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View Full Version : Can you 'use' a Power Dice if you can't meet the casting value?



warplock
09-05-2013, 07:00
Let's say I have 1 PD left, and my L2 wizard can only has a 10+ spell left to cast. Can I 'use' the PD in an attempt to cast the spell, even though it's impossible for me to cast it? Thinking of Power of Darkness here - any 'unused' PD from PoD at the end of the phase cause a S4 hit against the caster.

Vipoid
09-05-2013, 09:43
Let's say I have 1 PD left, and my L2 wizard can only has a 10+ spell left to cast. Can I 'use' the PD in an attempt to cast the spell, even though it's impossible for me to cast it?

I don't see why not.

As far as I'm aware, there's no rule saying you must roll enough dice to be able to meet the minimum casting value for a spell.

ZigZagMan
09-05-2013, 11:41
I believe GW answered no to this question. Starting you at least need a chance to cast the spell. So 2 dice needed, even if its only ult force that can cast it. Maybe its in an early faq.

Vipoid
09-05-2013, 12:31
I believe GW answered no to this question. Starting you at least need a chance to cast the spell. So 2 dice needed, even if its only ult force that can cast it. Maybe its in an early faq.

Can you quote the appropriate faq? :p

theunwantedbeing
09-05-2013, 12:46
This (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3180064a_Dark_Elves_v1.5_APRIL13.pdf) seems to be the closest thing Vipoid.
It's the Dark elf FAQ referencing power of darkness dice(which are still power dice).

There doesn't appear to be a general rule in the main FAQ (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3180060a_WARHAMMER_RULEBOOK_v1.8_APRIL13.pdf) though.

Vipoid
09-05-2013, 12:53
This (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3180064a_Dark_Elves_v1.5_APRIL13.pdf) seems to be the closest thing Vipoid.
It's the Dark elf FAQ referencing power of darkness dice(which are still power dice).


Ah. Well, that should answer the OP's question.



There doesn't appear to be a general rule in the main FAQ (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3180060a_WARHAMMER_RULEBOOK_v1.8_APRIL13.pdf) though.

Probably not the sort of thing that comes up, outside of Dark Elves.

I mean, a failed spell doesn't trigger your lore attribute and can't use up your opponent's dispel dice, so there probably isn't a reason for most armies to ever attempt it. :p

yeknoMehT
09-05-2013, 12:54
So sounds like a resounding yes to the question for PoD. Which makes the downside quite limited to the spell...

warplock
09-05-2013, 13:56
Thanks for the responses, I see now that it's right there in the FAQ, good to know.

sholcomb
10-05-2013, 06:56
Ya, GW wasn't thinking when they came up with that "weakness". I have never once seen this rule come into effect.

yarrickson
10-05-2013, 10:04
Only seen the downside come into effect once. And that was only because I used the cube of darkness to end the magic phase.

Mr_Rose
10-05-2013, 14:10
If I were redoing Dark Magic right now, I'd make it so the caster s the only one who can use the dice, and give the spell the unique property of still working even if you fail to cast it due to the "not enough power" rule.
That way you end up with a sorceress who just generated exploding power dice who also can't cast again this turn…

sulla
10-05-2013, 15:58
Ya, GW wasn't thinking when they came up with that "weakness". I have never once seen this rule come into effect.Turn the caster into a frog... happens quite a lot in SoM games.

Valden
10-05-2013, 16:21
Let's say I have 1 PD left, and my L2 wizard can only has a 10+ spell left to cast. Can I 'use' the PD in an attempt to cast the spell, even though it's impossible for me to cast it? Thinking of Power of Darkness here - any 'unused' PD from PoD at the end of the phase cause a S4 hit against the caster.

If what you propose could be done, then Power of Darkness would have no downside. It doesn't sound right to me, you can't just "throw away" a dice to avoid taking damage from it :P

warplock
10-05-2013, 16:25
If what you propose could be done, then Power of Darkness would have no downside. It doesn't sound right to me, you can't just "throw away" a dice to avoid taking damage from it :P

Except of course, as per the FAQ, you can :p

yeknoMehT
10-05-2013, 16:26
Unfortunately it comes from the old edition where you were limited to a smaller number of dice per spell - if you ran out of spells you would struggle with this. There were also, I believe, miscast results that prevented you from casting further as well. Expect a more '8th edition' version of this if they bother to redo the army book this edition.

Count Zero
10-05-2013, 16:30
Perhaps it was written with the sacrificial dagger in mind?

dementian
10-05-2013, 18:07
For the people that didn't want to follow the link above the relevant FAQ from the DE Errata/FAQ:

"Q: Can a Dark Elf Sorceress use a dice from the Power of
Darkness spell to cast a spell where she cannot possibly succeed, to
avoid damage from the leftover dice when the phase ends? (p63)
A: Yes."

vorthrax
10-05-2013, 18:33
The downside to PoD is no more uncommon than a miscast which results in the magic phase ending for any other spell casting attempt. If the Magic phase ends and PoD dice remain without having been used in a casting attempt, the owner of the PoD dice, take a S4 hit for each unused PoD dice. A smart Dark Elf player uses their PoD dice as soon as possible to avoid this. However, it can happen (albeit extremely rarely) that you roll irresistible on the PoD cast attempt, resulting in a miscast that ends the magic phase (through loss of PD or just ending it), and the S4 hits kill the caster. It's happened to me once or twice.

yeknoMehT
10-05-2013, 18:41
There's another FAQ which says that you don't take hits if you lose the dice to a miscast, and I can't recall exactly, but are there any miscast results that end the phase? I suppose if you got a power drain and lost all your spells you might suffer hits, but otherwise it's pretty unlikely...

Blkc57
10-05-2013, 19:08
There's another FAQ which says that you don't take hits if you lose the dice to a miscast, and I can't recall exactly, but are there any miscast results that end the phase? I suppose if you got a power drain and lost all your spells you might suffer hits, but otherwise it's pretty unlikely...

The 10,11,12 result is lose magic levels the magic phase ends for that caster and no PD are lost. Happened in a game with a friend, he rolled box cars on 2d6 for his casting of Power of Darkness, you have to resolve thwe spell before the miscast so he got 3 extra power dice, then rolled the 10 result and had his magic phase end killing the sorceress with the str 4 hits, to quote him after the game "WORST. SORCERESS. EVER."

Danny76
14-05-2013, 13:16
Well also there are loads of times you may have dice leftover.
Maybe you only have 1 wizard left and 9 dice. Roll two at a spell but fail to cast it. That wizard can't cast another spell that turn. So 7 leftover..

yeknoMehT
14-05-2013, 13:49
Well also there are loads of times you may have dice leftover.
Maybe you only have 1 wizard left and 9 dice. Roll two at a spell but fail to cast it. That wizard can't cast another spell that turn. So 7 leftover..

Yes, but only a fool would cast Power of Darkness in those situations. Not saying it wouldn't happen, mind, but anyone who does it probably deserves it!

decker_cky
14-05-2013, 14:50
The 10,11,12 result is lose magic levels the magic phase ends for that caster and no PD are lost. Happened in a game with a friend, he rolled box cars on 2d6 for his casting of Power of Darkness, you have to resolve thwe spell before the miscast so he got 3 extra power dice, then rolled the 10 result and had his magic phase end killing the sorceress with the str 4 hits, to quote him after the game "WORST. SORCERESS. EVER."

That's what he gets for using 2 dice on power of darkness.

Danny76
14-05-2013, 16:58
Yes, but only a fool would cast Power of Darkness in those situations. Not saying it wouldn't happen, mind, but anyone who does it probably deserves it!

Oh yeah I'm sure it would be. I don't play them so don't know how it all works. Just could happen accidently I guess, if someone threw 4 dice at a spell and just got 1's and 2's they'd probably fail without thinking it ever possible..