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JWhex
14-05-2013, 01:19
Would you buy the new Lizardman army book if you were certain that it was going to be invalidated when 9th edition was released? For sake of discussion and the poll lets assume 9th edition is realesed 12- 16 months after the LM book is released

Sh4d0w
14-05-2013, 01:36
Well since you need the book to play in any gw store and any tournament...yes, even assuming it gets "invalidated" when 9th comes around you still get over a year to enjoy it.

PrehistoricUFO
14-05-2013, 01:41
Sort of don't have a choice, especially with a year or more to go, you can still get a lot of use out of it.

There are other ways to use the book and not lose a dime, especially if you feel it truly isn't worth it due to the short window of time it's valid.

NurglesRot
14-05-2013, 01:43
Curious as to why you think 9th editon would invalidate it? Just how much could possibly change?

If a new edition negates a book 12 months before it was released, it could only be worse for all books that came before it?

someone2040
14-05-2013, 01:50
If you're going to get a good run out of it, why not. It's not like 6 months later it's done and dusted.
Also, I enjoy the army books for more than just the army lists in them. Especially so with Lizardmen that was my first army in the game.

So personally, I would buy it. I can see why others might not though. But I don't really see that the point is specifically Lizardmen. Would you buy ANY army book knowing it's going to be invalidated in 2 years? 1 year? 6 months?

Thruster
14-05-2013, 02:17
Look at Wood Elf and Brets. They have been using their armybook for 12 years or so. Worth every single penny.

IcedCrow
14-05-2013, 02:24
Wood elves and brets came out circa 2005. It hasn't quite been 12 years.

Lord Solar Plexus
14-05-2013, 04:30
It probably feels like they came out in 1985 for some...

I would not buy any book that I knew would be invalidated in such a short time, LM or not. Perhaps if every book would be invalidated but that's unimaginable.

Malagor
14-05-2013, 04:44
Wood elves and brets came out circa 2005. It hasn't quite been 12 years.
Brets was releasesd in 2003 and if I recall WE in 2004 so atleast one of them has had a 10 year run and still holds up overall well.
This thread makes no real sense tho.
If you are an LM player then why wouldn't you get the new book ? Are you gonna wait 4 more years and use a 7e book in 9e just to wait for the 9e LM book ?
So if one of my armies would get a new book say 6 months before 9e hits, would I get it ? Yes I would since that book will no doubt work better in 9e then the older one would.
I'm sure it will be the same for the new LM book.

SteveW
14-05-2013, 04:59
Wood elves and brets came out circa 2005. It hasn't quite been 12 years.

My bret book says GW 2003, so a decade with it. Im on my third one of the same book. The first one was $17, the second $20, and the third $33.

As for the topic at hand: I would buy it because I dont recal an edition ever 'invalidating' any book. Except Chaos Dwarfs... I think.

Voss
14-05-2013, 05:05
My bret book says GW 2003, so a decade with it. Im on my third one of the same book. The first one was $17, the second $20, and the third $33.


You, sir, are history's greatest monster. What could you possibly be doing to your books?

SteveW
14-05-2013, 05:13
You, sir, are history's greatest monster. What could you possibly be doing to your books?

I lost one, spilled beer on another, and now the third is falling apart from use.

zoggin-eck
14-05-2013, 06:28
Is there any indication that 9th edition will invalidate it? By invalidate, you mean like 6th WHFB/3rd 40k?

I guess you could ask those who bought 5th edition Vampire Counts. :D

Urgat
14-05-2013, 07:08
My bret book says GW 2003, so a decade with it. Im on my third one of the same book. The first one was $17, the second $20, and the third $33.

As for the topic at hand: I would buy it because I dont recal an edition ever 'invalidating' any book. Except Chaos Dwarfs... I think.

The Chaos dwarf AB were invalidated by 6th ed the same way every other book was, though, it was replaced by a Ravening Horde list, the case is a bit different. As for the question, if I was a LM player, yes, I would, the switch to 9th might shake the internal balance a bit, but I can't see it being invalidated altogether. And I call bull on the 9th ed rumors anyway, they're like a complete Uturn from what they tried to do with 8th.


I lost one, spilled beer on another, and now the third is falling apart from use.

:eek: I'm still on my original 4th ed OnG book, and I keep looking at it for inspiration even today :p

Ratarsed
14-05-2013, 07:19
I've stopped buying books for armies I don't own. I don't collect lizardmen so I won't buy it 9th edition or not. Although I have to say I am finding the rumours about 9th very difficult to believe. Allies yes. All armies in 1 book? A bucket load of salt with this one.

Daniel36
14-05-2013, 07:38
9th is not going to invalidate it. It might make the army less enjoyable to play, but it won't invalidate it. Then again, it might make it more playable all the same.
Or you could just continue playing 8th.

Danny76
14-05-2013, 07:44
As for the topic at hand: I would buy it because I dont recal an edition ever 'invalidating' any book. Except Chaos Dwarfs... I think.

I believe the topic starter asked because many of the rumors are pointing to this happening for 9th.
There is a likely chance if true that all the books will be invalidated so stuff after LM gets even less of a run

Slowpoke
14-05-2013, 07:46
Would you buy the new Lizardman army book if you were certain that it was going to be invalidated when 9th edition was released? For sake of discussion and the poll lets assume 9th edition is realesed 12- 16 months after the LM book is released

Although it's hard to believe that the 9th edition would invalidate the new LM book(I trust the developers have learned something so far :D) I'd definately still buy it. I would get a good 12 to 16 months of play with brand new lists and units.

Rakariel
14-05-2013, 08:15
Yes I would because we have no idea yet how they will handle it. ABs get invalidated every time a new one comes out anyway. This happens quite often with more popular armies so I dont see the fuss about it. I mean, if they do it the right way, a possible compendium could be great and better than a single book per army. One or 2 volumes would be too few however, they have to put armies together that FIT together. Therefore I just hope they dont butcher the fluff with this.

Darnok
14-05-2013, 08:48
Yes.

And I'd simply stay with 8th. :)

theunwantedbeing
14-05-2013, 08:58
It's 12-16 months of a brand new book, why wouldn't you want to get it?

Gromdal
14-05-2013, 09:00
It probably feels like they came out in 1985 for some...

I would not buy any book that I knew would be invalidated in such a short time, LM or not. Perhaps if every book would be invalidated but that's unimaginable.

The "unimaginable" will happen.

Liber
14-05-2013, 09:10
I believe the topic starter asked because many of the rumors are pointing to this happening for 9th.


If by rumors, you mean fear-mongering...then yes. Lots and lots of rumors.

Starlive
14-05-2013, 09:20
I mean, if they do it the right way, a possible compendium could be great and better than a single book per army. One or 2 volumes would be too few however, they have to put armies together that FIT together. Therefore I just hope they dont butcher the fluff with this.

Please define FIT together. ;)
For exemple, FW made a book containing rules for Chaos, Chaos Dwarfs and Empire (and allowing you to bring back the old Warriors/Demons/Beast altogether). Do you feel it fits together ?
Next they plan to have a book with Dwarfs and Orcs (and propbably some Empire)

You can have books with "side" in mind (The Good Guys, The Bad Guys, The Ugly Guys) or you can have books to be able to "Wage Wars" having in the same books antagonists, so you'll be ready from the get go.

It's not like they are closing them options by stacking various factions in one book.
And I'll join the chorus that says it allows them to put the backgrounds both in separate books, wether they are art books, GW fluff books or Black Library stories.

To get back on topic, since I don't play LM, I am not too interested in the book but since I fell 8th is good game, if 9th will end up breaking everything I feel is great in WH, I will probably buy the missing 8th Army Books and settle with this edition for a while...

Rakariel
14-05-2013, 09:52
With "fitting together" I meant something different, sorry for being unclear. What I meant was that if troops of armies are interchangeable with others (and that is the rumor about 9th) they should fit together, like WoC, DoC and BM. No stuff like HE and DoC or some other nonesense.

Therefore, if there are a few armies in one volume AND have interchangeable army lists they should damn well fit together fluff wise.
Tamurkhan has different armies but they have no interchangeable army lists (well apart from WoC, DoC and BM which again fits fluff wise ;)).

sulla
14-05-2013, 12:14
I would buy a book if I knew it was going to have a shortish life cycle... but I would endeavour to find a discounter to buy it from. No point paying full price.

EmperorNorton
14-05-2013, 12:41
I asked myself this very question yesterday and taking into account that my Lizardmen army for the most part isn't even assambled yet, my answer is no. I simply would not get enough use out of it.
For similar reasons I already decided to not buy the High Elf book.

IcedCrow
14-05-2013, 13:02
how is 9th edition going to invalidate any new book

underscore
14-05-2013, 13:14
By reverting to compendiums rather than individual army books (according to H&H),

IcedCrow
14-05-2013, 13:18
I'd take that with a huge grain of salt.

underscore
14-05-2013, 13:20
Well, they both seem pretty sure, and unusually vocal about it, so the odds are generally in their favour.

But anyway, it's all in the Rumour Forum in the 2.0 thread.

quina2525
14-05-2013, 14:33
Well, they both seem pretty sure, and unusually vocal about it, so the odds are generally in their favour.

But anyway, it's all in the Rumour Forum in the 2.0 thread.

Yeah, im avoiding that thread like the plague now, fair enough the rumors probably have merit and an all in one army/rulebook does come out, but there is the whole " wfb is dead/ going to get cut/ im gonna keep playing 8th" bull.

I'm gonna buy it because I will use it for one, even if it is only for a year and I like the back stories even if they are a c+p job, and I like the pretty pictures ;)

IcedCrow
14-05-2013, 14:37
I'm still going to take it with a giant grain of salt. If they go that route oh well. They've done that before. Vampire Counts 5th edition was out about a year when Ravening Hordes re-wrote all of the army lists for 6th.

Blinder
14-05-2013, 14:42
If I played/had an interest in Lizardmen... "probably," because I don't have an existing book and thus I'm looking at a nice hardback collection of background, artwork, and some unit stats that I might get some mileage from (even if only to know what's up across the table). If I played lizzies alongside another equally-favored army *and* felt there was reliably less than a year before I'd be using something different... then I'd likely consider holding off and just using the other army. I'm not sold on the notion that the books will be entirely out the window but I'd rather bet with "games played with not-lizardmen" rather than "cash money." If I were just interested in the army and already had a book for background-info purposes, I'd probably skip it regardless...

underscore
14-05-2013, 15:04
Yeah, im avoiding that thread like the plague now, fair enough the rumors probably have merit and an all in one army/rulebook does come out, but there is the whole " wfb is dead/ going to get cut/ im gonna keep playing 8th" bull.
Not as much as I'd have expected, to be fair. Besides, it's going to hit this thread soon enough as well. :)

To try to keep it to the OP: I would buy an army book if I could get a year or so out of it. I tend to play a table top game of some description most weeks, so I'm sure I'd get my money's worth. It's probably also worth noting that Hastings said that he wasn't necessarily expecting army books after the next few, just model updates. If that's right AND the rumours of a 2015 release for 9th, you should get a year out of any 8th books you buy.

(big IF)

IcedCrow
14-05-2013, 15:06
And if you start seeing other books getting released then what he is saying is largely false. Unless GW decides to release army books up until totally invalidating them.

underscore
14-05-2013, 15:22
Yep. Still, even if he's right there's a few more to go anyway, so people should get decent use out of the LM book at the very worst.

Ratarsed
14-05-2013, 15:37
And if you start seeing other books getting released then what he is saying is largely false. Unless GW decides to release army books up until totally invalidating them.
I think it more likely that the army books will be valid for 9th. I remember reading or hearing Jervis I think it was, saying they would never repeat the ravening hordes reboot of 6th. And given they are producing top quality army books at up market prices I don't think they will want the flak that a new ravening hordes style reboot would bring.
However that does not stop them releasing a compendium style book for people who want allies in their army but don't want to buy the whole new army book just for the rules of a few allies. A compendium of all the races does not automatically mean all the current army books will be invalid with 9th.

IcedCrow
14-05-2013, 15:52
That could be it exactly. That its a combined army book compendium thing but that the army books are still valid.

Reticent
14-05-2013, 16:29
Yeah, it doesn't have to be an either/or scenario. The first compendium could just be a paired down selection from the existing armies, say 2 core, 1 rare, 1 special, and a pair of the more representative characters. Then the requisite caveat "to further expand your collection, see Warhammer Armies: XXXX".

Regardless, if I were a Lizardman player I would not hesitate to pick up the book. Worst case, it is better to have a short lived book than an entire army that has to sit on the shelf for more than a year.

Danny76
14-05-2013, 16:33
And lets hope it is. I'd much rather that..
As from what H&H have said it seems they would be releasing books right up to 9th - whatever it may be. So yeah Lizardmen get a good 12-16 months (not long enough for the price imo), but some will get even less than that. I'd hate a repeat of 5th ed Vampires.. But who knows what'll happen. I've got way too much else to work on before I get to my Lizards so I wouldn't be buying it for a year or so likely anyway. But if it was My VC or Empire book, I'd buy it for a years worth of play, as I play them a lot, and the background and painting and such is all good stuff..

Malagor
14-05-2013, 16:37
Well the thing is that GW stated that their current format of releasing books to go with a bunch of new models has been a success and the writers have stated that they are planning to release books in a more rapid pace.
Now it is true that they have released codexes and army books in a more rapid pace but unlike Fantasy, 40k just got a new edition, they can't really just change the format in such a manner so quick.
But there have been suggestions/wishlisting that GW might be releasing expansion packs of sorts once the codexes and army books are updated thus dragging out the editions as they also stated that they would.
Compediums would make sense for expansion packs.

IcedCrow
14-05-2013, 16:58
Considering that this is what warmachine does, this would not surprise me in the least.

Captain Collius
14-05-2013, 17:02
Yep, I'd get it worst case scenario is we play 8th with my friends. Best Case it will look really cool.

Danny76
14-05-2013, 17:10
that's my preference and my thoughts on what will happen, aside from people in kne 'know' saying otherwise.
The pickup in book release this year is great, though it means since 8th Ed came out I've bought 7 books or so for my armies in Fantasy and 40k, half of those this year alone.
I'd much rather have to buy books more often as they are released in alternate months for the two systems. Even though it'd cost me more, its such a good timeframe to work on. 10 a year would be great and leave Sep+Dec spare for other stuff for example. Even 8, but why not keep it to nearly one every month =)

Charistoph
15-05-2013, 04:08
As for the topic at hand: I would buy it because I dont recal an edition ever 'invalidating' any book. Except Chaos Dwarfs... I think.

Dogs of War, pretty much as soon as 7th Edition started. First army book completely ignored its existence. FAQs later removed the option from other books, even if those that stayed in 6th Edition.

SteveW
15-05-2013, 04:33
Dogs of War, pretty much as soon as 7th Edition started. First army book completely ignored its existence. FAQs later removed the option from other books, even if those that stayed in 6th Edition.

Played both 5th and 6th ed and never ran into a dogs of war army.

Little Joe
15-05-2013, 04:34
I voted yes based on dwarfs. The only army book I would still buy directly from them and with even less rumoured play time. It has been said before: continue to use it for 8th.
At first I was not a fan of 8th, but it does have very good internal balance in the books overall. It would be different in that way.

As to the rumours, they could even make me happy. 8th for large scale battles and 9th for whatever it becomes. It would be very hard to keep the rules apart, but I can today play 4th to 7th because I have all the books (missing the last three of 8th). Allowing house rules that is a lot of choice.

EDIT: But you could also add a DOW unit to your army in rare. That was nice for variation and surprising for opponents;).

snyggejygge
15-05-2013, 06:27
Played both 5th and 6th ed and never ran into a dogs of war army.
Played back then as well, only ever seen 1 single DoW army in action in a tournament, a real shame since the DoW models are quite nice.
However a lot of my friends (myself included), liked fielding a single dow unit, not to overcome weaknesses, but rather because it gave us the chance to paint up something totally different & field some weird stuff in different armies.

As far as I remember (played since 4:th edition), the only time a book has been invalidated due to a new edition was 6:th ed (all books) & 7:th edition (removal of Chaos Dwarfs & DoW). So yes I would buy the new lizardmen book if I played them

Hrogoff the Destructor
15-05-2013, 17:12
I'd buy it and continue playing 8th. I think it's a great edition.

Spiney Norman
15-05-2013, 21:11
Well, they both seem pretty sure, and unusually vocal about it, so the odds are generally in their favour.

But anyway, it's all in the Rumour Forum in the 2.0 thread.

In fairness there have been rumours of a full reset of the army books before the release of every edition since 6th (the last time it actually happened). While its true that we could end up with Ravening hordes mkII I've seen that rumour enough times to doubt it Until I see it on the shelf. I play warhammer quite regularly and I do love a good book so I will get plenty of use out of a new LM AB, but having said that you're talking to a guy who started playing the game in 6th and bought a 5th ed LM army book off ebay just so he could read the fluff.

JWhex
16-05-2013, 12:55
A few people obviously have answered some other question than the one I posed, basicaly rejecting the premise of the hypothetical question.

Personally it would be terrible for my local game environment if 9th invalidated the current army books because it would drive away a large percentage of players in my area.

However, Hastings has a very good record with predicting things so I cant just dismiss it out of hand. Just because Jervis made some comment years ago about not resetting the armies does not commit GW to that policy forever until the end of time and it is laughable to even imagine that. There have been quite a few things Jervis has said over the years that were later reversed.

Most people that are paying attention to how GW is conducting business these days recognize that "churning and burning" the younger crowd is a large part of their strategy. With this approach there really is no reason not to completely reset the rules and army books if they think it will lead to a more profitable line of products.

Ratarsed
16-05-2013, 14:58
I think you should try to stop worrying about what might be and just enjoy the game you have now. Rumours have a tendency to exaggerate the doom and gloom and skip over the positive. Deal with 9th edition when it comes. Worrying over what might never come to pass is a pointless pastime. Especially when there is nothing you can do about it.

JWhex
16-05-2013, 15:41
I think you should try to stop worrying about what might be and just enjoy the game you have now. Rumours have a tendency to exaggerate the doom and gloom and skip over the positive. Deal with 9th edition when it comes. Worrying over what might never come to pass is a pointless pastime. Especially when there is nothing you can do about it.

Well one thing I can do is NOT invest more money in a sinking ship. When I say that the change to 6th killed whfb in my area I am not exagerrating the least bit. I can deal with rule changes, what I cant deal with is a lack of players and a totally dead tournament scene.

Blkc57
16-05-2013, 17:08
Well since you need the book to play in any gw store

Are there GW stores that still let you play without having to schedule a "playdate" weeks in advance?

Horus38
16-05-2013, 17:11
how is 9th edition going to invalidate any new book

^ This. And yes I'd buy it.

Captain Collius
16-05-2013, 17:57
Are there GW stores that still let you play without having to schedule a "playdate" weeks in advance?

Yes ours allows us to.

Lord Inquisitor
16-05-2013, 18:07
I gave it some thought and yeah, I would. Certainly a year or two's playing with a book still seems a good deal to me compared with the number of hours of entertainment a cinema trip or computer game gets you.

If it was a very short time - six months or less, say - I would be less happy about it unless I knew I was going to get a deal of use out of it.

Ebon
16-05-2013, 18:20
Yes, but grudgingly.

quina2525
16-05-2013, 19:45
I gave it some thought and yeah, I would. Certainly a year or two's playing with a book still seems a good deal to me compared with the number of hours of entertainment a cinema trip or computer game gets you.

If it was a very short time - six months or less, say - I would be less happy about it unless I knew I was going to get a deal of use out of it.

This...........

Ratarsed
16-05-2013, 22:40
Well one thing I can do is NOT invest more money in a sinking ship. When I say that the change to 6th killed whfb in my area I am not exagerrating the least bit. I can deal with rule changes, what I cant deal with is a lack of players and a totally dead tournament scene.
Are you talking 6th edition 40k or do you mean 8th fantasy? 6th edition fantasy was in 2000. That's 13 years ago.

I don't know where you live so can't advise you on finding players or tournaments but if you have been for 13 years without a WFB scene in your area I admire your stamina in sticking with it. Maybe traveling is the answer?

As for sinking ship, who knows maybe the changes that come with 9th will reinvigorate the WFB scene in your area? As I said the default reaction to rumours is to always assume the worst. Most times the worst does not happen and the sky does not fall. I think most people will not care a jot if their Lizardman army book is invalidated by 9th as long as what invalidates it is an improvement. For That we will have to wait and see.

JWhex
17-05-2013, 19:17
Are you talking 6th edition 40k or do you mean 8th fantasy? 6th edition fantasy was in 2000. That's 13 years ago.

I don't know where you live so can't advise you on finding players or tournaments but if you have been for 13 years without a WFB scene in your area I admire your stamina in sticking with it. Maybe traveling is the answer?

As for sinking ship, who knows maybe the changes that come with 9th will reinvigorate the WFB scene in your area? As I said the default reaction to rumours is to always assume the worst. Most times the worst does not happen and the sky does not fall. I think most people will not care a jot if their Lizardman army book is invalidated by 9th as long as what invalidates it is an improvement. For That we will have to wait and see.

To clarify, 6th edition fantasy killed whfb in the city where I live and destroyed an active tournament scene. We went from at least one monthly tournament in a 40 mile radius from my house to zero tournaments. Forty miles being inconsequential travel in the USA. Played very few games of fantasy for quite a while and had to deal with 40k. Gradualy people started to become interested and the game at least was playable but very few tournaments until 7th edition. The game grew very slowly and more people dropped than came into the game with 8th edition. Lately things have been growing again but slowly.

The game has never regained the popularity it had toward the end of 5th edition. I think the reasons are somewhat economic, start up cost, warmahordes, and the immense popularity of 40k.

The game itself just needs a few tweaks, however I am sure GW thinks it needs to be completely changed in order be more profitable. I dont think whfb will ever be as popular as 40k no matter what they do, the science fiction genre is just that much stronger than fantasy, especially the particular IP of 40k is very strong compared to the rather generic fanatasy setting of whfb.