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Orien
22-04-2013, 18:02
Evening all, im about to take on an experienced Dwarf player with my OG army in a 2500 battleline game and im looking for a little feedback on the list. Im thinking of running the following:

4 x 5 Wolf riders with spears
5 Orc boar boyz, shields and spears
1 x Orc big boss with shield and spear on Warboar
1 x Boar chariot with extra crew member
16 x black orcs - banner of discipline (Boss and BSB in this unit)
1 x Black orc bsb with Morks war banner
1 x Black orc warboss (Bashas axe, enchanted shield, Talisman of preservation
29 x SOBU with AHW (FC)
1 x lvl2 SO Shaman (goes in with SOBU's)
80 NG Spearmen with Standard bearer and netters
6 x Trolls in one unit
2 x manglers
2 x doomdivers

What do you think - any tips? What will work, what wont?

Brother Haephestus
23-04-2013, 00:11
Your opponent is going to field blocks of infantry, shooters and war machines. That's almost the entire sum of dwarves tactics. With five-model units, crossbows and guns only need to cause 2 wounds and you're going to start taking panic checks. With two manglers, I'd be tempted to turn the wolf riders into blocks of 10. Able to take a few more hits, but still overwhelm the opponent with too much to shoot at.

What do you intend your block of 80 NG to do? In all honesty, that large a block and its a crime not to make them the stars of the show. I'd def have some fanatics and netters in here, and for me I would have taken the BSB here with the Bad Moon banner. Also 2 NG shamans at level 1 for some Sneaky Stealin'. I wouldn't take more than a block of 50 though. That gives you some cushioning against hits, but still keeps the block narrow enough that war machine templates can drift off of. Think about going with a five goblin front, with a reform or combat reform after engagement.

Remember that your trolls are stupid. If I'm right on my math, 86% of the time they are going to FAIL their leadership test. That means you MUST keep them next to your general, which limits your options. Throw a cheap gobbo boss in with them for some battlefield guidance.

Quite a different list from what I'd run but it looks like fun. Good luck.

naloth
23-04-2013, 01:39
I'm not sure what you intend for the wolf riders to do. With low leadership and stats they will tend to bounce off even Dwarf war machines since you can only bring 2 wolf riders in to actually attack (6 models total, cavalry counts as 3 each) against 3-4 Dwarfs. Also to keep in mind is that Dwarfs are ld9 w/stubborn while defending their machines and often have a character engineer hanging around to assist.

The Boar Boyz are a credible threat but will die fairly easily to a bit of shooting. They are a juicy target for an Organ gun, Crossbowman, or Handgunners.

The Chariot is nice, but solo chariots tend to die easily.

The Black Orcs are a nice, tough unit but Morks is probably wasted on Dwarves since MR is useless and runic characters can either stay off to the side (it's only BTB w/the BSB not the unit) or end up in a challenge where they escape it's effects. I'd pit the Dwarf Lord I just posted against either him (even w/o runes he's got a GW, 2+ save, and two shield bearers to help out) or your warboss in a challenge (sure you get 6 attacks, but they get capped at S5 and he'll save on a 3+ re-rolled).

The SOs are good, add the Shrunken Head for a 5+ ward. Otherwise, there's basically no point in taking the lvl2. Two spells won't get past Dwarf anti-magic unless you plan on irresistible/miscasts.

I prefer shooter NG or shields... 10 extra S3 attacks aren't going to win you CC against a combat block of Dwarfs (10 attacks, 1/2 hit, 1/3 wound, 2/3 past heavy armor give you ~1 wound). Fanatics would be nice too.

Trolls are good but will have rely on your general/bsb unit. If it's either pulled away or killed, this unit is basically useless.

Manglers will soak some shooting, but I wouldn't expect a lot else. Doomdivers are good, but catapults would be better if you're going anti-artillery. Otherwise you'll planning to shoot infantry that may be involved in CC (and not a valid target).

I just posted a 2400 point Dwarf list, you can see the tactics I suggest there for displacing and crushing things early in the game.

Gradolt
23-04-2013, 16:56
Thats a good list, lots of chaff. Bu I would drop your boar chariot to raise the number of black orcs to 24. If he see that you have your general in there, he will use his shooting to make that little unit disappear. And 80 NGs is too much, make 2 block of 40. Dwarfs don't have a lot of attack, but those attacks are strong. Even a hammerer unit with a champion cannot kill more than 11 NGs a turn, so, if you have 40, you'll be steadfast for 2 turns... enough time to bring your trolls on the side.

The tactic i use usually against Dwarfs is to make him split his shot... he must deal with your chaff, you manglers and your trolls. If he shoot all this, your infantry block will be full!

Orien
17-06-2013, 21:04
I'm not sure what you intend for the wolf riders to do. With low leadership and stats they will tend to bounce off even Dwarf war machines since you can only bring 2 wolf riders in to actually attack (6 models total, cavalry counts as 3 each) against 3-4 Dwarfs. Also to keep in mind is that Dwarfs are ld9 w/stubborn while defending their machines and often have a character engineer hanging around to assist.

The Boar Boyz are a credible threat but will die fairly easily to a bit of shooting. They are a juicy target for an Organ gun, Crossbowman, or Handgunners.

The Chariot is nice, but solo chariots tend to die easily.

The Black Orcs are a nice, tough unit but Morks is probably wasted on Dwarves since MR is useless and runic characters can either stay off to the side (it's only BTB w/the BSB not the unit) or end up in a challenge where they escape it's effects. I'd pit the Dwarf Lord I just posted against either him (even w/o runes he's got a GW, 2+ save, and two shield bearers to help out) or your warboss in a challenge (sure you get 6 attacks, but they get capped at S5 and he'll save on a 3+ re-rolled).

The SOs are good, add the Shrunken Head for a 5+ ward. Otherwise, there's basically no point in taking the lvl2. Two spells won't get past Dwarf anti-magic unless you plan on irresistible/miscasts.

I prefer shooter NG or shields... 10 extra S3 attacks aren't going to win you CC against a combat block of Dwarfs (10 attacks, 1/2 hit, 1/3 wound, 2/3 past heavy armor give you ~1 wound). Fanatics would be nice too.

Trolls are good but will have rely on your general/bsb unit. If it's either pulled away or killed, this unit is basically useless.

Manglers will soak some shooting, but I wouldn't expect a lot else. Doomdivers are good, but catapults would be better if you're going anti-artillery. Otherwise you'll planning to shoot infantry that may be involved in CC (and not a valid target).

I just posted a 2400 point Dwarf list, you can see the tactics I suggest there for displacing and crushing things early in the game.

Apologies for the late reply to this thread all, ive been really busy with work and holidays etc but thought id let everyone know how I got on.

I had a good bit of fortune on my side after animosity forced a wolf riders charge into the dwarf organ gun, and a misfire delayed some shooting from one of his cannons but all went to plan and I managed to come away with a pretty convincing win.

The list I faced was something like:

Lord with re-rollable 1+ with the max attack permitted against him as S5
2 Cannons
Organ Gun
Fully Tooled up grudgethrower
30+ Longbeards with GW
35+ Warriors with GW
24 Hammerers
10 Thunderers
Runesmith
18 miners

First off I will address the mistake I made when composing my list - I hadnt considered that when in a challenge the characters are no longer considered as in btb with the models next to them in their unit, so taking Morks war banner was indeed a waste of time and points. This is something that i will bear in mind for future games

The stars of the show were undoubtedly the Wolf riders, it is incorrect that Cavalry are classed as Monstrous when fighting war machines. The wording in the BRB states "Obviously, some models are bigger than others, so monstrous infantry/cavalry/beasts each count as three models when selected to fight a war machine..." Note the wording here Monstrous infantry/cavalry/beasts - these three words are are interchangeable and are intended to follow the word monstrous. To further emphasise this point, there is no category in warhammer that lists a trooptype as "beasts", only "monstrous beasts" exist. Therefore all five of the wolf riders could fight in close combat with the war machines, something that my experienced opponent (and also a VERY good player) and I discussed and agreed on prior to the game.

The point of the wolf riders in the list was in principle to war machine hunt, however at no point did I expect them to win a prolonged combat, only to occupy the war machines until I got my larger combat blocks into battle and limit their impact, as it was the dice rolls were favourable for me in this game and I had removed my opponents artillery by turn three. This was also helped by a really lucky spell getting through by my level 2 which enabled me to position my mangler squig right amongst his backline. I find with magic against Dawi that numerous attempts at small casting result at something getting through purely through law of averages. It was the only spell that I successfully cast in the entire game.

The wolf riders were positioned evenly spaced across the battlefield with their vanguard rule moving them up 12", the thinking behind this was to limit to effect of failed panic tests should they be spooked by their shooting. The dawi shooting was further neutralised by the composition of my list, my combat blocks each presented a tempting target to his cannons etc and therefore absorbed the damage more efficiently by each taking on board a portion of the damage. The trolls in particular were an effective unit in this game purely because it influenced his drop of the hammerers and lord, this was the unit that would effectively nail any of my combat units, but no Dawi lord fancies 6 vomit attacks ignoring his armour saves so he was careful to avoid the unit, meaning I could use them to reliably escort my units to wherever i liked.

I think the next time i play my opponent it wont be as one sided, but we still had great fun, and he has tabled me enough times to have one back!

Kain187
18-06-2013, 02:45
[QUOTE=naloth;6735714]I'm not sure what you intend for the wolf riders to do. With low leadership and stats they will tend to bounce off even Dwarf war machines since you can only bring 2 wolf riders in to actually attack (6 models total, cavalry counts as 3 each) against 3-4 Dwarfs.

You are reading this wrong. It is Monstrous Cavalry/infantry/beasts that count as 3 not normal cavalry. Regular cavalry you get your full 6. I think if you put spears with the wolf riders they will be fine at taking our warmachines.