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Dark Primus
28-05-2013, 00:07
Following a trend here that each amy seems to be getting one BIG model, the Riptide for the Tau and of course the even taller Wraithknight. And the Imperial Guard codex is still far away and no rumors/very little rumors about them exists, assume they also will get one big model,
1. What do you think it will be?
2. What would you want it to be?

1. Knowing GW for Imperial Guard I would guess a big walker with high armor value or a tank almost the same size as Baneblade.
2. I have no idea as I currently lack creative ideas of my own on IG.

Vaktathi
28-05-2013, 00:18
Honestly, it already exists, I'd be surprised if the Baneblade did not become a codex unit. The Wraithknight is already sporting stats on par with several Apocalypse Gargantuan Creatures (sporting similar Strenght, Toughness, Wounds, WS, I think A, and Sv to Heirodules and Harridans). That line has officially been crossed, and what better way to sell more Baneblades than to make them a codex unit.

Personally I'm of the opinion that things like that should stay out of normal games, but I'd be surprised at this point if the Baneblade is not included in the next Imperial Guard codex.

Mage
28-05-2013, 00:18
Probably some sort of mini titan or 'knight' or massive sentinel. I mean, the big in the previous armies which now have big bigs: Nemesis Dreadnight is basically an 'evolved' dreadnoght with a living pilot outside a 'coffin', a Riptide is a really big battle suit, and a Wraith Knight is a really big Wraithlord. Using that pattern and an assumed lack of imagination on GW's part, it will probably be a bigger version of something already in the army, and nothing majorly different, more derivative.

HereComesTomorrow
28-05-2013, 00:19
It'll likely just be the Babeblade moving to the main book and out of Apoc only.

It might get reboxed with varient main guns.

Blempoll
28-05-2013, 00:21
Guard was the playtest army for what 5th ed dexes became.

So when the 6th ed one is released, i bet there will be stuff in it that will come into play for 7th.

Minsc
28-05-2013, 00:23
Tau and Eldar got BIG things.
Chaos Space Marines*, Dark Angels and Chaos Daemons however, did not.
(*No, the Fiends do not count, they're as big as tanks, not BIG.)

By all means, wishlist away, but you should not expect/demand a BIG thing for every new army, because they won't all get one.

M@L@L
28-05-2013, 00:30
You know, not all big bigs need to be walkers. Course, I mostly say that because I dread the blatant Star Wars ripoff which would come of an IG walker.

Carnage
28-05-2013, 00:37
Honestly, it already exists, I'd be surprised if the Baneblade did not become a codex unit. The Wraithknight is already sporting stats on par with several Apocalypse Gargantuan Creatures (sporting similar Strenght, Toughness, Wounds, WS, I think A, and Sv to Heirodules and Harridans). That line has officially been crossed, and what better way to sell more Baneblades than to make them a codex unit.

Personally I'm of the opinion that things like that should stay out of normal games, but I'd be surprised at this point if the Baneblade is not included in the next Imperial Guard codex.

Hit the nail on the head here. Of course there's inherent flaws with the vehicle rules that basically cap out vehicle survivability at land raider levels. I mean, without structure points, how can you make a vehicle tougher then a LR? A baneblade is likely to be 14/13/12 (I think) with 5+ hull points....but that won't stop a single melta-gun or bomb from smoking it. You can throw on flare shields, cermite armor, extra armor, give it an invulnerable save...etc, but it just gets gimmicky at that point.

Fear Ghoul
28-05-2013, 00:42
An Imperial Knight seems like the obvious addition to an Imperial Guard codex, even though Adceptus Mechanicus should really have their own separate list.

Dark Primus
28-05-2013, 00:59
I would be slightly disappointed if the IG only got the Baneblade in their new codex but not surprised to be honest. I would still not buy it.

jason_sation
28-05-2013, 01:04
Deathblade. It'll be a Baneblade with a Deathstrike missle equipped into it. Or a giant mechanical Catachan.

Lyonator
28-05-2013, 01:24
It'll be a tank.
Whether it will be a 'more legal' Baneblade or something else, dunno, but it won't be a walker.

El_Machinae
28-05-2013, 01:40
It shouldn't be anything new. Imperial technology has been similar for thousands of years. If they had a new type of weapon system, it just wouldn't make sense.

M@L@L
28-05-2013, 01:48
It shouldn't be anything new. Imperial technology has been similar for thousands of years. If they had a new type of weapon system, it just wouldn't make sense.

But given the current MO, it's still gonna happen. ;p Just saying.

JWhex
28-05-2013, 03:14
A baneblade is just a stupid idea for 40k because of its size, so yeah, IG will probably get a baneblade or equally dumb imperial knight.

Malagor
28-05-2013, 05:32
I do like how 2 out of 5 armes that got a big model somehow makes it a trend.
Anyway, IG is known for big guns so if they do get any, it will probably be a tank. Maybe not a baneblade but something inbetween.

Kakapo42
28-05-2013, 05:46
As an alternate idea that doesn't seem to have been considered, what if it is not a tank or a walker, but an artillery piece? A sort of mega-basilisk with a huge dora gun-esque siege cannon, that can be switched out for an alternate form of artillery.

Hawkkf
28-05-2013, 07:02
Most likely the Baneblade and its bretheren will see update with Apocalypse2 rumored to be right around the corner. I expect the rules to be a supplement aimed more at being able to use apoc units in standard games. This is pure speculation based on the fact that apocalypse only models dont sell as well as they could since they are used in a more limited number of games.

That being said, there is a lot of ground to cover for guard. We expect redone artillery, hydra, and veteran/stormtrooper kits based on a now aging rumor. There are still plenty of units that need updated besides those.

The problem with new guard stuff is that between the current book and FW options, well its pretty much all been done.

So my opinion is that we will get the things we dont have models for yet as our 'new' kits. It would suit me just fine, as I feel guard should be fighting these new monstrosities the way they do best.. with more main battle tanks, infantry, and artillery then the opponent can count.

Blempoll
28-05-2013, 07:06
It shouldn't be anything new. Imperial technology has been similar for thousands of years.

Like the Storm Talon, Storm Raven, Spartan, Typhon, FellBlade, FellGlaive, Baal Predator, Librarian Dreadnaught and the LR variants that crop up.

Oh wait.. they were all new "old" technology.

GW will make something all new that has been in the imperium for 15k+ years, or even older, as it will make them money to do so.

There is no reason for them to not do like they have for 25 years; Change the fluff to accommodate new models

Blempoll
28-05-2013, 07:11
As an alternate idea that doesn't seem to have been considered, what if it is not a tank or a walker, but an artillery piece? A sort of mega-basilisk with a huge dora gun-esque siege cannon, that can be switched out for an alternate form of artillery.

at this moment i would settle for a griffon model.

but the idea of artillery for guard makes more sense than a new tank that supposedly is older than Titan's Secret Chapter

agurus1
28-05-2013, 07:48
hopefully a damn plastic Colossus Siege Mortar/Medusa! or maybe some flipping plastic Heavy and regular Artillery Carriages! Screw a Baneblade in the regular army list!

Baneboss
28-05-2013, 08:13
I dont want any big walkers. If anything i would like to see tanks. Perhaps a turret.

What i wouldnt mind at all is new infantry options. Blowing "imperatoru akbar!" penal legionaries or Cadet Commissars squad (Rogue Trader units). Perhaps something completely new and funny to use.

MagicHat
28-05-2013, 10:53
1. I can see a Baneblade. Means my 400 points of guardsmen suddenly had 900 ish points. I can already see it... Baneblade, meatshield of 20-30 guardsmen led by a DA librarian with Powerfield generator. Throws prescience on the Baneblade.

2. I can also see and hopes for an Imperial Knight. I would buy that.

El_Machinae
28-05-2013, 11:18
The Baneblade possibility is a neat one. The question I'd have is "what will be the rules"? Is it possible to have a Baneblade using 'regular' 40k rules? Or would the superheavy rules just be shoehorned into the regular rules? It will not die? An invulnerable save? A modification to the vehicle damage chart?

OuroborosTriumphant
28-05-2013, 11:47
If they include the Baneblade, they might nerf it a little to fit into, say 300 points or so (None of the big kits have been over 300 and the current Baneblade is 500), so it might well just have a ton of Hull Points and be vulnerable to meltas. Or it might have a special rule where Explodes! results instead knock 3HP off or a rule where it reduces rolls on the Vehicle Damage chart by 1 (which'd make Explodes less likely, but not impossible from AP2 and AP1 weapons). I'd probably take one of those approaches if I were porting a small super-heavy into 40k.

T10
28-05-2013, 12:03
If the Imperial Guard doesn't get a Leviathan, then GW ain't right in the head.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/10/2/144267_md-Epic%2040k,%20Epic%2040k%20Leviathan,%20Imperial%2 0Guard.JPG

Though they could get some flyers or somehting.

-T10

Escaflowne_Z
28-05-2013, 13:25
As cool as a Leviathan is, I think it is just way too big for a standard 40k game scale. I personally wouldn't want to see a Baneblade. However, what about a Macharius? Bridges the size gape between standard size tanks and the proper superheavy chassis (chassi?) that are out there.

Losing Command
28-05-2013, 14:07
1. A huge gun mounted on 2 little duckfeet :D

2. I hope nothing. So far the HUGE walker models are in armies where they do kinda fit in (except maybe the Dreadknight) so I don't think IG get one. More tank models sounds a lot more likely, and other plastic infantery then Cadians and catachans would be cool to see.

gwarsh41
28-05-2013, 15:07
Tau and Eldar got BIG things.
Chaos Space Marines*, Dark Angels and Chaos Daemons however, did not.
(*No, the Fiends do not count, they're as big as tanks, not BIG.)


CSM already had something huge, the Defiler used to be the second largest model in the game, second to Mr. Monolith and on par with the soul grinder. I would say forgefiend does count. While it may not be huge, I would say it is on par with a riptide when it comes to mass.

Daemons got blight drones, big chariots that can be taken in units, and kept the soul grinder (So big it doesnt have a base!) I only mention blight drones because most people I play comment on the size of them. Each drone is about as big as a daemon prince. (Link for reference (http://i.imgur.com/2TcnGgnh.jpg))

Dark Angels got the **** stick though, they got a big landspeeder.... woo. $65USD for a flying piece of paper. They also got a cool flyer, but it is one of the smallest out there I think.
You might even say that Necrons (owners of the largest model) got several large models in their last book. Triarch stalker is comparable to defiler/soul grinder in size, and the doomsday arc is pretty decent sized as well.


I would argue that every book so far has gotten something *big* that it did not have before. I do not think the size will get any taller, but I would wager that each book will get something that is either on, or about the size of that new oval base. GK, Necrons, CSM, CD, Tau and Eldar all have something already on the base, or too big for it.DA have the Landspeeder, which is about as big as the base, but arguable much smaller than the other big models.

I don't know if IG will get a baneblade, if they did, orks would get a stompa, and I think that would start to get out of hand.

Blinder
28-05-2013, 15:31
Baneblades have been in and out of "regular" sized games for just about ever (the first "big thing" I ever saw people plonk down in a 40k game was, in fact, the old banebade... the guy who owned it was quite happy when the store owner put a stompa together so there was something for it to do other than get bogged down in bodies (and break, I seem to remember complaints about... something... breaking, but that was ages ago so I'm not sure). Then 3rd hit and it went away for a while, then Imperial Armor came out and FW started making their model and it was "back", then IA went out of fashion over the years, then Apoc came and GW started making their model and it was "back" for big messes...

So, I can definitely see it becoming a codex model, rules are already in place to keep it "sane" (any of the rules for super-heavies published since 3rd should work with a little tweaking, and for the uber-models GW doesn't seem to mind adding in extra complexity), it's been set up as *the* symbol of "Guard gonna ruin your day," and it doesn't even have to be *that* scary (not sure what Apoc gave it, but in earlier incarnations it was basically an LRBT on top of a Demolisher with the battlecannon upgraded to an earthshaker... on a giant AV13 target. Sure, you have to 'kill' it 3 times (assuming it keeps 3 HPs) but I half-suspect that if you tossed at least the original IA's version into a game of 6th you'd be at worst underwhelmed for the points... at best, it'd actually work).

Having Griffon and Medusa kits again would be really nice, though, as would a Hydra... as would finding out that they're giving us plastics for the metals that are presumably going to be disappeared! (I get it... that much variety is expensive to support... but to be honest I think a lot of us with not-Cadian collections would be fine having the current sculpts stuck to a sprue and some "guns-and-gunners" kits to choose from... not gonna happen, but still...)

A big walker is about the last thing I'd want to see, though...

Individual8580
28-05-2013, 15:37
They'll get both the Baneblade and an Imperial Knight and 32 new variants of high-strenght low AP large blast chucking vehicles.

Chem-Dog
28-05-2013, 17:37
Hit the nail on the head here. Of course there's inherent flaws with the vehicle rules that basically cap out vehicle survivability at land raider levels. I mean, without structure points, how can you make a vehicle tougher then a LR? A baneblade is likely to be 14/13/12 (I think) with 5+ hull points....but that won't stop a single melta-gun or bomb from smoking it. You can throw on flare shields, cermite armor, extra armor, give it an invulnerable save...etc, but it just gets gimmicky at that point.

Av15+ would be would be the obvious choice, alternate damage tables could be another way of approaching it without getting too gimmicky.


An Imperial Knight seems like the obvious addition to an Imperial Guard codex, even though Adceptus Mechanicus should really have their own separate list.

Knights and Knight Housholds are sufficiently distinct from the Adeptus Mechanicus (as are the Titan Legions and military elements) as a whole to warrant them being included without a presence of the greater AM, as much as I'm a fan of Knights I don't think that they are necessarily valid as a core option for the Imperial Guard. The second Codex:Adeptus Mechanicus is released with it's Knights I'm on it.


I do like how 2 out of 5 armes that got a big model somehow makes it a trend.
Anyway, IG is known for big guns so if they do get any, it will probably be a tank. Maybe not a baneblade but something inbetween.

Don't forget the Tyrgon, that was the starting point for the trend as far as big+ models goes. Check the releases back then and you'll see a frequency in the size and complexity of kits. Others have pointed out that, while not all of the kits are super huge, all have a big footprint or silhouette and, without wanting to send the thread that way, a big price tag. It's certainly a trend that models are getting big.

I await IG developments with interest and trepidation. A new regiment making the most of their plastic skillz would be nice (finally consigning those Catachans to the history books), it would be great if Ogryn made the jump into plastic too.

Vaktathi
28-05-2013, 19:51
With HP's, a BB should be relativley easy to fit into "normal" games actually, as FW has already updated superheavy rules where basically each SP is 3 HP, an Explodes result drops 3HP. So the BB would have 9HP and each explodes result would drop it by 3 (so really....not very hard to kill at all for 500pts if it remains at that level)

MagicHat
28-05-2013, 21:19
With HP's, a BB should be relativley easy to fit into "normal" games actually, as FW has already updated superheavy rules where basically each SP is 3 HP, an Explodes result drops 3HP. So the BB would have 9HP and each explodes result would drop it by 3 (so really....not very hard to kill at all for 500pts if it remains at that level)

I wish that had been in the BYB frankly as the standard vehicle rules.
A world were land raiders doesn't explode to the first melta pointed their way?
I could live with that.

Blempoll
28-05-2013, 21:32
I wish that had been in the BYB frankly as the standard vehicle rules.
A world were land raiders doesn't explode to the first melta pointed their way?
I could live with that.

like they did last and previous editions?

MagicHat
28-05-2013, 22:15
like they did last and previous editions?

Not sure what you mean. 5th edition you could totally blow up a LR with 1 melta, I don't have the 4th, but I am fairly certain you could do it then as well.
If you are talking about super heavies, I believe you could blow them up with one meltagun if you rolled a succession of sixes.

Blempoll
28-05-2013, 22:38
You mentioned living in a world where LR doesnt blow up to melta in one shot.. never happened, never will.

agurus1
28-05-2013, 22:58
The point about the Macharius is good actually. It literally is the evolutionary step between Standard Battle Tank and Superheavy which is what many of these "big" kits have been doing. I for one wouldn't say no to a plastic Macharius Vulcan! Lol

AngryAngel
29-05-2013, 04:04
Just saying, the " bigger is better " is a trend GW has had with fantasy for awhile now. Its just rearing its head in 40k now. I do think the trend will continue. Lets look at who didn't get a huge thing. I'd say only one who didn't was DA at this point. There book was quite tame. Where the old units were brought into useability. I guess their big unit was a big landspeeder ? Chaos got, the Dinobot, which is quite big and uses the oval base. Grey Knights have the DreadKnight, Nids have their super bigs, doesn't mean they won't get more, they will.

Tau the Riptide and WraithKnight for the Eldar. Chaos demons already had some super large kits released ahead of time, like the super chariots for instance, at least the Khorne chariot uses the oval base correct ?

So the level of big, may vary, but it seems finding uses for that oval base is in game design. So I do think the trend is real and will continue. With the guard getting a baneblade like tank, which I'm totally cool with, or some kind of super ogryn behemoth, which oddly enough I would also be totally cool with. We will see however.

MagicHat
29-05-2013, 07:20
You mentioned living in a world where LR doesnt blow up to melta in one shot.. never happened, never will.

I said that if the rules had been explode = 3 HP loss, I could live with that as a LR wouldn't blow up to the first meltagun.

Rabbitden
29-05-2013, 13:34
I think Baneblades and their variants will make it into the next IG codex. This would be a good move for GW to sell more kits and give those 'non-apoc' players a new toy to try in their regular armies. As for 'NEW' big kits, I'd rather see a rotary blade chopper or transport to carry my stormtroopers into battle instead of a big walker straight from Star Wars (we already have sentinels from Return of the Jedi).

For the people that are saying that Daemons haven't got their big+ model yet... don't forget that the new Greater Daemon models haven't been released yet which are rumored to be on par (size-wise) with the FW ones. Their time will come.

gwarsh41
29-05-2013, 14:09
Daemons already had one of the largest models in the game (soul grinder) and just got 3 new models for the large oval base. Khorne, slaanehs, and Tzeentch chariots. I think of all the armies, Daemons can field the most oval bases. If we wanted to, we could take 9 slaanesh chariots (3 units of 3) and 4 khorne chariots (4 heralds) then we could toss on 3 hellflayers of slaanesh. 16 oval bases in one army is crazy.

I am not holding my breath for greater daemons. I havent heard the rumor from any legit sources, and last I looked, most of the rumors that came with that one were false. Though I could see them coming when Apoc 2 is released, but they might have apoc rules. I am completely fine with my horribly powerful MCs being on normal large bases.

tu33y
05-06-2013, 10:22
at this moment i would settle for a griffon model.



dude the FW one is amazing. and anti-FW clownshoes cant moan because its a codex unit. AAANNNDDD its probably about the same price as a plastic one would be!

MajorWesJanson
05-06-2013, 10:41
Honestly, it already exists, I'd be surprised if the Baneblade did not become a codex unit. The Wraithknight is already sporting stats on par with several Apocalypse Gargantuan Creatures (sporting similar Strenght, Toughness, Wounds, WS, I think A, and Sv to Heirodules and Harridans). That line has officially been crossed, and what better way to sell more Baneblades than to make them a codex unit.

Personally I'm of the opinion that things like that should stay out of normal games, but I'd be surprised at this point if the Baneblade is not included in the next Imperial Guard codex.

Baneblade would be pretty easy to convery to normal play, with minimal changes. It has no D-weapons, and only a single gun with a larger template.
Drop the Baneblade Cannon from a S9 AP2 10" blast to a normal large blast, make it a Tank, Heavy with 9 hull points and give it a Superheavy rule
Superheavy: May choose a separate target for each weapon, all of which must be declared at the same time. Firing an ordinance weapon does not make other weapons fire as snapshots. If you roll an explodes result on the vehicle damage chart, instead remove d3 hull points and roll again with no modifiers. May ignore Vehicle shaken on a save of 2+ and vehicle stunned on a save of 4+.