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Mannfred
25-05-2013, 08:04
Hi edited the list somewhat: very happy to continuely make changes. Need options that are favourable vsing High Elves. Looking into the chariot option.

Dreadlord
Dark Pegasus
Heavy Armour
Lance
Shield
Sea Dragon Cloak
Pendant of Khaeleth
Crown of Command
Dragonhelm

High Sorceress
Level Four Wizard
Sacrificial Dagger

Master
Cold One
Heavy Armour
Lance
Sea Dragon Cloak
Shield
Ring of Darkness

Death Hag
Cauldron of Blood

45 Spearmen
Shields
Full Command

3x12 Crossbowmen
Shields
Musician

2x5 Harpies

20 Blackguards of Naggarond
Full Command
Banner of Murder

12 Cold One Knights
Full Command
Null Talisman

Hydra
Hydra

Still with 170pts to go. I know ring of darkness is perhaps odd choice but im guranteed to face 8 bolt throwers so ill need the help. At the moment i suppose the moment is to rush forward hence dropping the bolt throwers. Im really tossing between chariots, another mage or shades and assassin to put pressure on turn one. I cant see dark riders as competitive very open to education thank you plenty for the lecture....

immortal git
25-05-2013, 10:45
well you dont have a horde of witch elves so it could be harder.

BlackPawl
25-05-2013, 10:52
The sacrifice dagger, the dreadlord with a dark pegasus and a unit of corsairs with the frenzy banner should also be included.

Knifeparty
25-05-2013, 11:54
I don't think this list comes close to being one of the hardest Dark Elf lists.

The Dread Lord load out is really bad. He has no hitting power, and regen doesn't stack with ward saves anymore, so giving him both is redundant. He should be mounted on a dark Pegasus so he can fly into enemy units and hold them up all game. You should give him something like: Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armour, Soul Render, Dragon Helm, Pendant of Khaleth, Crown of Command.

The level 4 needs a sacrificial dagger and talisman of preservation. Give her Lore of Death or Shadow.

There needs to be a level 1 or level 2 scroll caddy possibly with guiding eye and put into crossbows to allow them one turn to re-roll missed hits on a pivotal turn. Give her lore of fire or metal to take out regen or monstrous cavalry.

Taking the ring of hotek on a single guy who costs around 200-250 points is a giant waste. The ring isn't like it used to be, and there's a reason no one takes it now. If you are really intent on taking it, then take a unit of Cold One Knights and put it on the champion.

Assassins are giant a giant and inefficient waste of points. You could buy another hydra with the cost of an Assassin, especially since you've kitted out your assassin to do literally nothing. If you gave him extra hand weapon, rune of khaine, touch of death, and Black Lotus, then at least he'd be able to killing blow some enemy characters at a whopping 171 points. Your assassin *might* get into combat do like 2 wounds at strength 4 and then die.

20 Black Guard will die extremely quickly especially since it's your only combat unit other than the hydras (no, spears don't count as a combat unit as they will never actually win combat against anything worth while) . Black Guard as a whole aren't bad, but they are maxed out at 20 which means they will die over the course of about 2 turns.

2 Hydras are fine but you are relying way too much on these guys to be your heavy lifters. These 2 are the only strength 5 attacks you have in this army, and in an age of Skullcrushers and Mournfang, thats not saying much. These guys are great for taking on hordes and like, but put them up against anything with a 1+/2+ armour save and they will crumble pretty quickly.

Bolt throwers are terrible for Dark Elves. The only reason you see High Elf players take them now is because they got a massive points reduction. I would advise against taking them, however with the proliferation of Monstrous Cavalry in the game, Bolt throwers aren't as bad as they used to be. Just don't expect them to work miracles.

This is a 3000 points game? This list is tiny. I take more units at 2200 point tournaments. There are so many great units in the Dark Elf book and you are utilizing almost none of them.

40 executioners will put a massive dent into any armour you may come across i.e.: Empire and Warriors of Chaos armies, of which you see plenty.

40 Witch Elves with the banner of murder will put any light armoured unit through a blender.

40 Corsairs with the sea dragon banner will be good if you take shadow and plan to mindrazor them.

12 Cold One Knights (possibly with a BSB with the Hydra Banner) I never leave home without these guys. The massive amount of damage they do is actually astonishing, these guys are the single most hard hitting cavalry unit for their price. I would argue because of hatred they actually can hit harder than Blood Knights at half the cost.

Cold One Chariots are good investments too. But need to be taken in pairs.

You should consider getting the banner of eternal flame on one unit to take out regenerating units such as your hydras.

You also have no magical attacks to take on etherial units.

What is your army's breaking point? How many banners do you have because I only count 2, one on your black guard and one on your bsb. If you play Blood and Glory you've already lost the scenario.

You need more units that will make a difference on the battle field. Strength 3 doesn't win games. Crossbows are great and all but think about this. Most of the time you're hitting on 5's. Thats 1/3 of the shots hit, and then against toughness 4 thats 1/3 shots that wound. Meaning before saves you're average enemy unit is taking 4.356 wounds out of 40 shots, that number goes up to roughly 6 wounds before armour saves against anything toughness 3. Does that seem points efficient to you? For a unit that costs 400 points I would expect a much larger damage output. I would suggest splitting this unit into multiples, or buying them shields so they can at least tank enemies that come to close.

My assumption was that you are taking a Shadow mage and trying to mind razor stuff. That's fine, and that tactic can work and has worked on me in the past. However I will caution against relying on this to pull your ass out of the fire. There are many determining factors when using spells, you could roll double ones for winds of magic, you could not get the spell when rolling, you could not meet the casting value, and your sorceress could die before you even have the chance to cast it.I think when it comes down to it, I would much rather have a unit that I know can win combat for me by it's self than needing to rely on a spell to win for me.

I know this all sounds a bit harsh and I promise I wasn't trying to be. You just wanted a hard list and I'm telling you what you have isn't it. Good Luck.

Mannfred
25-05-2013, 12:46
No no thank you very much for the advice but yes the tailoring is to be done against a High Elf army no need to worry about all comers. The assassin and shade combo was just for first turn charge cause i can't really think of a way to negate the shooting power of 8 bolt throwers....the knights i can take not a problem.

Yesh i see the sound knowledge in taking the knights cause i won't have to be relying on magic and yes magic lately has never done the job for me which is why i've switched into the black guard. But yesh i guess horde witch elves will take Swordmasters to the blender - believe their i6 so they'll go before the SMs.

Kain187
25-05-2013, 19:41
40 spears is a little much- reduce to 30 imo
40 xbowmen is a waste as well- i would change to 2 units of darkriders(once you get good with them their the best core in the book) and 2 units of 10 xbowmen
4 harpies is ok but since you will have the dark riders i would knock down to 2 max
remove the hotek on peg guy
bump the 6 shades to 10 shades and add stars and manbane to your assasin- on that pesky frost phoenix u will be hitting with 3 str 7 attacks hitting on 2s- same with any tough 5 guys too
Black guard are fine throw the 5 ward on them and make sure your giving them cover save with your harpies so they are shooting your harpies at -1 to hit or your bg at -2
i would change the two bolt throwers to 2 coldone chariots
If you know your going vs maidens 2 hydras is a waste- instead of the chariots you could drop a hydra and 2 bolt throwers for 35ish witches- With the remove of the ring of hotek guy and the bolt throwers u might be able to fit chariots and witches.

Dont underestimate dark magic as well- A dark magic caster with a sac dagger will put in more work than a shadow caster vs elves any day of the week- you can 1 dice most spells than sac for a second die if you didnt roll a 6

Mannfred
26-05-2013, 08:11
Yeah lore of magic is also tearing at me too...im really liking shadow but i do have to admit, dark does infact like play well, my only concern is that swordmaster death star with world dragon banner that im sure will frustrate me immensly

Kain187
26-05-2013, 19:46
Well your 35-40 witches depending on what you go with because with the removal of the items i suggested you will have plenty of point to play with. Charge with witches and cast word of pain giving them ws 1. So their hitting your witches on 5s. Your witches will eventually kill the entire unit. 1st round your doing about 18 wounds on avg if you have the armor piercing banner in the unit. Then they do about 9 back and you break them. Also you will need a dispel scroll so i would just add a lev 2 of shadow with a dispel scroll.

Yanos666
01-06-2013, 14:14
As a primarily DE player, I would suggest that the Cold Ones and the Executioners are essential but the Execs require the Hag BSB with the ASF banner. And they will lay waste to anything and everything they get into combat with! I use a unit of 29 + the BSB as a horde.

Also with regards to magic as standard my army is led by an lv4 sorc using Lore of Death, an it is brilliant just snipe out all the nasty characters in your opponents army! Then start on his monsters!

Backed up by my favourite unit 19xbows with shields and full command (so can reform from 2x10 to 5x4 for melee) led by an lv2 sorc either using fire or metal. Equipped with dispel scroll and the guiding eye! Let you opponent get close before using the eye! Those 2 lores are great if you roll blades of aiban or flaming swords then you are sorted! I prefer lore of fire as all of its spells are usefull in this unit metal less so but I have had some good luck with it in the past.

I avoid lore of shadow, I find it useless against horde armies unless you get the right spells, death/dark/fire fit DE really well as they'ree all outright offenssive :)

Cobra
13-06-2013, 04:23
I would hardly call shadow useless against hordes when you can lower their stats by d3 with 3 different spells, charge them with one of our units with alot of attacks and mindrazor them or if they have low initiative you can pit of shades them. You can also lower their initiative with miasma and pit them (which is hard to do I admit). Regarding the list I would put a magic weapon on the DL probably the whip dont forget you get an extra attack and armor piecing. I would also get rid of some RXBs or one of the hydra for some witches or if you need the core points corsairs. Both of those synergize well with a cauldron and shadow magic.