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Kalandros
25-04-2013, 20:14
Situation: Big ol' Slann in his Temple Guard bunker, I declare a challenge, he has no Champion or character other than the Slann. Is there any rule protecting it from challenges?
If not, then this means that by declining, he forfeits his Inspiring Presence and Hold Your Ground rule for the close combat phase, correct?

Artiee
26-04-2013, 11:18
Correct...

stryperred
26-04-2013, 19:49
Correct...

I have to disagree on this! I'd read this same quesation on here and the same answer came up. I was talking to two guys at our gaming club that play games on the tournament circuit and they say there is no way on Gods earth that a challenge with a lord in the third rank protected by TG. Would be allowed to take a challenge. That is why he has the TG to protect him. So no you can't imho and others as well : ))

Kalandros
26-04-2013, 20:05
stryperred, this isn't real life, its a fantasy game with rules. If you have no rules reference to back your claim then you're on the wrong forum

stryperred
26-04-2013, 21:01
stryperred, this isn't real life, its a fantasy game with rules. If you have no rules reference to back your claim then you're on the wrong forum

No joke i know. So in the same vain prove that i'm wrong? But to try and knock what i'm saying with no claim to back what your saying is no better is it?

thesoundofmusica
26-04-2013, 22:12
No joke i know. So in the same vain prove that i'm wrong? But to try and knock what i'm saying with no claim to back what your saying is no better is it?

Well the rules do say that if your character is part of a unit that is in base contact with an enemy unit he is eligible for issuing and accepting challenges. We know the rules for challenges. Nowhere does it say "unless of course you are in the second rank of a temple guard unit..." Or similar. I have the lizardmen armybook and there is no such rule for slann or temple guard in it.

So basically the same answer keeps coming up but hey you "talked to two guys at the club and they say..." Yeah.

FatTrucker
26-04-2013, 23:37
A challenge issued is one character calling on any opponent to fight in mortal combat. Its not directed at a specific character, any character or champion can answer.
In addition if you only have a single character or champion in the unit then he must either accept or decline the challenge. His placement in the unit is completely irrelevant with regard to challenges and has no basis in the rules at all.
If a challenge is refused then he is placed in the rear rank and all bonuses he confers don't apply......unless he's Skaven ;)

Blkc57
27-04-2013, 02:55
No joke i know. So in the same vain prove that i'm wrong? But to try and knock what i'm saying with no claim to back what your saying is no better is it?

Listen my friend, its on page 102 of BRB, the Slann is a completely valid target for a challenge there is nothing in the Lizardman book that protects him. The reason why some people laughed is that telling us "two guys" you know said something is not a legitimate source to cite in the rules section.

Artinam
27-04-2013, 14:53
The all bonuses part isn't true, just that he doesn't confer leadership anymore...yeah its weird.

Also line of sight may become a bit harder for the slann.

Glen_Savet
27-04-2013, 16:23
The Slann may be sent "to the back" of the unit, but then the Temple Guard will shove him back into the 2nd rank due to their unit special rule, which overrides the main rulebook. He still won't confer leadership however.

Blkc57
27-04-2013, 16:55
The all bonuses part isn't true, just that he doesn't confer leadership anymore...yeah its weird.

Also line of sight may become a bit harder for the slann.

Also if the Slann is the BSB as well as general his "Hold your ground" rule is lost. No "inspiring presence" and no "hold your ground" can be serious for the army.

warplock
28-04-2013, 06:37
When a Slann is in TG he can't be challenged, as they protect him... And when two Skaven characters are in the same unit one may force the other to accept a challenge (backstabbing) or even attack each other... Blood Knights can choose not to overrun because they're highly disciplined masters of battle and not rabid dogs.
Rules and fluff are two completely different things.

AntaresCD
30-04-2013, 01:30
This seems to pop up periodically.

I did a breakdown on the actual printed rules a few months back. Seems a lot of people add their interpretation (or edition lag).

You can read it here: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?355577-Major-game-changing-ruling-in-the-new-FAQs-Keep-up-to-date!-Affects-all-armies&p=6505182#post6505182

In summary though, there is nothing, repeat nothing, that excludes Slaan in TG from the challenge rules. The only grey area is when he would move back into his "normal" position if he refused.

Learn2Eel
30-04-2013, 03:22
That's a trick I never noticed before. My poor Lizardmen-playing buddy won't be so happy when I nuke his Temple Guard unit (perhaps with a White Lion death star combined with a Frost Phoenix) he runs and his Slaan automatically dies....or he is forced to accept the challenge against a nasty character, and die vaingloriously. Nice.

Importman
30-04-2013, 03:30
Currently the rules states that the Slann has to accept or face losing out on his leadership bonus etc.
Fluff wise there is no way in hell his temple guards are going to let him fight.
So that's exactly why when the new lizardmen army book GW will have to write in extra rules to clarify this exact situation.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 2

warplock
30-04-2013, 06:52
That's a trick I never noticed before. My poor Lizardmen-playing buddy won't be so happy when I nuke his Temple Guard unit (perhaps with a White Lion death star combined with a Frost Phoenix) he runs and his Slaan automatically dies....or he is forced to accept the challenge against a nasty character, and die vaingloriously. Nice.

They're stubborn with a Slann. Also, the Slann would never be 'forced' to accept a challenge, except against Wulfrik perhaps. He can just choose to not accept.

Blkc57
30-04-2013, 07:26
They're stubborn with a Slann. Also, the Slann would never be 'forced' to accept a challenge, except against Wulfrik perhaps. He can just choose to not accept.

Stubborn with no rerolls and on an 8 instead of a 9 is still a pretty big deal, especially since if the Slann is in fact the BSB he dies if that unit breaks. And never mock Wulfrik :p, I've seen that man do some pretty amazing things, him and Festus are absolute MVPs in my book.

Kalandros
30-04-2013, 09:25
Stubborn 9 instead of 10 if they got standard of discipline in there o;

warplock
30-04-2013, 17:00
Stubborn with no rerolls and on an 8 instead of a 9 is still a pretty big deal, especially since if the Slann is in fact the BSB he dies if that unit breaks. And never mock Wulfrik :p, I've seen that man do some pretty amazing things, him and Festus are absolute MVPs in my book.

True, they wouldn't get the rerolls, it would make a big difference. Oh I didn't mock him, I know all too well how good he is. Not quite so horrific since the marauder nerf, but pretty good still!