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Bigdak
12-05-2013, 10:52
Hi,

I'm having trouble understanding exactly how flyers really fit with the night goblin fanatics special rule.

The army books sais that flyers have to land at 8'' for fanatics to be realeased. The issue is, imagine a flyer move over a horde of Night Goblins and once it's over it ,it reaches the 8'' of another unit with fanatics. The flyer can't land and therefore fanatics aren't realeased ?

Thank you for the help.

FatTrucker
12-05-2013, 11:38
As far as I'm aware re flyers and Night Goblins the flyer is deemed to have landed whenever it reaches the 8" activation point, so if you activate one lot at 8" and then the remainder of your move takes you 8" away from another lot then the Fanatics will be released from both units.
Flyers in 8th just seem to represent a fast flying move between points with the unit 'landing' in between moves.

Basically in all cases any enemy model or unit of any type that moves within 8" of a unit of Nightgoblins at any time will cause the fanatics to come out.

Bigdak
12-05-2013, 17:44
170729
Ok, so I think I need this "picture" to explain more my issue. In this picture the flyer moves over a unit and therefore cannot land on it (I mean it doesn't make sense for a flyer to land in an enemy unit). So in this case would you release fanatics ?

A similar issue is with the new FAQ who sais that when using the spell Hand of Gork you have to stop your unit 8"" away from enemies, release fanatics. What if in the same situation you cannot stop the unit because of impassible terrain etc ..

If anyone can help out or anyone shares the same doubts regarding the FAQ your always free to leave a comment.

Wharfrat1979
12-05-2013, 19:40
Great questions I have no answers but I am upset about the hand of Gork faq. It sucks that I can't get within eight to release. Plus now one has to be careful not to land on there own fanatics using this tactic.

Bigdak
12-05-2013, 20:30
I wrote a mail to the FAQ center (if you can say it that way). I'm practically sure they wont care but it's a ridiculous FAQ. It isn't even logical because technicaly it isn't a "move". You just take a model from the front rank and place him somewhere on the battlefleild. How does such a model stop to release fanatics ? What is even his trajectory ? Does the spell give the unit a special magical "fly" move ? It was very clear before now it's just confusing.
According to their point of view when a vampire casts Raise Dead the zombies should apear at 8"" and only then "move" to the decided location. Just bizzare right ?

.. Worst FAQ ever seen.

Wharfrat1979
12-05-2013, 23:22
According to the fluff the unit is picked up by a giant hand and moved to the new location. It would seem by this FAQ that the fanatics are either pushed out (air assault style) when they are 8 inches away executing an amazing combat roll Undamaged from the fall and continuing on as normal. Or Gork is very aware of the need to stop eight inches away to release fanatics gently setting the unit down lets the fanatics out and picking them up to carry on. It would seem that if eight inches lies in impassable terrain then the fanatics would auto die

Wharfrat1979
12-05-2013, 23:23
Don't the high elves have a new spell that moves them 20 inches in the magic phase. Do they stop in the middle of that as well

Bigdak
13-05-2013, 08:11
And if your unit has to "land" ontop of a friendly unit then it has to release it's fanatics from inside your unit wounding your allies. If anyone can write to the FAQ, maybe if there are many mails about the same issue they will rectify their mistake.

theunwantedbeing
13-05-2013, 08:56
Either you can't land....so can't move there, or you can land in an opposing unit and both take hits.

There is no official answer yet.

ARabidNun
13-05-2013, 10:15
Don't the high elves have a new spell that moves them 20 inches in the magic phase. Do they stop in the middle of that as well
Technically any item, magic or other that says in its description "moves target unit" then yes, the unit has to stop at the 8" mark and resolve the fanatic release. I believe this issue was raised before and even clarified by someone at GW but sadly I can not redirect or quote the response.

For the example in question I would agree that it is sneaky, but reasonable. The flying unit "hovers" over the orc unit at the 8" mark, so technically both units occupy the same space for an instant. Resolve the fanatics hitting both units, then if the flyer is still alive it may complete its move, take a panic check, etc... same with the orc unit, but if for some reason both units finish the phase touching, displace one "the flyer for example" to the 1" point. This feels to me more realistic and fair for both players, even if it will be annoying.

My question is, given the image, I assume there isn't enough space between the 2 units for the flyer, and why doesn't the flyer simply pass on the other side of the orc unit (assuming it is not a horde, up to 7 models wide) being less than 8" if the goblin and orc unit are 1" apart?

Bigdak
13-05-2013, 10:58
Well the situation is, the flyer lets say Chimera want's to go behind my orc unit to use his breath attack. The player who controlls the Chimera is going to do his move without worriing about fanatics (lets say he thinks there aren't any fanatics). This is the situation. Do I have to release my fanatics letting him know I have some. For me I cannot accept the flyer to land inside my unit (that just makes no sense).
I don't know if this answers your question but the player controlling the Chimera goes where ever he wants to.

I beleive that if the flyer can't land, then fanatics are not released. Only when the flyer can land, he does so and fanatics are released. For me this is the best solution.

Bigdak
13-05-2013, 11:05
Either you can't land....so can't move there, or you can land in an opposing unit and both take hits.

This is kind of interessting. Since flyers have to land for fanatics to be released could this mean that if the flyer cannot land, he cannot choose that trajectory ? This is interessting because units concealing fanatics can therefore be a great method to control enemy flyer's movement.

For me landing inside a unit just goes completely against the game's principles so I can't agree with the second proposal though.

dementian
13-05-2013, 16:26
Something moved to within 8" of your night goblin unit so you must launch your fanatics. So when you shoot your fanatics maybe just don't aim into your own unit... Shoot the fanatics to behind the orcs and hope the flyer lands on them.

Danny76
14-05-2013, 12:22
Surely it doesn't land till the end if the move in the picture example (magic and such I wouldn't know without looking).
I've seen people fly an eagle over a NG unit and land behind it to release the fanatics backwards into a O&G unit behind it (obviously you'd just send them out the front at nothing probably).

theunwantedbeing
14-05-2013, 12:37
Surely it doesn't land till the end if the move in the picture example

Nope, the unit stops immediately and fliers land.
That's what the Fanatic rules say.

Danny76
14-05-2013, 13:04
Ah ok, well that is a predicament then.
I'd go with releasing them whenever it comes within 8" and just not land it if its in an enemy unit or impassable terrain (as the fanatic wouldn't be sent towards either of those anyway)

ARabidNun
14-05-2013, 13:49
Ah ok, well that is a predicament then.
I'd go with releasing them whenever it comes within 8" and just not land it if its in an enemy unit or impassable terrain (as the fanatic wouldn't be sent towards either of those anyway)

I like your response as well. Another idea if you want to ignore the exact type of the rules, and play with a true spirit is letting the flyer land, making a dangerous terrain test, let fly the fanatics through the unit if the owning player so chooses, then finish the flyers movement. More realistic to me, but since most players stick to the nitty gritty of the rules as they are typed, and argue which takes precidence instead of which is more fun, or spirited I will keep my mind open.

FatTrucker
14-05-2013, 18:49
Whichever way it goes pretty much any player will release the fanatics in the direction of the flyers targeted landing zone, so even if the fanatics release at the point the flyer passes over the unit, they aren't obliged to direct them at the unit.
That being the case I would think the owning player of most flyers would choose a trajectory that's not going to activate the fanatics as it would just send them all toward the point they want to land on.

Also bear in mind the activation area for fanatics is almost square not circular or elliptical, as its 8" from every outer surface of the unit not from the centre of the unit, in which case according to the diagram above a flyer activating the fanatics would do so before it passed over the other O&G unit.

Bigdak
15-05-2013, 16:55
In my diagram I tried to represent elliptical.

ARabidNun, I really like this idea of the dangerous terrain test. This actually solves the issue with Hand of Gork, even if I'm still not conviced of the logic of the FAQ.I think if the problem occurs I will propose to my player :
- either he takes a dangerous terrain test and lands inside my unit giving me the possibility to throw my fanatics inside the horde almost garantiing a hit.
- either he can't land so fanatics aren't released

I'm not sure I like the option of "he has to land and therefore he can't move there"

I should probably have people to vote ..

ARabidNun
16-05-2013, 13:24
Whichever way it goes pretty much any player will release the fanatics in the direction of the flyers targeted landing zone, so even if the fanatics release at the point the flyer passes over the unit, they aren't obliged to direct them at the unit.
That being the case I would think the owning player of most flyers would choose a trajectory that's not going to activate the fanatics as it would just send them all toward the point they want to land on.

Actually if these units are stil in my deployment zone, I would not risk sending them backwards BEHIND my units for a chance to kill whatever flyer unit we are speaking about. This of course depends on 1. If the fanatics will be capable of destroying or routing said unit of flyers with little difficulty. (on the previous turn they may just run straight up through my units. 2. If the unit of flyers is big enough to guarantee they can not avoid landing on one or more fanatics. The owner has to designate his final point of origine BEFORE the fanatics are released, same as normal movement, so there is a good chance the fanatics will be in the right area, but a smart player will end the flyers 1" behind the unit so the fanatics will overrun with a high roll and not stop their movement under the final movement of the flyers. In any case, make an agreement with the other player beforehand.