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Spaceboy
15-05-2013, 19:04
Hi all,
As Nagash is one of the legendary characters in the Warhammer World, I for one would love to see an update to his rules and that god-awful clown-like sculpt. I can't see GW or Forgeworld updating him any time soon but I've create a petition to show GW how much interested and love there is for the character and how many people would love to see his return (if any). We all knew he rocked it in 5th edition and imagine the fun us undead players could have duelling with Teclis again! This is purely speculation and wishlisting and the petition probably won't go anywhere, but maybe they will look at it if it received 5k to 10k+ sigs.


Please help by signing if your interested in Nagash's return!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/release-a-nagash-modelrules-for-warhammer-fantasy/


(To mods: Please delete this thread if it's deemed unreasonable, I wasn't sure if petitions were acceptable on WS.)

reddevil18
15-05-2013, 19:09
Name: Craig Grant on May 15, 2013
Comments: Not like GW care about what the customers want but what the hey.

SethDrallitoc
15-05-2013, 19:34
Signed. Someone should post this to Carpe Noctem. That would certainly get the ball rolling faster.

IcedCrow
15-05-2013, 19:35
Man six dicing his spells chanting "come on double 6" would be epic lulz.

Anholm
15-05-2013, 20:02
Guys... you have to think this through. What if they bring back the old miniature? Nobody would want that surely!

Skywave
15-05-2013, 20:26
Guys... you have to think this through. What if they bring back the old miniature? Nobody would want that surely!

He's still available in certain GW site (UK one still have it). He'll be gone soon, but it's not like that miniature have dissapeared yet ;)

Spaceboy
15-05-2013, 20:37
The day that hideous clown model disappears from the online store the better! xD
I'll post the petition on Carpe Noctem tomorrow, spread the word!

-Loki-
15-05-2013, 23:35
The problem is there's no real book to put him in. Originally his armies were structured like Khemrian armies, but as time went on, it was more general undead. However, they were still more structured than the random, shambling undead the Vampire Counts do.

The best way to do it would have been to include him in Storm of Magic, as a character players could include in either Tomb Kings or Vampire Counts as the armies as the armies General. In the case of Tomb Kings, he would count as the... heirophant? The one that keeps the army animated. That way players could choose what sort of army they wanted him leading.

HereComesTomorrow
16-05-2013, 00:37
Guys... you have to think this through. What if they bring back the old miniature? Nobody would want that surely!

I can see the announcment now...
"Because you demanded it, the Classic Nagash miniature is now in Finecast for a limited time only!"

The Underdog
16-05-2013, 00:58
Signed - lets hope he makes a return in an epic form. With accompanying new and awesome miniature. Have a feeling this might be better suited to forge world these days though....

-Loki-
16-05-2013, 04:39
Signed - lets hope he makes a return in an epic form. With accompanying new and awesome miniature. Have a feeling this might be better suited to forge world these days though....

This is a good point. A variant army list through Forgeworld would be a great way to do Nagash's armies, since his forces are more like a mix of the two Undead armies (sans stone Constructs and various bat monsters).

stainawarjar
16-05-2013, 11:23
Signed - lets hope he makes a return in an epic form. With accompanying new and awesome miniature. Have a feeling this might be better suited to forge world these days though....

What would be awesome is if they made Nagash and Sigmar, and made them like Abaddon and Loken where they're posed to be duelling, with an optional base for both of them. Would make an awesome display piece.

Horus38
16-05-2013, 17:18
I can see the announcment now...
"Because you demanded it, the Classic Nagash miniature is now in Finecast for a limited time only!"

Signed, but I can totally see this happening ^

MOMUS
16-05-2013, 17:35
Guys... you have to think this through. What if they bring back the old miniature? Nobody would want that surely!


I was going to use him as my K'daai. :yes:

theunwantedbeing
16-05-2013, 17:35
Signed - lets hope he makes a return in an epic form. With accompanying new and awesome miniature. Have a feeling this might be better suited to forge world these days though....

If they do Sigmar will be running while leaning at a 45 degree angle and it will be awesome I guess.
Would be nice to see a re-done nagash though :)

sulla
16-05-2013, 19:48
He's still available in certain GW site (UK one still have it). He'll be gone soon, but it's not like that miniature have dissapeared yet ;)On sale, only while stocks last... (So available for the next 50 years until they sell the last one?)

Craze_b0i
16-05-2013, 23:17
I think it is likely from the way the fluff is going in the ABs they are planning to bring him back anyway. It seems they plan to put him into Vampire Counts with Mannfred the halfwit as his stooge.

GrandmasterWang
17-05-2013, 00:53
Nagash old sculpt is just like him. It will never be truly eliminated

snottlebocket
17-05-2013, 11:04
This is a good point. A variant army list through Forgeworld would be a great way to do Nagash's armies, since his forces are more like a mix of the two Undead armies (sans stone Constructs and various bat monsters).

Depends on what time period you take really. GW lateron split up the undead fluff pretty definitively. Both the vampires and the mummies hate Nagash's guts.

What I always loved about the old undead was that they were very Hammer Horror. Vampire Counts and Tomb kings have very narrow themes. The old Nagash era undead had a much more horror movie themed theme. Zombies, skeletons, mummies, vampires, bats, vultures, wraiths, ghosts. The older models go even further with a whole line called night horrors that include pretty much every old Hammer horror movie stereotype there was.

I'd love to see Nagash return as some kind of outcast who gathers all the creatures of the night that don't belong to the vampires or tomb kings. The errant dead, the wights, wraiths, werewolves, ghouls, every dark thing that skulks in a cave or empty hold, everything the vampires are too haughty to really associate with (even though they might have used them as fodder in the past). Vampires might actually have to resort to their living minions as Nagash's necromancy would override any control they have over dead ones.

misterdance
18-05-2013, 11:30
A while back, as a thought experiment, I came up with rules for Sigmar and Nagash - updated for 8th Edition.

Nagash the Great Necromancer (Monstrous Infantry, Special Character) 850 points
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 7 7 8 7 7 6 6 10

Magic: Nagash is a Level 4 Wizard. He has Loremaster (Vampires, Death, and Shadow). He must be your army's General.

Special Rules: Immune to Psychology, Terror, Undead, The Great Necromancer

Magic Items:
Mortis, the Great Blade of Death
Black Armour of Nagash
Book of Nagash
Staff of Power

The Great Necromancer. Nagash is able to use Invocation of Nehek to increase any undead unit beyond their starting size. His Legendary Presence is also 18".

Mortis, the Great Blade of Death. +1 Strength (already in his statline). In addition, Nagash regains one wound for each unsaved wound inflicted by the blade up to his maximum Wound characteristic.

Black Armour of Nagash. 4+ Armour Save, not subject to Armour Save modifiers (will always receive a 4+ Armour Save, even if no armour saves are normally allowed).

Book of Nagash. Whilst Nagash has the Book of Nagash, his Wizard Level is increased to 5. If the Book of Nagash is ever destroyed, Nagash immediately loses a Wizard Level.

Staff of Power. The staff allows Nagash to channel power/dispel dice on a 5+. In addition, he may reroll up to 2 dice when he rolls for the Winds of Magic.

ARMIES OF UNDEAD - Army Selection
Nagash commands the legions of undeath like no other. Thus, any army that has Nagash as its General may select units (following normal unit restrictions) from both Warhammer Armies: Vampire Counts and Warhammer Armies: Tomb Kings, except for a Hierophant. When Nagash is slain, use the Slain General rule under Generals of Undeath in Warhammer Armies: Vampire Counts. Note that all spells and effects that target Undead units also includes Nehekharan Undead units.

malisteen
18-05-2013, 12:55
Depends on what time period you take really. GW lateron split up the undead fluff pretty definitively. Both the vampires and the mummies hate Nagash's guts.

Well, that's the way it used to be, but while there are still factions that oppose Nagash in both books, there are now supporters as well. The current TK book includes Arkhan, Nagash's right hand man, and makes it clear that the Black still actively supports his ancient master. As for the Vamp Counts - it was implied in previous books that the Necrarchs served the Great Necromancer. And while the Necrarch's are sadly downplayed in the current book, it did bring back Kemmler. In the Lichmaster's old fluff it was hinted that he might serve Nagash, though perhaps unknowingly. In the new fluff he's just overtly in Nagash's service. And even that's not as blatant as the changes to Manfred. Nagash used to be the one creature Manfred feared, and the last of the Von Carsteins devoted considerable resources to opposing the Lich-Lord's return. Now Manny's basically the president of the Nagash fan club, and crown jewel of a new collection of Dark Lords of Nagash. I don't really like this change to the fluff (I like to pretend that the 'Count Manfred' entry in the army book was a misprint, and it meant to say 'Melkhior' instead), but regardless, both of the current undead books are far more closely aligned with Nagash, or at least offer more overtly Nagash-aligned characters and options, than any undead books since the old undead were first split into the Vamp Counts and the Tomb Kings.



What I always loved about the old undead was that they were very Hammer Horror. Vampire Counts and Tomb kings have very narrow themes. The old Nagash era undead had a much more horror movie themed theme. Zombies, skeletons, mummies, vampires, bats, vultures, wraiths, ghosts. The older models go even further with a whole line called night horrors that include pretty much every old Hammer horror movie stereotype there was.
I liked this about the old undead as well, and it's why the current Vamp Count book is my favorite undead army book since the split. It's lacking the mummies, but it still has a lot of that varried feel to it, with skeletons, zombies, ghouls, giant ghouls, vampires, wights, ghosts, wolves, were-bats, necromancers, giant floating ghost chariots, bat swarms, banshees, wraiths, etc. While a lot of that was present in previous Vamp Counts books, the current book does a much better job of letting you mix and match what you want instead of shoe-horning you into obvious best builds.


I'd love to see Nagash return as some kind of outcast who gathers all the creatures of the night that don't belong to the vampires or tomb kings. The errant dead, the wights, wraiths, werewolves, ghouls, every dark thing that skulks in a cave or empty hold, everything the vampires are too haughty to really associate with (even though they might have used them as fodder in the past). Vampires might actually have to resort to their living minions as Nagash's necromancy would override any control they have over dead ones.
wights, wraiths, ghouls, and 'every dark thing that skulks in a cave' are already well represented by the current Vamp counts book. I see no reason not to just stick him in there. It's missing some of the war-machines he uses (though, if we're considering him a FW 'storm of magic' type addition, then FW could add those as well), but otherwise everything described in his latter-day armies is there - the zombies, skeletons, wights, ghosts, hordes of zombies, etc.

Of course, he still has worshipers among the TK, Arkhan most notably. Perhaps doing him up as a Storm of Magic monster available to either TK or Vamp Counts armies?


Then again, the current fluff builds him up as more of a godlike presence, grown too great to be embodied within his old mortal form, and I don't necessarily mind him that way. If that's the direction the plot goes, than a discrete Nagash model would be about as nonsensical as a model for 'Tzeentch' or 'Slaanesh'.

BigbyWolf
18-05-2013, 13:10
Then again, the current fluff builds him up as more of a godlike presence, grown too great to be embodied within his old mortal form, and I don't necessarily mind him that way. If that's the direction the plot goes, than a discrete Nagash model would be about as nonsensical as a model for 'Tzeentch' or 'Slaanesh'.

This is the biggest issue. He really should be too powerful to be used in standard games. I think the only realistic chance is if there's a FW campaign book similar to Tamurkhan for him.

malisteen
18-05-2013, 13:44
I think Storm of Magic, or whatever it's called, is the right place for Nagash. The fluff works - 'only when the winds of magic rage into a maelstrom is there enough energy to allow even a fraction of Nagash's great spirit to manifest within the immortal remnants of his terrible physical form' or something like that - as does the leaning towards big games that comes with the 'here, have a pile of extra points on top of your normal points' gimmick. It would also give room for Nagash to weigh in with the emperor dragons or exalted greater daemons, which feels like the right scale for him. Plus it would let you give him some really over-the-top magical abilities fitting with the Storm of Magic megaspells and such.

Seriously, Nagash is a giant monster who is also a super wizard. that just screams 'Storm of Magic' to me.

pippin_nl
18-05-2013, 18:13
Changed your ideas slightly:

Nagash the Great Necromancer (Infantry, Special Character) 600 points
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 6 6 5 5 5 5 5 10

Magic: Nagash is a Level 4 Wizard. He has Loremaster (Vampires, Death, and Nehekhara). He must be your army's General.

Special Rules: Terror, Undead, The Great Necromancer, Vampire

Magic Items:
Mortis, the Great Blade of Death
Black Armour of Nagash
Book of Nagash
Staff of Power

The Great Necromancer. Reroll any '1' while casting a spell from the Lore of Vampires or Lore of Nehekhara. Core units gain an extra D6 models when a spell from either Undead Lore is cast on them and they can go beyond their original size.

Mortis, the Great Blade of Death. Wightblade, no armour saves allowed

Black Armour of Nagash. Heavy Armour, 5+ Ward save, -1 to hit, -1 to wound, any effect causing multiple wounds or instant death will cause a single wound instead, this includes miscast effects and crumbling.

Books of Nagash. Whilst Nagash has the Books of Nagash, his Wizard Level is increased to 5, he can't lose wizard levels or spells. If the Book of Nagash is ever destroyed, Nagash immediately loses a Wizard Level.

Staff of Power. The staff allows Nagash to channel power dice on a 5+. In addition, he may reroll one die when he rolls for the Winds of Magic.

ARMIES OF UNDEAD - Army Selection
Nagash commands the legions of undeath like no other. Thus, any army that has Nagash as its General may select units (following normal unit restrictions) from both Warhammer Armies: Vampire Counts and Warhammer Armies: Tomb Kings. When Nagash is slain, use the Slain General rule under Generals of Undeath in Warhammer Armies: Vampire Counts, but all units must roll 3d6. Note that all spells and effects that target Undead units also includes Nehekharan Undead units.

Sexiest_hero
18-05-2013, 19:09
He's a demigod at this point, Maybe the might of the remaining slaan, council of 13, or High elf with the plot sword of theirs could stand up to him.

Juicy21
18-05-2013, 20:32
Dear GW..

Lett MATT WARD design the rules for him.

Give this Nagash char a 2+ ward vs all Highelves...

Would be epix payback



p.s i dont play vamp/tombkings but i just love to see some Highelves cry..