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Azulthar
06-05-2013, 15:31
Space Wolves and Grey Knights leave the other Marine codices green with envy, Necrons rule the current meta with an iron fist, Codex Heldrake and Codex Vendetta are common sources of dismay, Tau are shaping up to be the Next Big Thing and even Tyranids are considered scary again.

So how have these (arguably) overpowered codices affected you and/or your gaming group? Do these armies dominate as per internet wisdom, or is the player to beat known for his unstoppable Ork army?


To go first:
The top player in our group does indeed field a Space Wolves army, though it was old Codex Tau that got closest to beating him. We also have a guy who stopped playing his Grey Knights because it felt like cheating at the time, even though he spent countless hours painting individual names and heraldry on his models.

IcedCrow
06-05-2013, 15:33
In a tournament environment this will change once or twice a year and is to be expected. Tournaments are the realm of power gaming.

In a campaign environment, strike up a group consensus to tone back on the powergaming.

Stacius
06-05-2013, 15:44
Ok, I play Dark Angels, Chaos marines and Daemons. I have an Eldar force waiting to be replayed too, my current group consists of a few staffers. Staffer 1 plays: orks, grey knights and Tau. Staffer 2: Tau, sisters Daemons, vanilla and wolves. Staffer 3: ultras, grey knights, guard. Staffer 4: nids, wolves, chaos marines, and Tau. Non staffers play bloods, guard, chaos marines, Templars grey knights, ultras and necrons.
All the grey knight players have the best win ratio. However, when fielding their other forces the ratio flips and they actually lose more games then they win. Most recent example is the ork staffer who was dominating with his knights, but since solely playing orks has lost 75% of his games.
My Dark angels have a 70-80% ratio of wins vs the other 'non power' dexes.
It definitely has affected our gaming, as the fluffy fun game goes out the window, and lists become vile excuses to table players. Lol still, I try and play fluffy and fun though.

stroller
06-05-2013, 15:59
It doesn't. None of my regular opponents have ever been to a tournament. We pick a system, a points limit, and take turns to set up a scenario, or randomly pick one. Everybody plays to win, but nobody plays to humiliate. Current king of the heap plays Eldar.

Chapters Unwritten
06-05-2013, 16:15
I don't really understand, as a Space Wolves player, how exactly the army is so impossibly powerful as people claim. My Space Wolves routinely get mushed by armies smart enough to out-range them. Most players admittedly do not do this; they run right up to me and give me an ideal targeting environment. When a player does not do this (assuming they take some appropriate step to neuter my Long Fangs -and some games, the board does that for them), I virtually always lose or tie. I don't follow convention but it's not exactly a gimped list, either; what am I doing wrong, that I am not crushing at tourneys day in and day out like folks claim?

Scribe of Khorne
06-05-2013, 16:21
Considering most armies are in that 24 inch kill zone range? I cant see how a Wolves list optimized could do poorly. It may not win always (necrons/gk are in the same range as wolves and beat them) but unless the list just isnt built in a soulless way and is fluffy, Wolves should still beat up on most.

Azulthar
06-05-2013, 16:27
It doesn't. None of my regular opponents have ever been to a tournament. We pick a system, a points limit, and take turns to set up a scenario, or randomly pick one. Everybody plays to win, but nobody plays to humiliate. Current king of the heap plays Eldar.
The concept of under- and overpowered codices isn't discussed? Someone playing Grey Knights or Necrons isn't considered to have an advantage right from the start?


I don't really understand, as a Space Wolves player, how exactly the army is so impossibly powerful as people claim. My Space Wolves routinely get mushed by armies smart enough to out-range them. Most players admittedly do not do this; they run right up to me and give me an ideal targeting environment. When a player does not do this (assuming they take some appropriate step to neuter my Long Fangs -and some games, the board does that for them), I virtually always lose or tie. I don't follow convention but it's not exactly a gimped list, either; what am I doing wrong, that I am not crushing at tourneys day in and day out like folks claim?
Well, most of the players of mentioned codices probably feel that way, at least to a certain degree. I'm personally pretty skeptical about applying tournament power-tiers to local meta, though seeing as how our top-player is playing Space Wolves and has kicked my ass many times, I'm afraid I can't back you on that specific point :p

stroller
06-05-2013, 16:33
The concept of under- and overpowered codices isn't discussed? Someone playing Grey Knights or Necrons isn't considered to have an advantage right from the start?

Noone has grey knights. I have necrons, and I have a mainly warrior/destroyer list. I don't have the new flying toys yet, which is where I perceive the main necron issue arises.

Mánagarmr
06-05-2013, 16:52
Well, most of the players of mentioned codices probably feel that way, at least to a certain degree. I'm personally pretty skeptical about applying tournament power-tiers to local meta, though seeing as how our top-player is playing Space Wolves and has kicked my ass many times, I'm afraid I can't back you on that specific point :p

You play Nurgle Chaos and Necrons- any Wolf player could probably stomp you using Priests alone.

Gossipmeng
06-05-2013, 16:53
Oh look, it's an "according to the internet..." thread.

You've listed 7 armies as being scary and "arguably" op. The remaining 7 include SoB (sorry these honestly don't count at this point) and Eldar + Orks which are now 2 editions old. This leaves the 4 remaining "UP" armies are: DE, DA, BA, and Daemons. I don't know about you guys, but I've seen dark eldar, daemons and ravenwing DA do quite well recently. On a side note: I don't necessarily think Tau are the next big thing. The sudden surge of popularity is really just many veteran players finally getting the update they had been waiting 6+ years for. Tau are most likely going to go the way of the dark eldar - very balanced with great performance, but will ultimately be slowly forgotten as the band wagon player base jumps on to eldar and whatever is after that :)

The moral of the story is: 1. there are no overpowered codices, there are only certain units which get abused by guys who actually know what they are doing. 2. There are a few older codices still in use that will be getting updated in the next year or so to bring them in line with 6th edition.

Chem-Dog
06-05-2013, 17:24
I seldom encounter the kind of thing that most frequently draws complaint and I vary rarely employ those kinds of trick myself. When I do encounter them, it's rarely as a cataclysmic as accounts one reads of.

murgel2006
06-05-2013, 17:56
Currently the most successful army around me is either a Slaneesh Daemons army or a Tyranid army. They just breed to fast to kill 'em all.
(I guess it is obvious we are campaigning here)

Sir Didymus
06-05-2013, 18:01
I make my armies based on models and a conceptual strategy regardless of rules. My lists are widely regarded as soft, but they often put up a fight, due to clever tactics and/or lucky dice rolls, or just an opponents inability to deal with a non-internet list.

Current project is a Tau / Dark Eldar alliance - and you won't find much inspiration for such in the warseer army list section ;)

Venkh
06-05-2013, 18:11
I started a necron army 6 months ago

It was definitely like playing the game on easy mode, I went from winning about half of my games to winning all of them by a huge margin. I wasn't even using all of the tricks.

I am under absolutely no illusions about my skill level, there is a difference between winning with skill or luck and winning because your army is just designed to stronger than others.

I'm back to using eldar now and my games are much more exciting and competitive.

The problem with playing one of these armies or lists is that you are under even more pressure to win, because if you lose it can only be through poor play or bad luck and no real satisfaction in victory

Azulthar
06-05-2013, 18:35
You play Nurgle Chaos and Necrons- any Wolf player could probably stomp you using Priests alone.
True, but I also play Tyranids and have diversified my Chaos quite a bit. Besides, the Space Wolves player didn't become the top player just by defeating my armies :D

But it could be totally different in other groups. That's the point of this thread, to see how much "common internet wisdom" applies to your group.

Ace Rimmer
06-05-2013, 19:46
Well, I've only played 4 games with my necrons, I used the doom scythe once and it didn't do a great deal, I prefer to run a wall of spyders myself. But they tabled Grey Knights in every game.
I've played the same CSM army (Rev's Noise Marines) after the new codex that I played before, although I used a heldrake in the last game just to see what the fuss was about. It's just a really mobile Doom Siren that can vector strike (if you remember it can do so). a couple of close results, but beat Grey Knights & Nids pre-update and Grey Knights & Crimson Fists post update.
Eldar - Undefeated vs Grey Knights until the weekend before last when I lost due to being a retard and deploying 10 rangers within 30" of a double incinerator interceptor combat squad and losing both squad and first blood without even touching my dice.

Bonzai
06-05-2013, 22:30
With Tau coming, I've swapped out a Trygon Prime for a Tyranofex in my Nid list. Figure the 2+ save and torrent flamer will do more vs Tau shooting. Other than that, not doing anything different.

Swordsman
06-05-2013, 22:41
In my gaming group, Necrons and Grey Knights are the current meta kings. But, as that seems to be the way it is in any competitive gaming circle/tourney, so it's not too surprising.

Gaargod
06-05-2013, 22:54
Wait, Tyranids being scary? As in, on the table and not just in the fluff?

With Cruddace's book?

Have I missed something?

El_Machinae
06-05-2013, 23:00
Ditto Gaargod.

Swordsman
06-05-2013, 23:06
Have I missed something?

The edition change, it would seem. Via new psychic powers - amongst other changes - Tyranids have some of the nastiest monstrous-creatures in the game now.

Two of the top 16 at Adepticon were Tyranids.

Dwarf Longbeard
06-05-2013, 23:11
I've got to admit I've been massively put off my Tyranids after a game against Dark Angels.
He literally just stood behind an Aegis line the entire game and shot me to pieces :( certainly didn't see the scary aspect of them which is a hsame as they look great

Synthetic Biologist
06-05-2013, 23:22
I've got to admit I've been massively put off my Tyranids after a game against Dark Angels.
He literally just stood behind an Aegis line the entire game and shot me to pieces :( certainly didn't see the scary aspect of them which is a hsame as they look great

Consider dropping Doom on him? Given that's clustering his entire army behind one aegis.

Dwarf Longbeard
06-05-2013, 23:28
Consider dropping Doom on him? Given that's clustering his entire army behind one aegis.

I did think about it but he was so bunched up at the back of the board I was more worried about it scattering off the table. The Tyranid codex definetly needs a bit of tweeking.
I must admit I did the dim thing of taking a pair of Carnifexes

Bonzai
06-05-2013, 23:43
I've got to admit I've been massively put off my Tyranids after a game against Dark Angels.
He literally just stood behind an Aegis line the entire game and shot me to pieces :( certainly didn't see the scary aspect of them which is a hsame as they look great

What is he shooting with?

Dwarf Longbeard
06-05-2013, 23:46
He had 2 vindicators, 3 tactical squads, a company master shooting the quad gun, a dreadnought with lascannon a contemptor with two assault cannons and cyclone launcher two squads of terminators with cyclones, a nephilim and a squad of scouts - it was a 3000 point game

MajorWesJanson
07-05-2013, 03:46
Wait, Tyranids being scary? As in, on the table and not just in the fluff?

With Cruddace's book?

Have I missed something?

Nid psychic circus is a nasty list locally. Hey, 20+ rolls on the Biomancy chart! Iron Arm makes MCs and even Zoanthropes really hard to hurt, and Enfeeble stacked means termigants with devourers can ID multi-wound stuff.

Locally, the Helldrake is also considered such a danger that some people have avoided building certain lists for league games because a Baledrake would destroy it.

LordofShadows
07-05-2013, 09:32
I play grey knights tzeench chaos marines imperial fists and dark eldar. I have found i actually struggle with my grey knights and I find that the warp quake power does absolutely nothing most of the time