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Jocat
06-05-2013, 04:44
Page 66 – Special Rules, What Special Rules Does It Have.
Change “[...]the effects of multiple special rules[...]” to
“[...]the effects of different special rules[...]”Add “However,
unless otherwise stated, a model gains no additional benefit
from having the same special rule multiple times.” to the end of
the first paragraph.

Source:
https://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3180060a_WARHAMMER_RULEBOOK_v1.8_APRIL13.pdf


Doesn't say anything about the Frostheart's Blizzard Aura..
If you have 2 of them on a unit, is it -2S (to a min of 1)?

Oberon
06-05-2013, 04:54
That depends on the wording of blizzard aura. Is it something like:
"Any enemy unit that is in contact with one or more frostheart phoenix is -1str..." <-clearly does not stack
"Any enemy unit that is in contact with a frostheart phoenix is -1str..."<-might stack but probably not
"Any enemy unit that is in contact with the frostheart phoenix is -1str..."<-does stack, both frosthearts cause -1str on their own

Jocat
06-05-2013, 05:02
Exact quote:
"Any enemy unit in base contact with a Frostheart Phoenix has the ASL special rule and suffers a -1 to its Strength (to min of 1)."

Oberon
06-05-2013, 05:25
The key might be the "a" in the rule then. Or it could be the reason to arque about this. FAQ to change this to "contact with one or more" would be appreciated.

1 FP in contact=-1s
2 FP->"Do you have a FP in contact?" ->"yes"->"then -1 for you"
3 FP->"Do you have a FP in contact?" ->"yes"->"then -1 for you".

No matter how many you have in contact, you still have at least the one.

Jocat
06-05-2013, 06:16
What...?
10char

Kalandros
06-05-2013, 06:34
1 or more doesn't matter. Its -1S if you're in contact with a Frostheart Phoenix. Not cumulative.

Jocat
06-05-2013, 06:45
1 or more doesn't matter. Its -1S if you're in contact with a Frostheart Phoenix. Not cumulative.

Sure, but why is it not cumulative?

You're in contact with A Frostheart so this happens. What happens when you're contact with more than one? More than A, singular.

Why couldn't they just say "one or more"?

Orion_76
07-05-2013, 12:16
Not cumulative. For a special rule or spell or whatever to be cumulative it has to say it specifically. Do two Empire Hurricanums give a +2 to hit bonus?? No they don't, effects do not stack up (this is faqd, btw).

cptcosmic
07-05-2013, 12:46
only the ASL part of the aura does not stack. the special rule is blizzard aura and it is on the phoenix and not on the unit. So while it doesn't stack on the phoenix it doesn't say anything about the target unit. -1S is no special rule.


"one or more"
I dont get where the misinterpretation comes from but when a text says "you get benefit x if one or more requirements are fullfilled" then you only get the benefit ONCE.

Orion_76
08-05-2013, 14:15
only the ASL part of the aura does not stack. the special rule is blizzard aura and it is on the phoenix and not on the unit. So while it doesn't stack on the phoenix it doesn't say anything about the target unit. -1S is no special rule.


I dont get where the misinterpretation comes from but when a text says "you get benefit x if one or more requirements are fullfilled" then you only get the benefit ONCE.

Yes it is... and for this case its called Blizzard Aura.

Like I said; its like the Hurricanum special rule that gives OTHER units +1 to hit... +1 to hit is no special rule on its own, but inthe hurricanum's case it is and it has a name (which I cant remember right now). And it's a special rule that affects other units, just like the Blizzard Aura... and GW has faq'd that it doesn't stack. So sorry, but no -2 or -3 Strength for multiple frostheart phoenix.

Jim
09-05-2013, 10:24
Like I said; its like the Hurricanum special rule that gives OTHER units +1 to hit... +1 to hit is no special rule on its own, but inthe hurricanum's case it is and it has a name (which I cant remember right now). And it's a special rule that affects other units, just like the Blizzard Aura... and GW has faq'd that it doesn't stack. So sorry, but no -2 or -3 Strength for multiple frostheart phoenix.

GW did FAQ - but it was unecessary in my view as it was clear in the original text for the Hurricanum's rules that it did not stack as it used the phrase 'one or more'...This is absent from the Frostheart's rules which is why it is up for debate...

Jim

Orion_76
09-05-2013, 15:15
GW did FAQ - but it was unecessary in my view as it was clear in the original text for the Hurricanum's rules that it did not stack as it used the phrase 'one or more'...This is absent from the Frostheart's rules which is why it is up for debate...

Jim

ummm... true. I might just have to do a 180 on this... (GW style!!).

Hamasss
09-05-2013, 15:25
This is tricky one, it can easy be that is stacks and that it doesnt, if u remember Empire's +1to hit chariot, errata said it do not stack, and for Vampires Mortis engine aura +1 regen errata said it stack so, untill errata we cannot be sure ...

theunwantedbeing
09-05-2013, 15:35
It's not 100% clear.
As usual, GW has used less than helpful language in their special rules, especially as Hamasss rightly points out that GW don't seem to be consistent.

Any enemy unit in base contact with a Frostheart Phoenix....

It could easily mean "one or more", in which case it doesn't stack.
It could easily mean "each", in which case it does stack.

We'll really have to wait for an FAQ on the matter to be 100% sure.

Zoolander
09-05-2013, 15:40
It's not going to stack. They will likely FAQ that to say one or more...

ElBeaver
10-05-2013, 06:06
Would ASL stack (against ASF)?

RejjeN
10-05-2013, 07:37
ASL cancels out ASF, but the rules don't disappear so other instances of the rules (like Timewarp or Blizzard Aura) doesn't do anything if you already have both (Swordsmasters/White Lions)