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Ero-Senin
25-04-2013, 13:53
So with the new High Elves coming out I just wanted to double check the re-rolling attacks with ASF. If a unit has ASF and ASL (because of great weapons) it strikes in initiative order right? Does it still get to re-roll attacks against lower initiative as ASF has been cancelled out? My thoughts would be no, but wanted to check what people think because I know some people will argue that they still re-roll.

Asensur
25-04-2013, 14:14
"If a model has both this rule and Always Strikes First, the two cancel out and neither applies so use the model's Initiative."

So, Always Strike First do not use the model's Initiative, and so you do not have re-rolls.

Vipoid
25-04-2013, 14:16
So with the new High Elves coming out I just wanted to double check the re-rolling attacks with ASF. If a unit has ASF and ASL (because of great weapons) it strikes in initiative order right? Does it still get to re-roll attacks against lower initiative as ASF has been cancelled out?

No. Since ASF has been cancelled out, this also includes the rerolls it grants.

Ero-Senin
25-04-2013, 14:24
Thanks guys. This is what I always thought but was worried it might get argued against. Hate swordmasters re-rolling. I hate 'em. I hate 'em!

Asensur
25-04-2013, 14:34
Thanks guys. This is what I always thought but was worried it might get argued against. Hate swordmasters re-rolling. I hate 'em. I hate 'em!

2 weeks and that will be over. (if Martial Prowess does not give re-rolls, as Speed of Asuryian dissappears and 'normal' Always Strike First takes place)

Ero-Senin
25-04-2013, 14:45
I know, can't wait. Exactly what this question was in preparation for :)

Wilhelm das Blutige
01-05-2013, 21:39
Until the new army book comes out, the ruling is as per the High Elves Amendment in Errata and FAQ.

Sword Masters have ASF, over-riding ASL for great weapon, and so still gets to re-roll to hits if initiative is greater.

I'm hoping they make the White Lions Forest Strider more useful (other than don't have to take dangerous terrain tests in woods that turn out to be a Venom Thicket).

Mr_Rose
01-05-2013, 22:08
Until the new army book comes out, the ruling is as per the High Elves Amendment in Errata and FAQ.

Sword Masters have ASF, over-riding ASL for great weapon, and so still gets to re-roll to hits if initiative is greater.

I'm hoping they make the White Lions Forest Strider more useful (other than don't have to take dangerous terrain tests in woods that turn out to be a Venom Thicket).

Who asked about swordmasters? The OP just wanted to confirm some details of the generic case, occasioned by the imminent HE rerelease.

Wilhelm das Blutige
02-05-2013, 09:00
Who asked about swordmasters? The OP just wanted to confirm some details of the generic case, occasioned by the imminent HE rerelease.

Ero-Senin did, a few posts after opening the thread....."Hate swordmasters re-rolling. I hate 'em. I hate 'em!"

Avian
02-05-2013, 09:29
He wasn't asking about Swordmasters, though. Just making a statement. :p

Malagor
02-05-2013, 11:06
Hmm but a related question, a unit has ASF but with great weapons and they are attacked by spell, item or weapon that gives the ASL.
Would this make them true ASL or wouldn't it stack?

Vipoid
02-05-2013, 11:17
Hmm but a related question, a unit has ASF but with great weapons and they are attacked by spell, item or weapon that gives the ASL.
Would this make them true ASL or wouldn't it stack?

Multiple additional instances of ASF or ASL don't stack.

So, if a unit has both ASF and ASL, it can't 'regain' ASF via a spell, and likewise can't be forced to strike last, because of a spell or ability that confers ASL.

OmegaMan
02-05-2013, 12:01
He wasn't asking about Swordmasters, though. Just making a statement. :p

I think Sword Masters were implied in the original posting. As far as I know, Sword Masters are the only High Elves that have great weapons (halberds and such-like having their own entry in the Weapons section of the rules).

The High Elves FAQ states that the Always Strikes First for Speed of Asuryan takes precedence (over the great weapon rule), even using Sword Masters as an example. So if they have the higher initiative, they do get to re-roll their failed to hit rolls.

Artinam
02-05-2013, 12:22
White Lions have Great Weapons :)

FatTrucker
02-05-2013, 14:48
Straight forward enough, ASL, cancels out ASF and combat is resolved on initiative as normal without re-rolls.
If a unit type has a special rule that runs contrary to this then you apply the special rule.

Kloud13
02-05-2013, 16:13
I'm just going to have a good chuckle when the book comes out, and the rumoured "Elven Weapons" rule exsists. rumoured to be that elven GW do not have ASL, and maybe even allow parry save with Shield and Spear.

Blkc57
02-05-2013, 16:40
I'm just going to have a good chuckle when the book comes out, and the rumoured "Elven Weapons" rule exsists. rumoured to be that elven GW do not have ASL, and maybe even allow parry save with Shield and Spear.

From what I have seen of the book (which consists of 10 min to read it over before having to hand it to the next person), such a rule doesn't exist, looks like its just straight ASF which when mixed with the ASL gives you initiative order. But in a day or so everyone will found out exactly anyway.

RanaldLoec
02-05-2013, 20:08
I have the book here

Normal always strikes first.

NO elven weapon rule

So high elves with great weapons strike in initiative order.