PDA

View Full Version : Lost the love for races of 40k; but still like the game...



ashc
27-05-2006, 13:07
I've recently come to a very strange conclusion; whilst in general i like the 40k game in itself, and i am incredibly hyped over the up and coming cities of death release (seems GW have really gone the right way over this one) I have hit a major brick wall:

Im completely off with all the races/armies in 40k.

I just can't get into any of them any more. When i first started about 7-8 years ago i began like most people with SMs, black templars to be precise. Armageddon came along and i suddenly had lots of cool things and my own army list, but i quickly got bored with them. Games Day a little while later and i pick up the new version of the CSM codex; now those were cool, and after reading Storm of Iron i knew what i wanted to do! Now i have the army and have been using them for the past 2 years, and to be quite honest, im bored to the back teeth with them too. I didnt play the '4 ordnance 9 oblits las/plas squads of DEFFFFF' army, but a balanced troop-heavy force, but after racking up alot of wins and coming to the conclusion that i think i have got the most i can out of the army, im wondering what to do next.

It seems i am all marined out. especially with the recent prevalence of marine players along with the bad tags these armies (sm and csm) have gained, i just dont want to play them any more, but i just cannot get into any of the other armies either.

what on earth should i do? I dont really want to just not play, like i said, i think its a great game good for a bit of fun, and i would really like to get into cities of death, but with what?

I would also like something that would be a challenge, marines ARE the most forgiving of armies so it definitely would seem to be a case of moving on.

cheers to anyone who replies giving a hoot,

Ash

Some guy (UK)
27-05-2006, 13:24
I would suggest the Guard due to their diversity, or even Tyranids- again, you can do a lot with these guys, but you seem like someone who yearns for something different. How about a Adeptus Abrites force, Adeptus Mechanicus force (SP?)- both of these could even be incorporated into a Demon Hunters force etc etc. Geanstealer Cult- again, a very cool idea, with many possibilites for conversions. Traitor guard- instead of the LATD list, use the guard list, so you have access to the full guard list, obviously you would have to take off the guard symbols etc etc.

Hope some of those ideas help.

Later, Some Guy

bluebugs
27-05-2006, 13:43
Proxy baby!!! I suggest a horde like list- Tyranids, Guard, Orks, ect. Then look at some models in the Fantasy section or maybe even the specialist games. You could have lizardmen tyranids/orks, or dwarf guard-they do come with guns. Hell, you could even give the kroot list a try. Just pick something you like and go for it.

KingNic
27-05-2006, 13:45
Do you even have to ask? (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33080)

ashc
27-05-2006, 13:46
I just have trouble with things i like; i mean, I already play fantasy (2000pts of dwarfs and chaos tzeentch) so thats an avenue already taken. I should probably add that when im home (this summer) i have a small group of mates i play with, who are also about to start up new armies anyway; a dark eldar/eldar player, tyranid player, and =][=/guard player, so to be honest it doesnt meave me much to play with.

Out of all the races i probably like the guard the most, but i always have difficulty writing armies i am particularly happy with, and going with a cool theme for them?

Ash

Axel
27-05-2006, 14:15
Orks are fun.
While I personally prefer Guard/WH, I think Orks yield the most fun per game. Try them with proxy. Buy yourself some 180 cheap gretchen from the old plastic 2nd edition and SWAMP your enemy. :)

Luke
27-05-2006, 14:20
I know what you mean matey. I hate all the races in 40k and although the ruleset is too simple, it works well when two underpowered armies like IG get together. Try and proxy in other wargames minis and re-enact small scale engagements from ww2 or make some new sci-fi battle. My current IG force is generic enough to fit into many different time frames given a little thought.

click here for bits and pieces from my army (http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/nsrdude/Imperial%20guard/) Its just 40k enough to work as 40k but still different enough to represent a comeplety different universe.

ashc
27-05-2006, 14:20
i dont like orks; i dont really like the barbarian horde thing, and i dont really want to paint all that green sorry :eyebrows:

Ash

sigur
27-05-2006, 14:26
Go for themed Lost and the Damned. They'll play at least some role in the MedusaV thing, offer MANY conversion possibilities, you surely can use some of the WHFB miniatures you already own, they have flavor en masse, they're a horde army and definitly not very forgiving.

ashc
27-05-2006, 14:31
Thanks for the link Luke; you have some nice stuff there. I have never really looked at historical gaming; its never really floated my boat, but i -do- like the less-fantastical or less sci-fi look the guard have.

Sigur, i have looked at LATD; i decided if i did something like it i would probably be more interested in traitor guard than muties though; and hence would probably use the guard list?

Ash

Inquisitor lorr
27-05-2006, 14:32
well theres a whole host of different new ideas you could do

Imperial guard
-adeptus mechanicus force/skitari
-heavy infantry elite teams
-last chancers but in the style of elite swat teams
-mechanised
-desert/urban/jungle warfare
-deep striking drop troops
-elysians
-traitor guard

Inquisition
-radical
-zealous preachers full of priest and flaggelents etc
-pure GKS
-Pure Sisters

Tau
-mechanised
-stealth raiding force
-o shovah

well theres a few slightly less used ideas,hope its helped

ashc
27-05-2006, 14:37
well theres a whole host of different new ideas you could do

Imperial guard
-adeptus mechanicus force/skitari
-heavy infantry elite teams
-last chancers but in the style of elite swat teams
-mechanised
-desert/urban/jungle warfare
-deep striking drop troops
-elysians
-traitor guard

Thanks Lorr; Im not a fan of the new last chancers (i have the old ones and occasionally still use the rules in WD240; Now THATS the dirty dozen!) I would probably do something urban warfare (tying in with COD). Im not a fan of mechanized guard, as i think too many pointless things end up with chimeras...



Inquisition
-radical
-zealous preachers full of priest and flaggelents etc
-pure GKS
-Pure Sisters

My friend is doing WHs so i feel a bit skanky doing that too; I wouldnt do GK's; namely as 1) i dont want to do more marines and 2) because i think GW ruined the fluff when suddenly they turn up to fight anyone they damn well like, no real reason needed :eyebrows:



Tau
-mechanised
-stealth raiding force
-o shovah

well theres a few slightly less used ideas,hope its helped

I really like how Tau play actually; shame i find the models boring (i like converting) and their background and general demeanor dire (no offence, its just me.)

Thanks for all that input though, i suppose i am getting somewhere? :confused:

Ash

NaT
28-05-2006, 02:13
I think you should borrow army books from friends and write up lists for pretty much everything you can think of. After looking at 2 army lists next to eachother it's pretty easy to find out what army you would rather play more.

Good luck.

MIGHTYPanhead
28-05-2006, 03:23
my opinion?

well, personally, I am in the opposite boat, I have plans for every race, I just can't find time to get to them all.

Personally, Kroot merc's are very cool, they've got a lot of conversion opportunities, and are a very, very unforgiving list. They're great in urban combat to boot.

If they're not in your avenue, you could look at IG, they're diverse enough to give any sort of list. For city fight themes, some ican think of are: Carapace guard, lots of sentinals, little tanks, LI theme. Armoured companies are another thing to look at, they're great in cityfight, but also unforgiving at the same time.

Eldar, which are coming out soon, are another option. You could go with a sort of LI theme, aspect heavy, no armour support. Or, the other way, with lots of falcons/support squads.

I can't think of more, but if you gave some idea as to which races rules you like more, I could give some better ideas

XxboxX
28-05-2006, 05:15
well i'd say thousand sons, but they are not marines,

but they play unlike any other army, and are very unforgiving.
they have great fluff, and with a solid list you can still be competitive.


if you really don't want to be near the power armour again, try orks for sure.

they are really unpredictable and you'll find a lot of humor in your games.
they're a really hit or miss army.

ashc
28-05-2006, 10:27
Its quite interesting to see i have some people agreeing with me; I was slightly worried i was the only one!

I suppose i should at this point list the races and what i make/think of them.

SM - Been there done that, not again.
CSM - Same thing as above
Eldar - Find them too 'weird' and arrogant; hence just not a race i can get into.
Dark Eldar - Same as above; awful models.
Necrons - Boring armylist, boring background, too similar to SMs statwise for my taste
Tau - I actually really like how they play; shame i find the model range boring and their whole background/character dire.
Nids - I would quite like to do a horde maybe; but I find the nids lack character (obviously besides CONSUME ALL) and i have a mate now starting them.
Orks - The barbarian horde in space thing just doesnt really do it for me im afraid; plus all that green...
Daemonhunters - Don't like the Malleus =][=s; really hate GKs new 'fluff' where they fight whoever they bloody like no excuses needed (AND they are still SMs!)
Witchhunters - I quite like WHs, and SOBs... slightly put off by an all-metal army though on student budget; and my mate is now starting a WH/Guard army.
Imp Guard - I like guard, but get stuck on the 'what sort of army to play, what background, what regiment, traitors or loyalists.... :confused:
Kroot - Just don't plain have an interest in the race nor the list they made.
LATD - I *think* if i did traitors i would just use the guard list, unless i came up with a FANTASTIC idea for cool mutant conversions.

Um i think thats the list.

Ash

Lord Lucifer
28-05-2006, 10:29
i dont like orks; i dont really like the barbarian horde thing, and i dont really want to paint all that green sorry :eyebrows:

Ash
Then have a read of the 2nd ed. codex, and if you can find anyone with it (like me!) Waaagh! Da Orks, 'Ere We Go, and Freebooterz!

Arguably the most distinctive fictional race/culture, certainly that GW have ever done.

Ignore the pamphlet that is the 3rd ed. Codex, that tells you precisely nothing about the Orks, and it's the most likely thing to make people think "Oh, Space Barbarians"




I hate the cliche too, the space barbarian theme is horrid and boring.
Me? I'm an Ork player, proper Ork. 10-odd years and ain't regretted a single moment of it!

ashc
28-05-2006, 10:34
Then have a read of the 2nd ed. codex, and if you can find anyone with it (like me!) Waaagh! Da Orks, 'Ere We Go, and Freebooterz!

Arguably the most distinctive fictional race/culture, certainly that GW have ever done.

Thanks Lord Luc. I will take a look, but i don't know, Orks have never really grabbed me at all.


my opinion?

well, personally, I am in the opposite boat, I have plans for every race, I just can't find time to get to them all.

Its funny, i used to be like that; but over time i have found that i look at races and alot of the 'glamour' has gone; is it me being jaded?

Although, i am like this for fantasy; I could realistically do almost every army; but i dont want another fantasy army, i want to play 40k.

Ash

Lord Lucifer
28-05-2006, 11:17
Thanks Lord Luc. I will take a look, but i don't know, Orks have never really grabbed me at all.

Answered merely with what works for me

After starting out with 40K liking the look of the Blood Angels, played a few games as the Orks with a friend of mine taking Blood Angels, and just came to the conclusion that there was something universally appealing to me about the Ork frame of mind.
The realisation came, in true Orky fashion, when I was perched upon the porcelain throne :p


Can't really say why, I just knew they were right for me.
Fell I may simply be lucky in that regard, the decision made itself for me




If the Orks don't grab you, no big loss, and perhaps the gain of some background to put the rest of the 40K universe in perspective, fleshing it out a little more :)

Bregalad
28-05-2006, 11:41
Your starting post of this thread was a bit weird: Saying that you have played humans in black power armours, humans in blue power armours, humans in x-coloured power armours, warped humans in power armours ... therefore you were bored of ALL races?

Now you have clarified your opinion on the other races, I would suggest the following:
1.) Don't care what your mates play (they might have an alternative army) and just do Witch hunters or Tyranids. Or play the other humans missing in your 40k career, the Guard.
2.) Consider the cool FW models: Tau and Tyranids have some that are affordable even with student budget. I was drawn to Tau BECAUSE of the FW models.
3.) Wait for the new Eldar Codex.
4.) Read the several Black Library novels or Source Books on the 40k universe (also FW IA3 and IA4 and Xenology). Or try the PC games. They might get you interested in the background of Xeno races or even the Imperium (Faith&Blood plus Grey Knights for SoB and Inquisition, Warrior Coven for Eldar, ...).

ashc
28-05-2006, 12:18
Thanks for the reply Bregalad, I will try to answer your points in turn as i go.


Your starting post of this thread was a bit weird: Saying that you have played humans in black power armours, humans in blue power armours, humans in x-coloured power armours, warped humans in power armours ... therefore you were bored of ALL races?

Well what i meant was im done with the power armour but the other races arent really grabbing me; i didnt want to post my full list if reasons in the first post as i thought i would just immediately come across as a moaner...



1.) Don't care what your mates play (they might have an alternative army) and just do Witch hunters or Tyranids. Or play the other humans missing in your 40k career, the Guard.

Well when there are only 4 of you it seems to be a bit of a cop out for people to do the same races; At the mo i am leaning towards the guard though, so i will address that later in this post.



2.) Consider the cool FW models: Tau and Tyranids have some that are affordable even with student budget. I was drawn to Tau BECAUSE of the FW models.

Im a regular window shopper on the forgeworld site; Although alot of the stuff i wouldn't really consider, i really like the cadian conversion parts released recently.



3.) Wait for the new Eldar Codex.

As already stated, i really don't like the Eldar character; its just not for me.



4.) Read the several Black Library novels or Source Books on the 40k universe (also FW IA3 and IA4 and Xenology). Or try the PC games. They might get you interested in the background of Xeno races or even the Imperium (Faith&Blood plus Grey Knights for SoB and Inquisition, Warrior Coven for Eldar, ...).

Im actually already a big fan of the BL novels and sourcebooks, and read as many as i can. My all time favourite has to be the Eisenhorn trilogy, so maybe inquisition is the way to look for myself, with guard.

Ash

silverstu
28-05-2006, 12:34
Sounds like guard are your boys-variety, challenging- conversion potential and bags of character. You just need to find a list/army type that appeals- I'm not a guard player- I think they are realy cool but I'm limiting myself to nids and eldar[long time loves] for now. I'd read some background and look at the guard threads on this forum like tactica and lists[thats what I'm doing for inspiration for my nids] and then start picking stuff you like the look of/sound of. It was me I'd go for light enfantry with storm troopers and sentinels- thats what i like and I'm not too fussed about tanks. Oh and as mentioned above if you go guard you have those really cool forgeworld packs for the cadians too[I'm only just holding my resolve not to get into guard thanks to those little beauties].
Basically guard look like fun to collect, fun to play and I'd love to play against them so go for it, just start with what you like and let it grow from there.Hope this helps.
[oh and if you want to mixit up a little you could model you army on the old cityfight army- a ragtag of different units put together trhough the grinder of urban warfare- snipers, gangers etc.I'll stop before i convince myself to start a new army]

Karloth Valois
28-05-2006, 12:52
Orks, Tyranids, and Guard is where you should be looking. If Orks don't tickle your fancy then thats fair enough, nids are cool and you can have some pretty big varitation between nid armies.

Personally I'd love to do a Tallarn/Desert Guard army but the cost of all those metal models is what put me off. Yup, a mechanised Tallarn army.

Wraithbored
28-05-2006, 13:01
Ash I'd give Eldar a shot even though you said you don't liek the arrogance bit, try reading the 2nd ed Eldar dex it will grab you, also they are very chalenging and very unforgiving, converting them is a horror however.

Neknoh
28-05-2006, 13:03
Do a guard army and base it arround something in history, I for one am basing my guard on the Red Army at the Battle for Stalingrad, Commissars, Conscript Platoons, Ratling Snipers, next to no tanks and a sky high bodycount.

Is there nothing in 20th century War history that you find interesting?

Wraithbored
28-05-2006, 13:08
Do a guard army and base it arround something in history, I for one am basing my guard on the Red Army at the Battle for Stalingrad, Commissars, Conscript Platoons, Ratling Snipers, next to no tanks and a sky high bodycount.

Is there nothing in 20th century War history that you find interesting?
OT: this sounds interesting do you have any pictures of your glorious red army? :)

Revlid
28-05-2006, 13:19
Then do a race that hasn't been covered! Hrud, using LatD, Guard, or Dark Eldar rules, Demiurg using Marines (Chaos or otherwise) rules, Necromancers using LatD rules (Plague Zombies galore!), whatever!
There's so much variety in the Wh40k universe, you can't possibly have lost interest in everything...

EDIT: Of course, if you're interested in Traitor Guard and the Black Library you could always do a Blood Pact army. Somewhat different from Guard gameswise, and very interesting visually.

ashc
28-05-2006, 13:29
Ooh thanks for the replies; Im currently revising quantum mechanics so my replies are slightly sporadic today!

I think im certainly looking at guard in some form or variety; quite whether thats traitor or loyalist im not sure though! Revlid, Blood Pact are certainly one of those ideas on the traitor list; my idea for loyalist was an =][= guard force, sort of a bit 'spec ops' or possibly religious.

Neknoh, your theme sounds really cool and was an idea i had a while back after seeing enemy at the gates; My only problem with that is the prevalence of metals i would have to look at investing in :(

EDIT: oh, thought i may as well put what i think of the actual guard regiment models; my faves for conversions are of course the cadians (as a reminder of the colonial marines from Aliens, a personal favourite) but as set pieces i really like steel legion and valhallans (hence the WW2/Stalingrad sort of feel); like i said though, i dont think i could realistically afford an all-metal army.

Ash

Tastyfish
28-05-2006, 13:34
I'm going to suggest Tau, because I sort of suspect you've not really looked into the background that much but are more just generally aware of what it is they are supposedly like.

In short, the Tau have a fairly modern outlook both in warfare and diplomacy. They arn't above sending agents into enemy worlds to attempt to stir up rebelion so that when their armies arise they are met as saviours with open arms. Despite the fact it was their fault they were in uprising to begin with.

They aren't the real good guys of 40K, probably on a par with the Imperium really. They are just very pratical with an entire caste dedicated to PR. Its all misinformation, propaganda and covert opps stuff with the Tau as they can't really compete at the huge crusade or waagh level the other races can.

As for models, all in all the FW suits arn't that expensive if its really the battlesuits you arn't a fan of (and the Kroot stuff is just downright excellent). But if its something else you don't really like about them then fair enough, however the modern style of play and the 'cold war' dirty tricks background seem to go well together.

Neknoh
28-05-2006, 13:34
Actually, with proper painting and some Greenstuff, Valhallans can be avoided, leaving you with almost only plastic (yes, I will shamelessly base it on the Cadian Shocktrooper box, I know).

Wraithlord: As of yet, no, although, I have been starting to fiddle arround with collourschemes now (check my thread in the P&T), once I've decided, I will start buying models and building my army (500 pts list found in the Army List section).
I also have the basic outlines for how I want my army somewhere in the Tactics thread (I'd check from page 3 and back after threads started by me). I actually have plans on making a Hellhound sing the Russian national Anthem (also see the P&T section) once I include it in my army.

Zzarchov
28-05-2006, 14:25
If I might suggest something cheaper than a new army on a student budget.

Keep playing Power Armoured Space Knights.. BUT (this is a big one)

Rather than building a list to be effective, build an army that just looks cool, then TRY to win with it (" oh why oh why must a dev squad with 3 lascannons and a heavy bolter look so cool!").

Once you start playing by trying to win with the army your stuck with rather than the army you would ideally have, alot of the challenge comes back in.

You seem like a bright guy so no matter who you play, your not gonna end up to stupid to build a good list. You will end up with the right blend of Anti-tank and anti-horde weapons, the best wargear combos etc etc.

When you play with a sub par list it opens in SOO many more interesting tactical choices and dilemas. Do you move your tactical squad up and hit the enemy unit with a flamer and rapid fire bullets (or perhaps a charge) or hang back and fire the lascannon and a single bolter shot each? If you built your list to be effective this would never come up.

Just a thought.

dakkaBOOM
28-05-2006, 15:08
There's a guard theme that I've been playing with in my head for a while, and I since you seem interested in guard and the cities of death I figure you might enjoy it. The idea is creating a loyalist guerilla freedom fighter force based on Medusa V. Since the planet is being invaded by everyone and their mother, and Chaos is slaughtering thousands of innocent people, I would imagine the some people in areas cut off from the proper imperial forces would take up the fight for themselves. They would scavenge together what equipment they could, and lurk from building to building, using ambushes, booby traps, snipers, and portable heavy weapons against the enemy. If I had the time (currently painting an ork army and a salamanders army) and the money, the loyalist freedom fighters would be my next army.

XxboxX
28-05-2006, 15:36
Try to go out and find some good fluff on a bunch of different races,

hopefully it will inspire you,
thats how i started my army.


and if you're set on guard but don't like the prices of metal models at GW,

check eBay out for some deals.

Bregalad
28-05-2006, 15:52
If you have a hunch for Inquisition, you should really read the novel "Grey Knights", even if you don't care about Grey Knights. It is a fantastic tristed look at Inquisition and Assassins and SoB.

Remember that there are different kinds of Witch hunter Armies, some even without Sisters. You can take Adeptus Arbites =Security Troops (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110599138&orignav=300808) or religious fanatics ("Zealots" special rules, take Necromunda Redemptionists and Cawdor plus Sisters Repentia) without copying your mates army. Both have aspects of an IG army, but they are not cheap (metal hordes), although fluffy!

For IG have a look at the Death Corps of Krieg (will be expensive but cool) and Vostroyans plus help from Warmachine Khador (Widowmakers! Mechanics! http://privateerpress.com/WARMACHINE/default.php?x=gallery/khador).

ashc
28-05-2006, 16:30
If you have a hunch for Inquisition, you should really read the novel "Grey Knights", even if you don't care about Grey Knights. It is a fantastic tristed look at Inquisition and Assassins and SoB.

I read that a while back; Keep meaning to borrow Dark Adeptus off a mate but being at different uni's it just hasnt happened.



Remember that there are different kinds of Witch hunter Armies, some even without Sisters. You can take Adeptus Arbites =Security Troops (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110599138&orignav=300808) or religious fanatics ("Zealots" special rules, take Necromunda Redemptionists and Cawdor plus Sisters Repentia) without copying your mates army. Both have aspects of an IG army, but they are not cheap (metal hordes), although fluffy!

Yeah, having already looked at the inquisitorial options i would probably look at fielding WHs with only the generic =][= options along with inducted guard as an inquisitorial inducted regiment (well trained, good tech) as opposed to sisters.



For IG have a look at the Death Corps of Krieg (will be expensive but cool) and Vostroyans plus help from Warmachine Khador (Widowmakers! Mechanics! http://privateerpress.com/WARMACHINE/default.php?x=gallery/khador).

Death Corps are my option if i went metals (i have also seen the previews of the forgeworld stuff... hmm

Thanks!

Ash

fracas
29-05-2006, 01:47
i second suggestion for the Blood Pact

silverstu
29-05-2006, 09:47
if you like valhallians, deathcorps and steel legion but the price of metals is restrictive go for a city fight regiment of mixed platoons- then you can have your basics in the cheaper cadians and flesh it out with other more expensive options[forgeworld deathcorps are looking great]. Check out the old cityfight codex for info these types of formations- the fluff was that they are composed of the remnants of regiments which have been severely mauled in the intense fighting and have been pooled together to form a viable fighting force.