PDA

View Full Version : 2400 Dark Elf - Light Comp.



TDK88
08-05-2013, 19:01
Lords: 570
Sorceress
Level 4, Lore of Shadow, Sac Dagger


Sorceress
Level 4, Lore of Death Dispel Scroll


Heroes: 219
Master (219)
Battle Standard Bearer, Dark Pegasus, Pendent of K, Dragon Helm, Potion of Foolhardiness, Heavy Armor, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance


Core: 600
40 Dark Elf Spearmen (270)
Full Command, Leadership Banner


5 Dark Riders (110)
Repeater Crossbow


5 Dark Riders (110)
Repeater Crossbow


5 Dark Riders (110)
Repeater Crossbow


Special: 540
10 Shades (170)
Additional Hand Weapon


10 Shades (170)
Additional Hand Weapon


Cold One Chariot


Cold One Chariot


Other: 470
Assassin, Rending Star (120)


Assassin, Rending Star (120)


Assassin, Rending Star (120)


5 Harpies


5 Harpies

3/4 Flyers.
79/80 Shots.
Total: 2399

I have a light comp event on the horizon and fancy getting the Dark Elves out. Is this a bit dirty?

a18no
08-05-2013, 20:49
Since your spears will work as dagger fodder, how do you plan to kill armies with 2-3 hordes (like a orc army with 40 big'uns savage orc with 40 black orcs), or a well armored army like WoC??

You have nothing in your armies except flankers and anowers... What is your plan?? You understand that if I face an army like yours, the only thing I have to do is to bring a good fighting unit against your big block of spears. You have almost 800 pts in this unit..

Remove one shades, one rider unit, 1 harpie and 2 assassins. And bring more body to the field..

TDK88
08-05-2013, 22:11
Mindrazor the spears? Come at me Orcs.

WoC is fine to stall stuff with all my chaff, while I can death snipe points off.

Also, I just kill the chaff and pick up the consistent 14-6's.

You're looking down the barrel of two Level 4's with access to Pit of Shades and Purple Sun, and lots of redirectors. Not that scared of blocks to be honest

TDK88
10-05-2013, 17:12
Anyone else?

Blitzgundam
11-05-2013, 05:37
Mindrazor the spears? Come at me Orcs.

WoC is fine to stall stuff with all my chaff, while I can death snipe points off.

Also, I just kill the chaff and pick up the consistent 14-6's.

You're looking down the barrel of two Level 4's with access to Pit of Shades and Purple Sun, and lots of redirectors. Not that scared of blocks to be honest

Umm....that's assuming you get Pit and Purple Sun. Let's also say you don't get Mindrazor, or get Mindrazor off.

What about Beastmen with their own cadre ? Or any army that's as fast, or faster than you? How about being flanked?

Cannons? War Machines?

You mentioned "looking down the barrel of two level 4's". Yes....two Lords totally incapable of fighting. How about a WoC Daemon Price flies in, issues a challenge? Mindrazor or no, that's a tough fight even if you refuse. I hope you don't plan on using the BSB as the muscle? Sure he can fly around, but he's still T4. A clean leadbelcher volley or even a large number of handgunners will wipe him out. Tomb King Archers would be worse! Str3 bows! You only get a 1-3 ward save! Not to mention, if you get too far ahead your are out of BSB range.

I understand one Assassin to protect your Sorceress in the aforementioned challenge scenarios, but 3? Not to mention, the only unit I see is the Spearmen....both sorcerers, all three assassins in that one unit? What about reverse Pit on you? You could easily drop 2 Assassins, and one unit of Dark Riders for 2 Bolt Throwers and maybe some Corsairs. You would then have two bolt throwers to cover the flanks of your spearmen, and maybe another decent sized rank and file block.

TDK88
11-05-2013, 20:48
Umm....that's assuming you get Pit and Purple Sun. Let's also say you don't get Mindrazor, or get Mindrazor off.

What about Beastmen with their own cadre ? Or any army that's as fast, or faster than you? How about being flanked?

Cannons? War Machines?

You mentioned "looking down the barrel of two level 4's". Yes....two Lords totally incapable of fighting. How about a WoC Daemon Price flies in, issues a challenge? Mindrazor or no, that's a tough fight even if you refuse. I hope you don't plan on using the BSB as the muscle? Sure he can fly around, but he's still T4. A clean leadbelcher volley or even a large number of handgunners will wipe him out. Tomb King Archers would be worse! Str3 bows! You only get a 1-3 ward save! Not to mention, if you get too far ahead your are out of BSB range.

I understand one Assassin to protect your Sorceress in the aforementioned challenge scenarios, but 3? Not to mention, the only unit I see is the Spearmen....both sorcerers, all three assassins in that one unit? What about reverse Pit on you? You could easily drop 2 Assassins, and one unit of Dark Riders for 2 Bolt Throwers and maybe some Corsairs. You would then have two bolt throwers to cover the flanks of your spearmen, and maybe another decent sized rank and file block.

Everything you've stated assumes the worst case scenarios. With Four dice to roll up my spells I'm going to hit what I want most of the time. Its statistics.

War Machines are easy to eat with how fast this army is. Shades can deal. Dark Riders can deal. Harpies can deal.

The shades I have charged into Dwarf Cannon, chopped it up, over ran into the Organ gun turn 1. So, its not that bad.

Assassins would be 1 each in the shades and 1 in the 40 block. Demon prince has to assume he can survive Death Snipes, Shades and Assassins. The one thing I DO think about doing is dropping an Assassin for Manbane on the other two.

This is for a 20-0 score tournament. This army doesn't aim to table someone, It aims to get above average scores and maybe 1 big win to podium. Thats tournament play.

naloth
12-05-2013, 03:14
War Machines are easy to eat with how fast this army is. Shades can deal. Dark Riders can deal. Harpies can deal.I'd be concerned about running up against most Empire, Bretonnian, and WoC armies. You don't have the bodies to absorb punishment and you're relying heavily on decent magic rolls before their armies can steamroll what little you have. There's very little to deal with high Toughness or armor either. You also seem to be pretty fortunate in that you're not facing a Chaos Dwarf army either.


The shades I have charged into Dwarf Cannon, chopped it up, over ran into the Organ gun turn 1. So, its not that bad.Sounds the the Dwarf player made several critical mistakes. First off, he allowed you to deploy close to his war machines (silly error), then made the cannon rather than the organ gun on the outside, and last set them in a pattern to overrun and die in sequence. Worse, he had to have a turn prior for you to get the charge (scouts can't charge if they get the first turn) so that unit of Shades should have been shredded. Really if you're going up against opponents like this, most any army will do well.



Assassins would be 1 each in the shades and 1 in the 40 block. Demon prince has to assume he can survive Death Snipes, Shades and Assassins. The one thing I DO think about doing is dropping an Assassin for Manbane on the other two.

Manbane and extra attacks work much better against most things, especially since this army would need the CC support.

Blitzgundam
12-05-2013, 05:41
Everything you've stated assumes the worst case scenarios. With Four dice to roll up my spells I'm going to hit what I want most of the time. Its statistics.

War Machines are easy to eat with how fast this army is. Shades can deal. Dark Riders can deal. Harpies can deal.

The shades I have charged into Dwarf Cannon, chopped it up, over ran into the Organ gun turn 1. So, its not that bad.

Assassins would be 1 each in the shades and 1 in the 40 block. Demon prince has to assume he can survive Death Snipes, Shades and Assassins. The one thing I DO think about doing is dropping an Assassin for Manbane on the other two.

This is for a 20-0 score tournament. This army doesn't aim to table someone, It aims to get above average scores and maybe 1 big win to podium. Thats tournament play.

And as stated before, you are relying on good magic roles. That's just bad strategy. Everything you have that can "deal" with warmachines cannot DEAL with rank and file. Let alone T4 rank and file. Even on a multi charged unit of Orges, they would tear each of those apart, before factoring in banners and whatnot.

It's your army, but Assassins in Shade units don't seem that scary. Assassin's are meant to snipe characters correct? Wouldn't they be better off in rank and file, awaiting some poor fool to attempt to challenge out a BSB or Sorceress?

You seem supremely confidant in your army. Why post here then? Everytime someone attempts to give advice, you shoot it down as if their opinion didn't matter or they knew less than you did.......

Just MY opinion. We are all trying to help.

Kain187
13-05-2013, 04:43
Assasins with rending stars and no manbane is kind of worthless. I would add manbane to two of them drop a unit of shades, a unit of harpies and an assasin for 20-30 witches. As to everyone's comments on a dp that will be the least of his worries with manbane. He will be 3 str7 shooting his assasins hitting on 2s wounding on 2s. I think the witches would add a punch especially for your games with mindrazor. The witches will add some punch to your list and can shred other big blocks because they will go first.

Blitzgundam
13-05-2013, 06:31
Assasins with rending stars and no manbane is kind of worthless. I would add manbane to two of them drop a unit of shades, a unit of harpies and an assasin for 20-30 witches. As to everyone's comments on a dp that will be the least of his worries with manbane. He will be 3 str7 shooting his assasins hitting on 2s wounding on 2s. I think the witches would add a punch especially for your games with mindrazor. The witches will add some punch to your list and can shred other big blocks because they will go first.

Not too be a rules shark, but he won't be hitting on 2's. Multiple Shot at the very least is one penalty that bring him to 3's, unless I missed something. That's not even taking into account over half range.

If you are refering to the rule associated with manbane, is clearly states the limit is Strength 6. The DP is T5...that's also 3's. While I concede that is really good...that's 3 shots. All 3 need to hit, wound, and armor/Ward fails. On top of that the DP still has 1 wound left.

I do agree that Witches would be very beneficial, but then one runs into the possibility of adding the Cauldron, which benefits not only the witches, but the assassins as well.

Mannfred
13-05-2013, 11:56
....yesh ur missing smthing, Assassins are bs9 bring on all ur modifiers :)

Mannfred
13-05-2013, 11:58
Played a game vs DP of Nurgle with a +1 save, 2+ ward vs flaming, and soul feeder, dual assassins with manbane chomped it to bits in 1 turn :)

TDK88
13-05-2013, 14:56
I started a massive essay-like post on what I do and what the list is capable of and why, then decided against it. Most people who are negatively commenting obviously have never fought against or with an avoidance list. The movement phase is a phase where this list wins. Big blocks of units are hard to manoeuvre, using my chaff I can conga line redirect, march block and everything else using impassable terrain and the like, fighting in forests to take off steadfast. This is reinforced by nobody talking about the chariots. They have been awful for me. They're in the list to impact hit off what I whittle down with shooting, so far they amble along and die - Commenters here just see a combat unit so don't touch it.

People who say yeah but you might not get x spell/cast y spell fail to see that there is an art to magic phase. People are going to always try and stop Mindrazor, pit or purple sun - this usually allows withering through which shades love or miasma to slow the movement and so on and so forth. Most people can't see that this is designed for 5 games of Warhammer in which the result is many constant wins on the 20-0 system (aiming for 14+ per game)

as for the list - I'm adding Manbane. I also am thinking about the lore of metal.

naloth
13-05-2013, 19:32
as for the list - I'm adding Manbane. I also am thinking about the lore of metal.
Those would be good additions.

It sounds like you fight quite a few opponents that are unaccustomed to your style of play. I've had some luck doing something similar with WE - opponents just didn't know what I was going to try - but really it's relying on opponent mistakes rather than the strength of the army. Your Dwarf example was a good hint. There's no reason to expose artillery like than when the opponent has scouts and fast cavalry roaming around. Likewise things can go horribly wrong if you encounter a Hellheart, a Slann (negate 6's and w/cupped hands), a heavily armored force, and something with more shooting especially if it's an anti-magic Dwarf force.

Moving away from a purely "I try to edge someone out by a few points" game you'll have serious issues trying Watchtower, B&G, or "I need double VPs to win" type missions. Most of the tourneys I play generally have either objectives or require a significant VP margin so avoiding and winning by a few VPs doesn't cut it.

In contrast I recently posted a new HE army. It's not as fast, relies on multiple low value spells instead of a few big flashy ones, has a couple of combat blocks, some fighty characters, and a fair amount of shooting. Seeing your army, I would be happy to shoot it out w/magic and shooting if you didn't want to engage - my 2 RBT (12 shots, 4+ hit at up to 48" range w/S4 -2 save) and the sisters (6 flaming S4, -2, BS5) would do a number of on your cavalry. The seaguard block that can put out 17-20 shots and outfight most of your units. So while this army puts out closer to 39 shots - they tend to be more accurate, longer ranged, and many are S4 -2 sv. You can also try your hand at "feigned flights" from my flying chariot, silverhelms, and phoenix but that's a pretty big risk if you're moving within 12" to shoot first. The mages have at least 3 magic missiles (fireball, shem's, soul quench) to eliminate chaff/scouts, plus Spirit Leech to snipe, and the potential for a few "must stop" spells like Fiery Convocation, Tempest, Vaul's Unmaking, and Walk Between Worlds (yea, putting a combat unit 20" closer would ruin your avoidance plans pretty quickly) before I get to where I use support spells. Being Elves, I worry less about Initiative check death spells so aside from Mindrazor (which requires engaging my tougher blocks) I'm guessing magic will probably work for me. Sure you can pretty easily kill a few soft targets (RBT, sisters, white lions, skycutter) but it's going to be a challenge engaging the Silverhelms, Phoenix Guard, or Spearmen where all the points and banners are located without giving up an equal or greater amount of soft target points. It's not the strongest HE army that you can build with the new army book (mostly I'm trying out a bunch of new things) but it seems like the strategy you're relying on would not work well.

Kain187
14-05-2013, 04:44
Not too be a rules shark, but he won't be hitting on 2's. Multiple Shot at the very least is one penalty that bring him to 3's, unless I missed something. That's not even taking into account over half range.

If you are refering to the rule associated with manbane, is clearly states the limit is Strength 6. The DP is T5...that's also 3's. While I concede that is really good...that's 3 shots. All 3 need to hit, wound, and armor/Ward fails. On top of that the DP still has 1 wound left.

I do agree that Witches would be very beneficial, but then one runs into the possibility of adding the Cauldron, which benefits not only the witches, but the assassins as well.
As the poster below you stated assasing are bs 9 so no modifiers bring him to above 2s on hitting. Also manbane brings the str to 6 but stars are +1 str bringing to 7. You can check the DE errata to confirm if you like. With 2 assassins that would be 6 shots. They are also quick to fire so after you bring the dp down to 1 wound then he will have to charge something which brings him to a stand and shoot hitting on 2s wounding on 2s.

Yamagawa
14-05-2013, 09:22
As the poster below you stated assasing are bs 9 so no modifiers bring him to above 2s on hitting. Also manbane brings the str to 6 but stars are +1 str bringing to 7. You can check the DE errata to confirm if you like. With 2 assassins that would be 6 shots. They are also quick to fire so after you bring the dp down to 1 wound then he will have to charge something which brings him to a stand and shoot hitting on 2s wounding on 2s.

Nitpicking! It does indeed say in the FAQ that you can select which effect comes first (manbane and +1S stars that is), but it also states that the player whos turn it is, chooses. Doubt most non-DE players know about this (though to be fair this should be mentioned..) but just wanted to point out that for stand and shooting-part, it would technically be S6 and not S7 ^^ Wounding on 3s is good enough but its a fairly huge diffrence when it comes to calculating the death or life of a DP charging teeth-first at you.

Mannfred
14-05-2013, 09:42
Actually just honestly? How do u think this list will fare against the High Elf death star? Which includes the "dat banner" and the "walk between worlds" spell...

Mannfred
14-05-2013, 09:45
And your contemplation of lore of metal leads me to think final transmutation...