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Grendel rat
25-05-2013, 06:49
So, I just faced my skaven off against a slann for the first time. My friend ran him behind a horde of forty saurus. I hit him with two st 10 blasts from a warp lightning cannon, shot three doom wheel shots into him @ st 10. Damn 2+ ward save let nothing through. Doom wheel close combat did jack to him. We did find out later that he only has a 4+ ward save in close combat. Still pretty hard dead toad to crack. Any thoughts or advise for killing this hateful slann?

BlackPawl
25-05-2013, 09:10
So, I just faced my skaven off against a slann for the first time. My friend ran him behind a horde of forty saurus. I hit him with two st 10 blasts from a warp lightning cannon, shot three doom wheel shots into him @ st 10. Damn 2+ ward save let nothing through. Doom wheel close combat did jack to him. We did find out later that he only has a 4+ ward save in close combat. Still pretty hard dead toad to crack. Any thoughts or advise for killing this hateful slann?

A lone slann behind a big unit?

Ok, against a 2+ ward you will not gain much with shooting, so feed his big block of saurus warriors your slaves and shoot your WLC into him.

Then try:

* Magic:
The 13th spell: he is infantry, so a successful spell will kill him without any protection
Crack's Call: he is only Ini 2, so it will succeed in 66% (without a save)
Skitterleap a Warlock with a bronze sphere next to him - with a hit from the sphere he will also test on his Ini (get some black coaches with it in my last game against vampires)

* Close Combat:
You can skitterleap a warlord / chieftain next to him, so he can try to attack him next round.
But also a unit of gutter runners and / or assassin coming from behind can work. He is only a WS2, T4 4+ with just one S3 attack.
Catch him with a fast unit of rats / slaves, even 20 slaves are a threat to him (+3 combat resolution through ranks against his +1 with banner)

ElBeaver
25-05-2013, 09:52
Kill all other units and block him with chaff or tarpit the unit.

quina2525
25-05-2013, 10:01
Just get him into close combat. The slann has one attack, and his poor ws and strength, he's not killing anything. Then either beat him down or beat him with static combat res and run him down.

BlackPawl
25-05-2013, 10:34
The "normal build" will be a slann with stubborn crown and maybe standard of discipline, so he will not run easily (ld 8 or 9 with 3d6, drop highest). But even slaves will get one wound through some time (0,66 per round). A unit of 12+ giant rats will get 1,33 wounds through - and that are only 53 points.

If he is also etheral this will be a problem in close combat, but this could be easily countered by some of our magic attacks (every hero can get a 5 point magic weapon or even a warp pistol will get magical attacks), plague cencer bearer etc.

FatTrucker
25-05-2013, 14:08
Gutter runners, slings, poison. If he's hiding behind a horde, ambush your gutter runners and jump out behind him.
If he's ethereal just stick a cheap magic weapon on your unit champ.

Grendel rat
25-05-2013, 16:23
Thanks for the advise. Ill run some stuff into him today and try to pop him.

Zoolander
25-05-2013, 17:42
Agree with others. The trick to being an effective shooter is knowing what to shoot. In this case, anything with a 2+ward is a waste of your shooting. Find other targets and get him into CC.

Grendel rat
26-05-2013, 04:59
Okay, 2000 pt rematch tonight. Dreaded 13th on first magic phase and turned the slann into a rat. Now i need an answer for the salamander units and that saurus horde. I will try the rat dart re-direct trick on them (saurus) next game. He roasted my bell unit till it was pretty much useless. My whole shooting was a waste of time. Both cannons never landed a hit except for the rats they killed. Doom wheel got into the saurus and died. All my template Death globe and brass orb scattered off or killed rats. Doom rocket flew wildly off course and didn't do crap. The only thing that new and good i did was that i had 4 chieftains in my bell unit. Those saurus had a harder time killing them. What about a hell pit for them saurus? He will just get roasted by the salamanders. Any more advise out there for me?

russellmoo
26-05-2013, 05:15
Use the doomwheel against the salamanders- you don't even have to run into them, just get close enough for the lightning to fry them- plus the doomwheel isn't going to care much about getting hit by their flame attack-

Grendel rat
26-05-2013, 06:08
He brought two units of salamanders with three salys per. Did have one doom wheel. It got wasted by the saurus. Do you think furnace with monks or just monks. I have to hit the saurus harder. Monk death star horde of death plague banner?

here is the list i used tonight. Next game is 2500.

grey seer skalm, dispel scroll, bell 13 th, cloud of corruption, poison and death frenzy.
chieftain BSB Banner of +d3 to combat res.
chieftain
chieftain
chieftain
Warlock eng doom rocket
Warlock eng brass orb
assassin
72 clan rats with fire explode fire thrower. Shields, full command
50 slaves
40 slaves
7 poison wind globadiers with boss and death globe.
Warp cannon x2
doom wheel

Lizards as i can remember were

Slann
40 saurus
10 skirmish skinks with pipes x4
10 chemelion skinks
three salamanders with 12 handlers x 2
a hero level skink bsb with the saurus
a named skink sniper with the chamelion skinks

meeting engagement diagonal board. Lots of buildings and forests.


Skaven get first set up and turn.
Movement: made plenty of mistakes

magic: 13th the slann and skink unit in a building first thing then got the 13 off 2 more times. Good magic!

shooting, cannon blew up. Second cannon shot st 10 and template through my slaves.
the globadiers have the brass orb warlock with them none worked tonight.

combat had the chieftains so the saurus couldnt chew through my bell rats so fast assassin in there to pop out. By the time i got the big bell in it was so chewed up i was happy to have it survive the game. he sent six flames through me for two turns before i could make much happen. Came out to a draw.

2500 next week i need them salamanders out of there by turn two.

thoughts?

Grendel rat
26-05-2013, 06:44
Here is what I'm thinking for next time. Re direct saurus with giant rats to a spot for flank charge from monks. 13 th the Slann. Globe eng in with the globadiers again. Park the small clan rat unit to baby sit the cannons. Chieftains to soak attacks on bell unit.



++ skaven2500 (2496pts) +++
+++ 2500pt Skaven Roster (Standard)) +++


Selections:


Skaven (Standard) Selections:


+ (No Category) + (46pts)


* Giant Rats (23pts)
5x Giant Rats (15pts), Packmaster (8pts)




* Giant Rats (23pts)
5x Giant Rats (15pts), Packmaster (8pts)




+ Lords + (495pts)


* Grey Seer (495pts)
Dispel Scroll (25pts), Skalm (30pts), Skaven Spells of Plague, Skaven Spells of Ruin, The Screaming Bell (200pts)




+ Heroes + (262pts)


* Chieftain (97pts)
Banner of the Under-Empire (25pts), Battle Standard Bearer (25pts), Shield (2pts)




* Chieftain (55pts)
Shield (2pts), Warplock Pistol (8pts)




* Warlock Engineer (45pts)
Doomrocket (30pts)




* Warlock Engineer (65pts)
Brass Orb (50pts)




+ Core + (728pts)


* Clanrats (378pts)
Clawleader (8pts), Musician (4pts), Standard Bearer (8pts), Warpfire Thrower (70pts)
* 64x Clanrats (288pts)
64x Shield (32pts)




* Clanrats (150pts)
20x Clanrats (80pts), Warpfire Thrower (70pts)




* Skavenslaves (100pts)
50x Skavenslaves (100pts)




* Skavenslaves (100pts)
50x Skavenslaves (100pts)




+ Special + (485pts)


* Plague Monks (405pts)
Bringer-of-the-Word (10pts), Musician (5pts), Plague Banner (30pts), 50x Plague Monks (350pts), Standard Bearer (10pts)




* Poisoned Wind Globadiers (80pts)
5x Poisoned Wind Globadiers (50pts)
* Bombadier (30pts)
Death Globe (25pts)




+ Rare + (480pts)


* Doomwheel (150pts)




* Doomwheel (150pts)




* Warp Lightning Cannon (90pts)




* Warp Lightning Cannon (90pts)






Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

BlackPawl
26-05-2013, 09:08
It can work with skaven weapons or not. I have seen units to be eleminated by a hit from a WFT or - like the last game - explode by the first shoot with a misfire result.

That you did not hit the with your WCL / orb / doomrocket means not that it will not work the next time. ;)

I would drop the small clanrat unit, give the grey seer the dual blades (so he is harder to hit in close combat), take a PWM for the globadiers and maybe try the stormbanner to try to eleminate the skinks / salamander for one round (but it is a risk because you can have the effect in your own round too.

Maybe even try to get a HPA - S3 fire attacks are not so dangerous against a T5 monster.

The French Guy
26-05-2013, 10:18
Hi!
I would drop champions off monks and clanrats, would also turn the 20 clanrats into 10 stormvermins (could still protect your cannons from chaffs, give you another WFT) cause cost 10pts less.
Not sure on the globadier champion, you could have 5 more instead, poison wind mortar could be great.

If chieftains works for you ok, but I would add more rats instead.
I would give magic items instead of magic banner to the BSB.

A hell pit abomination would be awesome, I know I would drop doomwheels for it, but personnal preference here.
Hope it helps!

Grendel rat
26-05-2013, 14:21
@ black pawl: you're right, dropped every rat that failed me last game. He will be bringing that blade that is leadership test ordie against the furnace or bell. Gutter runner have failed me in the past. Ive never run giantrats either.

+++ skaven furnace/bell (2499.5pts) +++
+++ 2500pt Skaven Roster (Standard)) +++


Selections:


Skaven (Standard) Selections:


+ (No Category) + (46pts)


* Giant Rats (23pts)
5x Giant Rats (15pts), Packmaster (8pts)




* Giant Rats (23pts)
5x Giant Rats (15pts), Packmaster (8pts)




+ Lords + (495pts)


* Grey Seer (495pts)
Dispel Scroll (25pts), Skalm (30pts), Skaven Spells of Plague, Skaven Spells of Ruin, The Screaming Bell (200pts)




+ Heroes + (386pts)


* Chieftain (97pts)
Banner of the Under-Empire (25pts), Battle Standard Bearer (25pts), Shield (2pts)




* Plague Priest (289pts)
Flail (4pts), Plague Furnace (150pts), Skaven Spells of Plague, Wizard Level 2 (35pts)




+ Core + (809.5pts)


* Clanrats (409.5pts)
Clawleader (8pts), Musician (4pts), Standard Bearer (8pts), Warpfire Thrower (70pts)
* 71x Clanrats (319.5pts)
71x Shield (35.5pts)




* Skavenslaves (100pts)
50x Skavenslaves (100pts)




* Skavenslaves (100pts)
50x Skavenslaves (100pts)




* Stormvermin (200pts)
Standard Bearer (10pts), Storm Banner (50pts), 10x Stormvermin (70pts), Warpfire Thrower (70pts)




+ Special + (513pts)


* Gutter Runners (108pts)
Two hand weapons
* 6x Gutter Runners (108pts)
6x Poisoned Attacks (30pts), 6x Slings (6pts)




* Plague Monks (405pts)
Bringer-of-the-Word (10pts), Musician (5pts), Plague Banner (30pts), 50x Plague Monks (350pts), Standard Bearer (10pts)




+ Rare + (250pts)


* Hell Pit Abomination (250pts)
Warpstone spikes (15pts)






Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

Grendel rat
26-05-2013, 15:20
Ill let y'all know how it shakes down. Thanks for the advise!

Grendel rat
02-06-2013, 16:00
So i ran it just like the above list. I did take a doom wheel with the HPA. Don't remember what i dropped for it. Crushing victory for the rats. He brought that thing on his slann that negates all sixes rolled. So no 13th. he did manage to suck the slann into the void turn two with a miss cast. Saurus vs monks and HPA wiped them off the board in one combat. Storm banner kept the salamanders and skinks useless for two turns. Had my way with lizards in magic after the slann died. Magic turn three, i got four spells off. Plague, cloud, plague breath and wither. Was pretty devastating. Thanks again for the tips i think it really turned the tide for me on this one. 3000 next what should I add?

BlackPawl
03-06-2013, 07:50
If you don't want to play him any longer take 3 HPA's ... :D

Depends on you, but I would take another Gutter runner unit, a Doomwheel, one more Slave or take some more stormvermins so that this unit will alos be a (small) dangerous unit and maybe a cannon.

Myster2
04-06-2013, 21:57
Remember salamanders are only a str single 3 hit per model the template is over. What is an aboms toughness? 6?

I play lizardmen and lost a game pretty handily vs the first skaven opponent I played. I'm still analyzing what I could do better but let me list out what I think he did to win.
1) 1st target was the slann unit, he lowered it down to about 12 models then irresistibly cast the dreaded 13th on the unit. (Tip here: If the Slann has beclaming cognition it is only a 24" range, which means you can stand just outside of the 24" range of the Slann and target the corner of the unit instead).
2) Second target was any large beasts, he focused his cannons on them.
3) To kill salamanders he used an abom on one side and a furnance on the other. He waited until my big unit of saurus was tied up with slaves to run past into the salamanders.

Grendel rat
07-06-2013, 05:21
I kinda like the idea of three HPAs. Guess you use them like monstrous cav..

dementian
10-06-2013, 17:30
How was that Slaan having a 2+ ward to your WLC?

You don't think you are being cheesy enough D13thing him every magic phase that you now want to take 3 HPA? Jeeze I feel like we should be advising the LM player how to deal with all this OP skaven **** you are bringing lol

Myster2
11-06-2013, 20:16
How was that Slaan having a 2+ ward to your WLC?

You don't think you are being cheesy enough D13thing him every magic phase that you now want to take 3 HPA? Jeeze I feel like we should be advising the LM player how to deal with all this OP skaven **** you are bringing lol

A slann can take a plaque that gives them a 2+ ward save against all shooting. Slann specific magic item in the lizardmen book.

Spiney Norman
13-06-2013, 17:25
Wow, I think your opponent needs a lesson in how to use Lizardmen, he really needs to give his Slann becalming cogitation, you won't be getting dreaded 13th off then. Try casting a 25+ spell when all your casting rolls of 6 get discarded.

To be totally fair, its his own fault for running the Slann solo really, the toad really ought to be bunkered safely in the midst of 30 temple guard.

Grendel rat
15-06-2013, 03:06
He is just starting his lizard army. I expect to see as hard a list as can be scraped together next time. Double slann. One death/shadow and one life. One sniper skink. A big saurus on a horse lizard with the blade of reality. Eff all that over powered unfair list crap. Ive seen leadership bomb daemons (old daemons not the newest book) get crushed by bretonnia. Thats just how we, me an the lizard guy, play. I am working on a list for my first tournament that i am really trying not to make over powered. A hard thing to make, a list that is competative yet "fair".