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Citadel97501
15-05-2013, 03:58
Hello all,

I was having a discussion with a VC player today, and he tried to claim that their magic banner allows them to get a ward save against magic missiles such as those from the lore of metal?

kefkah
15-05-2013, 04:10
Yes indeed, magic missiles he does get a ward save for. Same goes for direct damage, basically any ranged attacks. I would say direct damage also.

Blkc57
15-05-2013, 04:53
It just says ranged attacks, and many people include magic missiles as a form of ranged attack, some also include direct damage spells since those are attacks done at a certain range. Things like vortexes are very tricky as are certain hexes that do wounds (flaming cage) I usually don't include those as ranged

NitrosOkay
15-05-2013, 05:33
I'm pretty sure the banner is intended to protect against anything that isn't close combat. Anything that isn't in close combat is technically a ranged attack.

Tae
15-05-2013, 11:35
I'm pretty sure the banner is intended to protect against anything that isn't close combat. Anything that isn't in close combat is technically a ranged attack.

Would you class miscast and dangerous terrains as ranged attacks?

VampireOrcElf
15-05-2013, 11:50
if you all read the rules you would find you are all wrong

Saldiven
15-05-2013, 12:39
if you all read the rules you would find you are all wrong

Why not quote the relevant rules passage? Otherwise, your post is worthless.

Blkc57
15-05-2013, 19:43
if you all read the rules you would find you are all wrong

now I am curious as to how we have all been wrong?

NitrosOkay
15-05-2013, 20:19
Would you class miscast and dangerous terrains as ranged attacks?

The relevant rule is just "A unit of blood knights gains a 4+ ward save against ranged attacks."

Ranged attacks are never defined in the rulebook. Close combat attacks are defined in the rulebook. While it's very debatable due to the lack of a good definition I'd go with anything outside of close combat attacks.

I think miscasts would be classified as a ranged attack because they're a template caused by a spell cast by a model. Dangerous terrain isn't an attack and has no model it originates from.

There's no 100% certain rules basis for that though and the FAQs are not helpful.

Wesser
15-05-2013, 20:40
now I am curious as to how we have all been wrong?

Don't feed the trolls...

VampireOrcElf
16-05-2013, 00:03
Don't feed the trolls...

There is nothing in the rules stating whether they are classified as ranged attacks, and nothing in the FAQ so this whole thread is speculation, im not trolling either ********

Yamabushi
16-05-2013, 01:24
I've always taken "ranged attacks" to be anything done in the Shooting Phase, it just seems the most logical to our group.

Same for spells / magic in the Magic Phase and Close Combat attacks in the CC Phase.

roundarmor
16-05-2013, 01:57
how is a miscast a ranged attack if the template is place over the point of origin?

NitrosOkay
16-05-2013, 02:40
how is a miscast a ranged attack if the template is place over the point of origin?

Because Blood Knights generally don't miscast so it has to come from another model and other characters get a Look Out Sir! against miscast templates and I don't believe you get look out sirs against non-ranged attacks.

We can argue all day but again there's no actual rule clarification covering this.

Shadowfane
16-05-2013, 07:22
Because Blood Knights generally don't miscast so it has to come from another model and other characters get a Look Out Sir! against miscast templates and I don't believe you get look out sirs against non-ranged attacks.

We can argue all day but again there's no actual rule clarification covering this.

Well.... you can actually get look out sir rolls against Impact Hits...... :p

NitrosOkay
16-05-2013, 08:00
Well.... you can actually get look out sir rolls against Impact Hits...... :p

Page 71 – Special Rules, Resolving Impact Hits.
Add the following sentence to the end of the third paragraph:
‘“Look Out Sir!” rolls cannot be taken against Impact Hits.’

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3180060a_WARHAMMER_RULEBOOK_v1.8_APRIL13.pdf

:P

Citadel97501
16-05-2013, 08:05
Page 71 – Special Rules, Resolving Impact Hits.
Add the following sentence to the end of the third paragraph:
‘“Look Out Sir!” rolls cannot be taken against Impact Hits.’
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3180060a_WARHAMMER_RULEBOOK_v1.8_APRIL13.pdf

:P

You do realize you don't need LOS against impact hits right? They are distributed as shooting, so they affect the unit rather than the character.

MyNameDidntFit
16-05-2013, 08:05
I've always seen this played as any damage that does not have its source in base-to-base contact with the unit is 'ranged'. Always struck me as logical.


You do realize you don't need LOS against impact hits right? They are distributed as shooting, so they affect the unit rather than the character.

Unless the character is on their own within 3" of a unit or their unit has <5 rank and file models.

Shadowfane
16-05-2013, 11:18
Page 71 – Special Rules, Resolving Impact Hits.
Add the following sentence to the end of the third paragraph:
‘“Look Out Sir!” rolls cannot be taken against Impact Hits.’

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3180060a_WARHAMMER_RULEBOOK_v1.8_APRIL13.pdf

:P

Ha! fair enough :P Although in all fairness, thats one of those FAQ rulings that they've done a 180 on :p

bigbiggles
20-05-2013, 01:23
It was also pretty out of the blue when it came up. Seems like they let the new intern write that batch of faqs.