say? GW is an expensive version of Mantic.

Basically, yes.

The Deadzone buildings are yours, C&E? Nicely done!

6mmhero
23-04-2013, 09:19
That reads a like you are a little fixated with us. I would be stunned if other retailers decided to go to Salute or not, or their product offerings based upon our attendance. I would strongly argue that it simply isn't the case.

We probably made the same decision as others, take loads of GW and sell loads at a small margin, or sell a variety of items and work at pushing starter sets in alternative systems so we can increase the player base of those systems. About 15% of our stand was GW btw. Which was about 8 linear meters.

Sorry that was not meant as an offensive comment and sorry if it came across that way. It is just a casual observation I have made over the last few years attending various shows and I have noticed that some traders vary their stock loadout (especially GW stock) from show to show. In fact the only trader that seems to remain a strong GW presence at Salute is Lesley's Bitzbox. Out of all the traders there I think you guys offer the biggest GW discount around but discount on the other ranges seemed a bit more level.

I like it that you guys are there as it gives me the opportunity to look at certain items (last year I had a good look at the Feldheer case) or get stuff without having to pay postage.

On another note I was thinking last night that Spartan Games were not there. In fact have they been to a Salute in recent years? I thought with Dystopian Legions we might have seen them there.

shelfunit.
23-04-2013, 09:40
On another note I was thinking last night that Spartan Games were not there. In fact have they been to a Salute in recent years? I thought with Dystopian Legions we might have seen them there.

According to the Salute website (on previous Salutes) they weren't there in either 2012 or 2011 - they're based in the US aren't they, so it might be a bit expensive to come over with a ton of stuff. Are they usually at Adepticon?

IJW
23-04-2013, 09:42
No, Spartan are down here in the South West (of England). Shepton Mallet, to be precise.

shelfunit.
23-04-2013, 10:25
No, Spartan are down here in the South West (of England). Shepton Mallet, to be precise.

Well what do ya know :eek: They always seemed very "other side of the atlantic" to me for some reason.

Verm1s
23-04-2013, 23:12
the jewel was the FW and BL stand and their event only products :)

You must have missed the Cthulhu Wars sculpts at Fenris, the Perry 3-ups, and... most else.


Myself and a few others took the plunge into Dropzone Commander

Man, the minis for that are something else, especially laid out on the cityscape display. I came away with less than I thought - that was one of the rulesets I should've picked up.


What can you say? Mantic is a cheap version of GW.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Got to say dreadball doesn't rattle my cage too much - I was looking forward to the KoW game run by Matt, to see it actually being played. :p Couldn't find it on the guide map or on the floor, though. (Although going by the guide I thought Foundry weren't there either, until I rounded a corner and found them near the end of the day)

Chaos and Evil
24-04-2013, 10:04
Couldn't find it on the guide map or on the floor, though.
The map was a bit wonky this year. There were two Troublemaker Games stands listed, for one thing, and I know for certain we only had one. :-)

DarkMark
25-04-2013, 09:00
A BeastsOfWar video on the event (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0QH7O2Kj3I). Helps give you an idea of size and scale.

Edit: although the presenter's accent is annoying and has no idea how to use a static verb, this is an ace video for everyone.

AsleepByDay
25-04-2013, 12:54
Spartan games are understaffed and small companies find it difficult to recruit quickly, so they don't have the hours to attend shows, they started the vanguard scheme to combat this and one of the stalls had a bunch of Dystopian legion models to give out.

I too noticed a sharp drop in gw stuff for sale this year vs the last two years (all I have attended), honestly I think this was good as the place was a tad crowded already, I hope they rent a larger area next year.

Morathi's Darkest Sin
25-04-2013, 14:04
By the sounds of it GW where just bringing normal stock, surely a better plan would have been to bring a good chunk of direct sales stuff, thus allowing folks to pick it up with out P&P charges, well sounds logical in my head anyway.

Nubl0
25-04-2013, 14:59
My first salute ever, it was great and there was minimal gw presence. Although to be fair, I think everyone and their mother in wargaming knows about gw and probably have a gw near them. I play fantasy as my main game but I did not go to salute to look at or egg product as it were, I went there to see what else was on offer and Jesus there's a lot of stuff. I picked up a few hundreds quids worth of malifaux and after some thought picked up a legion of everblight force, the archangel was just too awesome for me not too haha. Point being I think most people go to salute to see other stuff, I know I did.

Gorbad Ironclaw
26-04-2013, 05:39
Probably true, but even if people go there to see other stuff wouldn't you want to put a stall there to show off some cool stuff too? Wouldn't even have to be a big store with lots of stock, just something to show you are at least as cool as all those other games on show to remind people that maybe they shouldn't spend a couple of hundreds on X game because GW have something really cool it should go to.

paddyalexander
26-04-2013, 06:39
Although to be fair, I think everyone and their mother in wargaming knows about gw and probably have a gw near them.

Outside of the UK this isn't the case. I live right next door to the UK and the closest gwPLC Hobby Store to me is 260km away. There are members of my gaming group that were introduced to the hobby trough role playing games or hobby board games, now play other companies wargames & have only a passing knowledge of gwPLC because I occasionally break out Space Hulk or use the models I own in other games.

gwPLC not representing themselves at events like this is a mistake as it allows them to control how their product line is presented to potential new customers or returning old customers.

IJW
26-04-2013, 07:25
In the context of a discussion of a UK show, everyone and their mother does know about GW and have a GW store nearby. ;)

Verm1s
26-04-2013, 12:17
just something to show you are at least as cool as all those other games on show to remind people that maybe they shouldn't spend a couple of hundreds on X game because GW have something really cool

Like Nubl0 said:


I think most people go to salute to see other stuff

I also think that most people who go to Salute are past thinking space marines are 'kewl'. If they ever did. (To add on PaddyAlexander's post too, there are still historical gamers who think of GW as the whippersnappers with their wizards 'n' goblins fad)

And they usually wouldn't have to spend a couple of hundreds on X game either. :p

Herzlos
26-04-2013, 12:56
And they usually wouldn't have to spend a couple of hundreds on X game either. :p

But will anyway :p

My average spend at these types of shows is easily 200 by the time buying fever has subsided.

But yeah, a lot of the people going to these shows have already moved on from GW, but there will be more and more people being dragged along to these shows and sidestepping GW. So GW really should still be having a presence there to try and either a. win people back or b. remind people they still exist.

yabbadabba
26-04-2013, 15:54
gwPLC not representing themselves at events like this is a mistake as it allows them to control how their product line is presented to potential new customers or returning old customers. Its not that easy I'm afraid.

Autumn Leaves
03-05-2013, 13:30
GW did have a presence at Salute for many years but shortly after Salute shifted from Olympia in west London to the Excel in east Docklands, GW decided to stay away, for several reasons but ultimately because on the day the little guys make more than GW do, and I mean one little shop with a 6 feet wide table selling their own independent stock would outsell a 30 foot long GW 'store stall' manned by five red shirts.
I saw it happen.
I can remember in the last year GW had a presence they were outsold by two small independents on each side of them and their stall was hardly attended by customers all day.
The problems are several... Most of the companies, big or small, that go to Salute gear up for it by having a special deal to be sold only at Salute on the day. Some of them also pre-sell their wares to customers who then pick them up from Salute saving postage costs. Many discount some part or all of their wares on the day to incentivise buying.
GW never copied that aspect. They said they didn't need to and back in the day they were right. Being such a big company in the gaming world, they had their own release schedules they followed instead of having to pander to a one off one day occasion.
Fair enough.
However... as little companies began to produce better and better and BETTER quality toys, and they were cheaper or the same price, and they were 'willing to discount' and they offered bulk purchase deals and they made the effort to put on 'specials' for Salute, so the little guys started to gain more ground over time. Some of those little guys are getting pretty big now too like Gripping beast, Warlord Games, Mantic, I hear Foundry are on the way back. The small guys are playing smarter as well and punching above their weight. Old hands are still punching out good quality toys, like Heresy, Avatars of War, Westwind and Otherworld. All of whom will offer deals for Salute... for cash... :-)
There is way too much competition for GW at Salute and going there with a store with high prices and no discounts made them look mean and stingy compared to the more generous approach of the other traders. Staying away was the right thing for them to do. Especially when they were in the middle of the biggest one day miniatures convention in the world, heaving with gamers with a budget, and they are standing around with their hands in their pockets watching their neighbours on the next stalls raking it in and saying farewell to happy customers.