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Korpacz
15-05-2013, 07:16
Sorcerer Lord - MoN, Level 4 (lore of Nurgle), Crwn Command, ToP, Enchanted Shield, Chaos Familiar, Soul Feeder, Burning Body
Exalted Hero - MoN, BSB, Helm of Many Eyes, Dawnstone, Halberd, Scaled Skin

28 Warriors - MoN, FC, Shields, Standard of Disc.
4 x 5 Warhounds
15 Trolls
2 x Gorebeast Chariots - MoN
2 x Hellcannons

Wondering what kind of armies you think this list would struggle against? Any major weaknesses?

Also, wondering which lore would be better, nurgle or metal?

Mikael.K
15-05-2013, 07:37
Id go with the nurgle lore here.

- Id split the trolls into 2 units 7 and 8 strong. Doesnt make the such a big target and harder to redirect.
- Consider giving the BSB a ward save, talisman of endurance or armour of destiny. Vs serious fighters hes going to need it, even with mark of nurgle.
- Glaring weaknesses? Pretty vulnerable vs big spells that kill infantry (lore of metal/life springs to mind) and warmachines that kan kill the warriors or the hellcannons.

Cool list! :)

zielonkak
15-05-2013, 09:50
On a horde warrior unit I would drop shields and give Halbreds or great weapons. They are going to be - 1 to hit and you can cast regen on them...they will destroy anyone dumb enough to get in combat with them. With that said, you can also drop the crown, because it won't be needed. I am not the biggest fan of horde chaos warriors until you get to Atleast 3000 pts. If your looking for an anvil unit, you can take 17 with shields and festus and that should be plenty. Also, why no through to lead those trolls. I would horde them with him leading them. Add nurgle magic to buff regen, and they will be your deveststing force.

zielonkak
15-05-2013, 09:51
*throgg, sorry

Korpacz
15-05-2013, 17:42
Unfortunately special characters are not allowed, otherwise throgg and festus would be natural choices. I think you're right about hording up warriors, it's a waste. So I dropped some warriors to include an 8 pack of forsaken with MoK for hatred. I also changed up the bsb and sorc lord to make them a little tougher and I put the bsb on a daemonic steed so that the sorc lord goes in the second rank.

I'm hesitant to split up the trolls because size wise they have a large footprint which makes it hard to manage stupidity with only a 12" LD bubble. Maybe I could put the BSB in one unit to share his leadership.

Halberds on the warriors are nice, if I decide to remove the BSB maybe I'll switch them to halberds, but the idea right now is the BSB takes up 4 slots in the unit, including 2 in the front rank, so I can charge in, challenge with the BSB and stop my opponent from attacking anything outside the BSB because he's in a challenge.

Here's the revised list:

Sorc Lord - Level 4, Armor of Dstiny, Fencers Blades, Dragonbane Gem,, Chaos Familiar, Scaled Skin
Exalted - BSB, MoN, Daemonic Mount, Barding, Talisman of Preservation, Charmed Shield, Halberd, Soul Feeder

18 Warriors - MoN, FC, Shields, Standard of Disc.
8 Forsaken - MoK
3 x 5 Warhounds
15 Trolls
2 x Gorebeast Chariots - MoN
2 x Hellcannons

Blitzgundam
16-05-2013, 07:01
Unfortunately special characters are not allowed, otherwise throgg and festus would be natural choices. I think you're right about hording up warriors, it's a waste. So I dropped some warriors to include an 8 pack of forsaken with MoK for hatred. I also changed up the bsb and sorc lord to make them a little tougher and I put the bsb on a daemonic steed so that the sorc lord goes in the second rank.

I'm hesitant to split up the trolls because size wise they have a large footprint which makes it hard to manage stupidity with only a 12" LD bubble. Maybe I could put the BSB in one unit to share his leadership.

Halberds on the warriors are nice, if I decide to remove the BSB maybe I'll switch them to halberds, but the idea right now is the BSB takes up 4 slots in the unit, including 2 in the front rank, so I can charge in, challenge with the BSB and stop my opponent from attacking anything outside the BSB because he's in a challenge.

Here's the revised list:

Sorc Lord - Level 4, Armor of Dstiny, Fencers Blades, Dragonbane Gem,, Chaos Familiar, Scaled Skin
Exalted - BSB, MoN, Daemonic Mount, Barding, Talisman of Preservation, Charmed Shield, Halberd, Soul Feeder

18 Warriors - MoN, FC, Shields, Standard of Disc.
8 Forsaken - MoK
3 x 5 Warhounds
15 Trolls
2 x Gorebeast Chariots - MoN
2 x Hellcannons

I really think the Sorcerer Lord should have the ward save and the BSB the highest re-rollable armor save possible. I always worry about miscasting and doing the Str 10 hit on my caster, and if your BSB is in a battle he needs a ward sv for, then he's already dead. If you change them as such, you can give the Sorcerer the Tal of Pres, scaled skin, and charmed shield, and give the BSB the enchanted shield with dawnstone.

Gorebeast Chariots w MoN are really good. I have 2 myself, a third is in the works.

20 seems to be the best way to take warriors. With only one rank and file block of them, I worry about being able to handle larger armies like Empire, Skaven, and Orcs.

I understand your point about the trolls. They are very hard to keep from failing Stupidity. I honestly would roll the points into more warriors, but if you are set on Trolls, try going 4x3. I know its only 12, but that formation makes them wide and your opponent needs to knock off 4 trolls to effect ranks. Hopefully you roll Regen better than I do!

MeatGrinder
16-05-2013, 12:05
Looks pretty solid, just a few things Ive found to work really well:

-Put your bsb on a demonic mount and run him in the unit of trolls. It gives him +1w, +1T, making him as survivable as a chaos lord. And letting the trolls use his Ld. However, if you want him to eat challenges for your sorcorer, dont do this.

-I think units of 24 warriors are great, they need to take a LOT of casualties before they stop being a major threat. I also really like banner of swiftness, letting them keep pace with the rest of the army. Also, halberds are amazing. I5 S5 WS5, in a game where the average Toughness is 3.

- I personally really dont like forsaken at all. Id prefer using those points on warriors.

- Metal is really strong, but you'd have to drop MoN. Nurgle is also great for buffing your troops, especially Giving them poison or extra toughness, or even improving the trolls regen to 4+, and rancid visitations is nuts vs anything t3. Death is also really good. Purple sun has won me a LOT of games, but your sorc is pretty slow, and you really want to be sending sun up a flank. Other than that its great for picking off characters.

Korpacz
16-05-2013, 17:56
Thanks for the advice. I think everyone is right about the 12 trolls being better than 15, so that's what I did. I think this is the final list if not very close:

Sorc Lord - 3+ AS, 4++ Ward, WS10, causes Fear
Level 4 (Metal), Fencer's blades, Armor of Destiny, Chalice of Chaos, Dragonbane Gem, Chaos Familiar, Scaled Skin, Hideous Visage

Exalted - 2+ AS, 4++ ward, charmed shield for the first cannonball
MoN, BSB, Daemonic Mount, Barding, Talisman of Preservation, Charmed Shield, Halberd, Soul Feeder

19 Warriors - MoN, FC, Shields, Standard of Discipline (368)
2 x 5 Forsaken - MoK (105 each)
3 x Chaoshounds - Vanguard (40 each)
2 x Gorebeast Chariots - MoN (140 each)
12 Trolls
2 x Hellcannons

I think I'm going with lore of metal because it's not quite as situational as nurgle and it has a ton of synergy with my army. The 3 spells that really stood out were (1) AOE +2 to armor save, that gives almost my entire army a 1+ or 2+ armor save, (2) plague of rust, causing -1 to AS permanently is a fantastic spell that people absolutely abhor, it will be a good way to soften up a demon prince or character with a 1+ which is crucial since most of my army is only S5, (3) Searing Doom, again, since my army is only S5 this and possibly Ghenna's Hounds will provide me an answer to steam tanks, Demi Gryphs, Skullcrushers and Mournfang, (4) Final Transmutation - I'm not sure what else to say about this spell other than "yes please". The rest of the lore is also great, including +1 to hit and flaming attacks, and the -1 to WS and AS spell has a ton of synergy with my WS5 S5 army, it'll help the trolls hit on 3's instead of 4's and make most units hit my warriors on 6's instead of 5's.

I know the Forsaken have a bad rep, but I think that's mostly a carry-over from their previous rules. In my opinion (and I may be proven wrong), they are pretty awesome for their points cost. Consider this, 5 Forsaken for 105 points can dish out UP TO 20 attacks with hatred at WS4 I4, S4 AND they get some kind of buff like poison, ASF or Killing blow. For 105 points (less than MoS marauder cav with flails and javelins) they make a good speed bump that can do some damage and are ideal for churning through slaves, goblins, swordsmen and the like. I don't expect them to live through any games, but I expect them to leave a dent in anything they touch, and with movement 6 and a 4+ armor save they can get where they need to be and have some chance of surviving a second round of combat. Did I mention they're immune to psychology?

My 19 warriors will have the lord and BSB in the unit making them a full 24 "bodies" since the daemonic mount counts as 4 guys, however, I think I may run this unit as 5x5 letting the BSB do the heavy lifting on one corner, sacrificing the champ on the other corner in a challenge to deny combat res, and hopefully winning through static combat res while breaking steadfast.

I'm still toying with the idea of removing one of the forsaken units and getting rid of vanguard on the dogs and hideous visage on the lord (had 5 extra points for that) which would free up 140 points. I'm just not sure where that would go - maybe another Gorebeast Chariot? But that seems like overkill and takes away some tactical flexibility - I use the dogs to redirect, warmachine hunt and sacrifice into fanatics and mangler squiggs.

zielonkak
16-05-2013, 18:27
The forsaken now, are way too good to not use. I run two units of khorne between 5 and 7 depending how I feel. They are better in almost every way then a chariot and are cheaper. My core usually consists of a block of warriors, two forsaken squads, and some hounds.

Fighting Newfoundlander
16-05-2013, 23:28
I think this is a really solid non-standard WoC Army. Well done. I'd want to have an ironcurse in the big unit, though they will likely be shooting the BSB, admittedly. Tell us how it does, because it looks like it'd not only be competitive, but a lot of fun to play (for both sides).

Korpacz
17-05-2013, 03:29
I think this is a really solid non-standard WoC Army. Well done. I'd want to have an ironcurse in the big unit, though they will likely be shooting the BSB, admittedly. Tell us how it does, because it looks like it'd not only be competitive, but a lot of fun to play (for both sides).

Ha. That is exactly what I was going for. I've been doing very well with my Nurgle DP, 2 x Chimera, unkillable BSB, 3 skull crushers, etc. list. There is a lot of hate for WoC and my army was loathed. I toned it down a bit and people still complained "warriors need a nerf" so my goal here was to bring something WITHOUT all the toys (DP, Chimera, Skullcrushers, etc). While I wanted it to be different, I'm not a fan of fluff bunny lists; I play because I like the strategy and tactics involved first and foremost, so I wanted it to be competitive and have answers for all the various threats out there.

Warriors are good, but there are tougher armies out there. Most people either don't know how to play against them or are too lazy to employ tactics to beat them. I see a lot of people running their armies straight forward and hoping for buff X to go off to beat warriors at their own game... that's just a poor plan. I digress. I'll try to get a game in this weekend and let you know how it goes.