PDA

View Full Version : How to deal with T10 Great Unclean One?



xxslayerxx
28-04-2013, 22:50
So I came up against a guy with 2 great unclean ones and 2 demon princes (flying) and other stuff. What I really struggled with and what really baffled me is that all of them were lv 2-3 psychers and 3 out 4 rolled iron arm....so I had t10 great unclean ones....which I had to deal with...really struggled tbh...I used tau and had a decent list with a lot of s8 weapons and s6 weapons aswell....and even then I couldn't do much damage, I was getting beaten pretty bad, the game ended with a draw, but I didn't have much left at all....3 models was all that I had....anyone got any advice on how to deal with 2 great unclean ones with iron arm?

Drasanil
28-04-2013, 22:59
Sniper Kroot? IIRC they don't care about toughness if they roll a six to wound.

Death Whisper
28-04-2013, 22:59
Tau have pretty good sniper units (Kroot & sniper drone teams).

MajorWesJanson
28-04-2013, 23:07
snipers and poison weapons.

ntw3001
28-04-2013, 23:43
If there's one thing I'd expect a Great Unclean One to take in its stride, it's poison. I prefer to think they face Nurgle armies armed with big soapy sponges and loofahs.

lantzkev
28-04-2013, 23:44
People swap their poison rounds for antibiotic rounds.

KhornateLord
28-04-2013, 23:46
If there's one thing I'd expect a Great Unclean One to take in its stride, it's poison. I prefer to think they face Nurgle armies armed with big soapy sponges and loofahs.

Little known fact about dark eldar.
They can alter what the splinters their splinter rifles fire are made out of.
Against Nurgle daemons, it's commonly antibiotics. While against Grey Knights, it's awesome grey knight fluff from 4th ed and earlier.

Gungo
29-04-2013, 00:14
So I came up against a guy with 2 great unclean ones and 2 demon princes (flying) and other stuff. What I really struggled with and what really baffled me is that all of them were lv 2-3 psychers and 3 out 4 rolled iron arm....so I had t10 great unclean ones....which I had to deal with...really struggled tbh...I used tau and had a decent list with a lot of s8 weapons and s6 weapons aswell....and even then I couldn't do much damage, I was getting beaten pretty bad, the game ended with a draw, but I didn't have much left at all....3 models was all that I had....anyone got any advice on how to deal with 2 great unclean ones with iron arm?

it sounds like he had some luck on his rolls and you guys ended in a draw. Unless he had a really crappy list that sounds like a pretty balanced and fun game. But everyone is right snipers and poison is the only way to reliably damage that kind of toughness.

KhornateLord
29-04-2013, 00:24
it sounds like he had some luck on his rolls and you guys ended in a draw. Unless he had a really crappy list that sounds like a pretty balanced and fun game. But everyone is right snipers and poison is the only way to reliably damage that kind of toughness.

Yeah.
There is a reason that T9+ creatures aren't (AFAIK) normally used in 40k.
T8 requires S5 to deal with, which is a big ask. Requiring S7 to deal with a monster on 6s, is no fun at all, not to mention REALLY hard to deal with.

Sounds like bad luck that they rolled so well. The only way to deal with that kind of combo is fleshbane, poison, rending, snipers, or something like runes of warding(?) which mean they are more likely to fail and injure themselves.

WhiteTemplars
29-04-2013, 00:34
Little known fact about dark eldar.
They can alter what the splinters their splinter rifles fire are made out of.
Against Nurgle daemons, it's commonly antibiotics. While against Grey Knights, it's awesome grey knight fluff from 4th ed and earlier. This made me laugh pretty hard. Thanks. To the OP, bring Sniper Drones man. They will take that T10 fat man down in pretty short order. That is unless he also has a rerollable invulnerable, or 3+ armor, or 4+ FNP. All of which he can get from Demonic rewards but are random in obtaining.

cuda1179
29-04-2013, 00:40
Yeah.
There is a reason that T9+ creatures aren't (AFAIK) normally used in 40k.
T8 requires S5 to deal with, which is a big ask. Requiring S7 to deal with a monster on 6s, is no fun at all, not to mention REALLY hard to deal with.

Sounds like bad luck that they rolled so well. The only way to deal with that kind of combo is fleshbane, poison, rending, snipers, or something like runes of warding(?) which mean they are more likely to fail and injure themselves.

I had a similar situation happen once when I was playing with my Necrons. I thought the game was over for me when my Overlord got charged. The Deamon ended up beating himself over the head for 4 turns. Thanks Mindshackle scarabs!!!!

A.T.
29-04-2013, 09:16
To expand on this topic - what are peoples thoughts for dealing with these kinds of targets when you've either (a)been caught without snipers or (b)play an army like templars or sisters with no access to snipers/poison to begin with, nor the speed to evade them?

BigHammer
29-04-2013, 10:03
To expand on this topic - what are peoples thoughts for dealing with these kinds of targets when you've either (a)been caught without snipers or (b)play an army like templars or sisters with no access to snipers/poison to begin with, nor the speed to evade them?

Sisters specifically? Psybolt crossbow thingies - kill it with perils. Nothing that's not a psyker is going to be greater than T8, which missiles and multimeltas can deal with.
Templars: Thundernators kill everything. Not sure if they have any anti-psyker stuff left these days, but that'll help too, for the same reasons it will for sisters.
Caught without snipers: Poison weapons work too, as does anything that wounds on a fixed number. In casual play, ask to change up your list a bit to make the game more fair. In tournament play, learn for next time to not get caught without.

OP: You may, in addition to sniper Kroot and sniper drone teams, may want to look at Eldar allies (for now, at least) - pathfinders and a runes of warding Farseer will both hard counter high toughness psykers. A two-power runes Farseer and five Pathfinders cost exactly 250 points, handily.

xxslayerxx
29-04-2013, 10:05
yh it would be all gd but I don't have any kroot lol and only have 3 sniper drone teams, I mean I could get some more I guess its just a bit tight on money tbh, but I guess that would be the only way to deal with it.....as I play tau I don't really have poisoned weapons. And that guy hasn't lost a single game yet as its part of our campaigh (well apart from grey knigts) even my friends guardsmen struggle with that lis, and he has a lot of tanks, but thanx anyway...oh yh and to add they all rolled fell no pain gift thingi....both the great unclean ones did anyway, and one of them had an extra wound

Excessus
29-04-2013, 10:05
GUOs and Princes can't score. Play the scenario, not the army.

Without snipers or poison, tarpits and roadblocks are the way unless you are fighting Purge the Alien or something similar...

xxslayerxx
29-04-2013, 10:13
it was killpoints scenario unfortinatly :/ I guess I better hope I get more luck next time

Excessus
29-04-2013, 10:18
it was killpoints scenario unfortinatly :/ I guess I better hope I get more luck next time
Remember that you are just as mobile as GUOs are. They walk 6, you walk 6, but they can't run. Princes should be a higher prio than the GUOs because they are faster, and at T8, S5 weapons will hurt them on 6es...besides, they can hit themselves pretty well with grounding tests @S9...

Fire and maneuver... pew pew

Jonny Draigo
29-04-2013, 10:19
Itīs easy with Eldar, throw singing spears at it, shoot some wraithguard, warp hunters, then charge it with seer council that you threw spears with (possibly with incuded Eldard and princess Yriel). So, you are T10? Neverminid, I wound you with all those things on 2+ anyways :D

A.T.
29-04-2013, 10:28
Sisters specifically? Psybolt crossbow thingiesCondemnors are useless against anything with T9 or higher as they require an unsaved wound at S5 at 15pts per shot.
(they are also useless in general compared to generic combi-plasma/melta weapons, but that's besides the point)



Not sure if they have any anti-psyker stuff left these days, but that'll help too, for the same reasons it will for sisters.Templars have no anti-psyker weapons. Neither faction can block psychic activation on enemy psykers.



GUOs and Princes can't score. Play the scenario, not the army.
Without snipers or poison, tarpits and roadblocks are the way unless you are fighting Purge the Alien or something similar...I can see templars tarpitting with stormshield terminators and fearless units. I'm not sure what you expect sisters to roll out that's going to do more than give a GUO or flying MC a free consolidation move though?

lantzkev
29-04-2013, 10:31
take a necron ally and go MSS on it's butt =D

Ruination Drinker
29-04-2013, 10:32
Tie him up for the whole game with a Lone Wolf that costs 1/3 the points. Thanks Phil Kelly!

Malagor
29-04-2013, 10:34
Itīs easy with Eldar, throw singing spears at it, shoot some wraithguard, warp hunters, then charge it with seer council that you threw spears with (possibly with incuded Eldard and princess Yriel). So, you are T10? Neverminid, I wound you with all those things on 2+ anyways :D
Pretty much.
Have Eldrad in a squad of Dire Avengers with a Exarch with defend and have Yriel run in as back-up. See the great unclean one get swamped with 2+ wounding, armor save ignoring(probably doesn't matter much to the daemon tho) and at the same time Defend will lower the attacks of the Daemon each round, making him do less damage.

xxslayerxx
29-04-2013, 10:36
yh I was trying to outmanouver him and it did work...ish...but it didn't help that he ceased initiative. it demon princes were first to die...obv, as they are faster so they did die, but one of them managed to make my fire warrior squad flee, and the other one charged the riptide which was t4...due to them casting psychic powers which reduce toughness, so it got insta killed :/...which didn't help really

BigHammer
29-04-2013, 10:45
Condemnors are useless against anything with T9 or higher as they require an unsaved wound at S5 at 15pts per shot.
(they are also useless in general compared to generic combi-plasma/melta weapons, but that's besides the point)


Templars have no anti-psyker weapons. Neither faction can block psychic activation on enemy psykers.


I can see templars tarpitting with stormshield terminators and fearless units. I'm not sure what you expect sisters to roll out that's going to do more than give a GUO or flying MC a free consolidation move though?

My sisters knowledge is a bit lacking, didn't realise the Condemnors needed the unsaved wound. That blows :/
At least you can throw Celestine at them. Isn't she an auto-include in most sisters armies now? WS7, I7, bunch of attacks that wound on a 4+ and are AP3 on a model that, yeah, might die, but will likely get back up and do it again next turn. And next...
The flying MC are a bit tougher, I'll admit. Might need to look to allies (not sisters' strong point, I know)...

Excessus
29-04-2013, 10:46
I was under the impression that the same psychic power wasen't cumulative with itself, only different psychic powers were... (page 68 in brb)

xxslayerxx
29-04-2013, 10:59
oh that's very interesting, very very interesting....as that would have made a lot of difference, I shall defo look into that thanx, I don't use psychic powers so I don't really know

A.T.
29-04-2013, 11:07
At least you can throw Celestine at themWith average dice and nothing guarding the MC she'd chip away a little under one wound every other turn, less any kind of rerolled saves, FNP or regeneration.
A GUO with one or more exalted rewards can kill Celestine permanently (doomstone) though it's very unlikely.

Drasanil
29-04-2013, 11:11
A GUO with one or more exalted rewards can kill Celestine permanently (doomstone) though it's very unlikely.

How so? Last I checked it didn't have a rule saying 'kills Celestine permanently'.

A.T.
29-04-2013, 11:13
How so? Last I checked it didn't have a rule saying 'kills Celestine permanently'.Celestine doesn't get her Ld back when she resurrects.

At best I suppose you could roll to get her back up, place the model down, at which point the whole 'reduced to 0 leadership' clause kicks in and she dies again.

Drasanil
29-04-2013, 11:15
Celestine doesn't get her Ld back when she resurrects.

Haha, hadn't thought of that.

BigHammer
29-04-2013, 11:18
I was under the impression that the same psychic power wasen't cumulative with itself, only different psychic powers were... (page 68 in brb)

Actually, yeah, I just presumed that the GUO was a high enough toughness that they could get T10 from a single casting, but that isn't the case, is it? What T are GUO? Afaik, Iron Arm gives +D3 T (in addition to its other benefits), so you'd need to start at T7+ to be able to reach T10.

Malagor
29-04-2013, 11:23
They are T7 I think.

A.T.
29-04-2013, 11:23
What T are GUO?They start at 7.

Off the top of my head they are the only model that can manage T10. There are a few potential T9s though.

BigHammer
29-04-2013, 11:28
Ah, cool. Cheers :)

My final piece of advice for dealing with this, then, is to join the Dark (Eldar) side and laugh (maniacally) in your opponent's face when he deploys 4 monstrous creatures as the bulk of his force opposite your warriors, trueborn and venoms... *insert evil smiley here*

MagicHat
29-04-2013, 11:43
To expand on this topic - what are peoples thoughts for dealing with these kinds of targets when you've either (a)been caught without snipers or (b)play an army like templars or sisters with no access to snipers/poison to begin with, nor the speed to evade them?

Retributors with HB and rending. Squad of five with four HB pulls off a mighty 0.55 wounds against 5++ with FNP.

... Yeah I got nothing.

EDIT: Wait, I got it! Squad of 10 retributors, in rapid fire range. Deals about 1 wound...

Excessus
29-04-2013, 11:45
Actually, yeah, I just presumed that the GUO was a high enough toughness that they could get T10 from a single casting, but that isn't the case, is it? What T are GUO? Afaik, Iron Arm gives +D3 T (in addition to its other benefits), so you'd need to start at T7+ to be able to reach T10.
Yeah, I was refering to enfeeble making the big bot T4, I thought it was T6 from the start...so that would require two casts of the same power on it...

Radium
29-04-2013, 11:48
1: Take Eldar allies
2: Take Farseer with Runes of Warding
3: ????
4: Profit!

Seriously, it's a lot easier if he never manages to cast Iron Arm in the first place :D.

A.T.
29-04-2013, 11:48
EDIT: Wait, I got it! Squad of 10 retributors, in rapid fire range. Deals about 1 wound...Half a wound - got to roll for faith too :p

T10
29-04-2013, 13:06
How to deal with T10 Great Unclean One?

Heeyyyy!

-T10

Rated_lexxx
29-04-2013, 15:10
well I Play DE and enjoyed the day my wyches took down a Great unclean one with splinter PISTOLS :)

Chem-Dog
29-04-2013, 15:47
Knight commander Pask + Punisher pattern Leman Russ + law of averages.

A.T.
29-04-2013, 16:00
Knight commander Pask + Punisher pattern Leman Russ + law of averages.Possibility of wounding a T10 creature with an S5 weapon : 0%... [/liberty prime]

oftenwrong
29-04-2013, 16:57
GK with psilencers. 24”, 6 shots hits all daemons on 3’s reroll 1’s, wounds on 4’s reroll 1’s.

Problem is he can have a 2+ cover or 2++ invl.

Xeen
29-04-2013, 17:49
You can take the Telepathy lore primas power. I put down a few big ugly beasts with that power as the difference between LD10 and their LD9 is pretty telling with that power. Also if you know you are playing them and bringing a psyker, you can always bring a force staff. Still need 6's to wound but if you get one through you can insta-death him. .

Excessus
29-04-2013, 19:05
Xeen, Iron Arm gives Eternal Warrior as well...no IDing from force weapons...

Xeen
29-04-2013, 20:14
Xeen, Iron Arm gives Eternal Warrior as well...no IDing from force weapons...

Ouch, forgot about that one!

Raverrn
29-04-2013, 20:35
Seriously, snipers. 9 Sniper Drones will put ~9 wounds on him at 24" for under 150 points. Assuming he doesn't have a cover save (or you ignore it because Tau) that's 4 unsaved through 5++ & FNP.

Edit: For double hilarity, an Ethereal with Invocation of Fire and a Commander with Puretide (Monster Hunter) pumps that up to 9 unsaved wounds.

Caitsidhe
30-04-2013, 12:58
I kill him with poison and/or the Black Mace. Great Unclean one with massive Toughness charges or is in easy charge range because opposing player feels pretty confident. Black Mace has "Fleshbane" and often kills the hell out of it. Plague Marines have Posion.

LordofShadows
30-04-2013, 13:08
I would simply walk up to him with my Bro captain and his pallies. Have the pallies cast hammerhand then watch as the bro captain wacks him at str10 and takes a Psychic test to insta kill him. If that fails oh well the GuO still has to pass a LD check or die

atlantis
30-04-2013, 13:12
guard can just take a lot of lascannons or leaman russ demolishers.
nids can cause some fun by getting there psykers in a shadow of the warp field, then use something like a swarmlord or hive tyrant with boneswords (so the 3D6 instant death test).
GK and SW can use a psychic power for take a I test or die. while Gk can stack up hammerhand and daemon hammers. or just constant stack of hammerhand and a might of titan on a libarian. also SW have there block any psychic power in 24" in a 4+

BigHammer
30-04-2013, 13:47
I would simply walk up to him with my Bro captain and his pallies. Have the pallies cast hammerhand then watch as the bro captain wacks him at str10 and takes a Psychic test to insta kill him. If that fails oh well the GuO still has to pass a LD check or die

It's been said before, Iron Arm gives its recipient Eternal Warrior. I think Daemon Bane still works, but Force Weapons certainly won't. The S10 Daemon Hammers are probably your best bet, but GK don't get better than a 5++ (or 4++ for an Iron Halo) invulnerable to survive to get those hammer hits in, and they cost a lot.

If Grey Knights are what folk are using to kill it, why not just take a couple of Storm Ravens? The GUO gets no saves of any sort against perils of the warp from their missiles, which only need to hit to cause the effect. It works wonders against large Nid beasties too, since the FAQ says the individual psykers hit by the missiles take their own perils wounds. Okay so each Raven can only fire 2 each per turn, but how many wounds does a GUO have? This can also be used to snipe psychic characters out of units without allowing LoS, something I've long thought was broken as heck, but oh well... Broodlords, Warlocks, Sorcerors, etc. are all vulnerable. In fact, the faction most vulnerable are... Grey Knights! Hit a unit of them anywhere with this missile and, because of the way perils are resolved on units of Brotherhood psykers, the Justicar is always the first to die, with no saves of any kind whatsoever. And it's one perils per hit, since they all count as psykers, too...

A.T.
30-04-2013, 14:05
Okay so each Raven can only fire 2 each per turn, but how many wounds does a GUO have?2-3 more than the stormraven has missiles, depending on daemonic rewards.

Psyshock against GK squads inflicts just a single dead model as they are treated as a single psychic unit, not a unit of psykers (for the same reason that you can't put a culexus assassin in the middle of the army and get a hundred shots).

gwarsh41
30-04-2013, 14:25
I was on the opposite side of this. My first game against new Tau I brought a GUO who rolled Iron Arm, FnP and +3 armor. I made very poor mistakes and left too much in reserves which lead to me losing on the 3rd turn. The GUO however, we played until it died, the 5th turn.

It was a 1500pt game, there was about 1000pt of tau left at that point, including a riptide. I slothed around, but was eventually the cause of my own demise, I rolled snake eyes for Iron Arm and took a wound, then was only buffed +1T. FNP +4 is disgusting though. I think a GUO dropping behind enemy lines, even without iron arm, can be a serious issue for many people to deal with.

BigHammer
30-04-2013, 14:28
2-3 more than the stormraven has missiles, depending on daemonic rewards.

Psyshock against GK squads inflicts just a single dead model as they are treated as a single psychic unit, not a unit of psykers (for the same reason that you can't put a culexus assassin in the middle of the army and get a hundred shots).

It has 10-11 wounds? Fair enough. (to be honest, I'd be tempted to use 3 Ravens, but I said 2 in my last post which is, IIRC, 8 missiles).
And it was my understanding that Psyshock inflicted one perils per hit on a psyker, no? If the blast hits 4 models in the unit, it's hit the unit 4 times, so it's hit a psyker 4 times... so 4 perils, no? If I hit the same psyker once each with 2 missiles it would take 2 perils, after all.

A.T.
30-04-2013, 14:48
It has 10-11 wounds?No, it has 2-3 more than the stormraven has missiles, depending on daemonic rewards.



And it was my understanding that Psyshock inflicted one perils per hit on a psyker, no?None of the models in a normal GK squad have the 'psyker' rule.
However the squad in its entirety counts as a single psyker due to the brotherhood of psykers rule - so a psy-shock template generates one perils for every squad it hits.

BigHammer
30-04-2013, 14:53
None of the models in a normal GK squad have the 'psyker' rule.
However the squad in its entirety counts as a single psyker due to the brotherhood of psykers rule - so a psy-shock template generates one perils for every squad it hits.

I'll have a re-read of the Psyshock missile rules when I get home to clarify. I may easily have misread them. Cheers for the responses :)

A.T.
30-04-2013, 15:04
I'll have a re-read of the Psyshock missile rules when I get home to clarify."Any psyker hit by a mindstrike missile suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effects".

It's not the missile, it's the squad - only GK characters have the 'psyker' special rule. The psyker henchmen are hit pretty bad by it though as any perils of the warp from any source automatically wipes the whole squad out without saves.
Against GUOs it would certainly work if you had enough stormravens and strike relays.

BigHammer
30-04-2013, 15:42
"Any psyker hit by a mindstrike missile suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effects".

It's not the missile, it's the squad - only GK characters have the 'psyker' special rule. The psyker henchmen are hit pretty bad by it though as any perils of the warp from any source automatically wipes the whole squad out without saves.
Against GUOs it would certainly work if you had enough stormravens and strike relays.

Cool, thanks, that does seem to indicate only one perils against a squad. Still, that will automatically be the Justicar, won't it? The psyker/leader sniping still works.

MoonlightSonata
30-04-2013, 15:46
C'Tan Shard with Time's Arrow. It's only I2 right?

A.T.
30-04-2013, 16:09
C'Tan Shard with Time's Arrow. It's only I2 right?Nope, 4. Crons have deathmarks though.

MoonlightSonata
30-04-2013, 16:15
Hmm in that case, have the Shard travel with a cadre of whip coil wraiths. Thrill as the daemon player desperately tries to pass an initiative test with I1! That combo works against almost any big nasty provided you can close the gap.

atlantis
01-05-2013, 10:07
that doesn't work, the I modifier applys for order to hit, you take I tests without modyfyers

MoonlightSonata
01-05-2013, 10:15
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbp4dlKXLx1r2x7kr.png

EDIT: Can you point out where it says that in the BRB/FAQ? I've had a quick skim of both but I'm pressed for time at the moment.

atlantis
01-05-2013, 12:26
page 7, and after phone calling the GW questions line (had a game with nids and they said things like banchee masks, whip coils and lashwhips are only effecting the I for when they strike in CC, not for tests) they said it will be passed on for the errata teams, tho it didn't show up in the reacent ones

MoonlightSonata
01-05-2013, 12:58
Damn! Shards shrink ever further from usability. It could be funny to use on a Riptide though...

atlantis
01-05-2013, 13:32
I love in my gk using warp rift against crons and tau, and I have used it on a riptide :P