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View Full Version : Getting my Helves back on the Table. 2000pts



Jack Champion
29-05-2013, 20:52
Hey guys,

I've been playing High Elves since 6th edition, but haven't much recently as university has taken priority. Just finished today and looking to get them back on the table with the new rules. I have hammered out a fairly pedestrian list to begin with so I can get used to them fairly quickly. nothing terribly flashy I just want a solid army that can face a variety of opponents so if I take it down to my local I can have some good games. In regards to changes I have access too all the units except the Phoenixes as haven't bought any so can be pretty flexible in replacements, alas I have no White Lions (shock horror) but they are in the pipeline.

Anyway here is my list please comment and criticise to your hearts content! 10 drops as far as I can tell.

Lords

Loremaster - Armour of Silvered Steel, Book of Hoeth. (General)

Heroes

Noble - BSB, Armour of Caledor, Great Weapon.
Mage - Level 2 (High), Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Protection.

Core

Sea Guard (Size 20) - Full Command
Archers (Size 15) - Full Command (For Scenario Purposes)
Ellyrian Reavers - Bows, Musician, Champion.
Ellyrian Reavers - Same as above.

Special
Phoenix Guard (Size 20) - Full Command, Razor Standard
Swordsmasters (Size 10) Full Command (Really not sure about the point of this unit, used to use them as small flankers, but couldn't fit two units of 7 this time)

Rare
Sisters of Averlorn (Size 10) - High Sister
Eagle Claw
Eagle Claw

It all comes to 1994pts so have room for a cheapy magic icon like Ironcurse Icon or something.
What do you think? Thanks for taking the time to look.

UltraTacSgt
30-05-2013, 02:53
I can comment on the Reavers and Swordmasters. I play at lower points (1k or less) as I am a recent convert to WHFB from 40k, but the insights should be applicable enough.

The Reavers are pretty handy, I don't think the champ is that worth it, considering he is 10pts for 1 better BS. Reavers with a musician plus spears and bows though are cheap and effective enough for what they can do. My opponent usually either gives them too much attention by sending a worthy unit after them (in which case I kite around the unit and shoot it up or draw it into a position where my other units can attack it) or they mostly overlook them (which has lead them to literally hand me flank and rear charges from the Reavers themselves or leave the Reavers to shoot and support charge with impunity). They aren't stellar compared to a lot of units but with re-rolling str4 attacks they can do well enough in their intended role.

Swordmasters aren't the most popular unit on the internet, but they have done a great job for me. Yes they die pretty easily with only heavy armor, and the 6+ parry vs ranged is a bit of a gimmick, but they still have two high WS S5 attacks a pop, and their high WS makes them hard to hit for any enemy. I've used 8-9 w/ banner and musician, as well as 5 man pure MSU's. The bigger unit, formed for a small amount of return attacks, can put a pretty strong hit on most enemies, and can usually handle a round of return attacks to fight a second round, barring terrible luck with dice or getting overwhelmed by clearly superior units or multiple enemy units. I've had my big unit hold up against MSU cavalry charges, monstrous creatures, and smaller (30 or less) infantry blocks. The MSU version is great for following around my other units and piling into whatever fight ends up happening. Ideally Swordmasters should be supported or supporting (as with everything High Elves have), but when the battle gets crazy and they end up on their own, you at least know they are putting a good number of high strength attacks onto whatever they are fighting and will go out doing some damage. Whichever flavor you use, have them move around with other units in your battle line and use them the way you probably were using them in previous editions.

I'd consider dropping the Reaver champs, and possibly the SM champ (unless you want a magic weapon or are really keen on the extra attack), and consider putting the points somewhere else.

Hope that helps.

Elyeva
30-05-2013, 07:41
I agree with the option to drop the harbinger from the ER unit, they are not adding that much. Just give them spears, bows and a musician. Consider you save 20 points to spend somewhere else!

Swordmasters work great in small support units (about 10, so fine in this list). As big blocks they are weak in my opinion and White Lions are better then. Manoeuvre them behind buildings etc to protect them from damage from shooting and flank close combat with them. I always take a swordmaster champion with the unit for the extra S5 hit is worth it in my opinion. If you buy an extra body in the unit he only supports with also 1 attack and cost 3 points more than a champion does. But in this case, choose the option you like the most, there is no good or wrong.

Is the High Sister worth her points is something I can ask. Same reason as the reavers, only BS +1. For 10 points it is expensive.

Jack Champion
30-05-2013, 09:37
Thanks for the suggestions, here is a little remix to account for those points:

Lords

Loremaster - Armour of Silvered Steel, Book of Hoeth. (General)

Heroes

Noble - BSB, Armour of Caledor, Great Weapon.
Mage - Level 2 (High), Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Protection.

Core

Sea Guard (Size 20) - Full Command
Sea Guard (Size 20) - Full Command
Ellyrian Reavers - Bows, Musician.
Ellyrian Reavers - Same as above.

Special
Phoenix Guard (Size 20) - Full Command, Razor Standard
Sky Cutter w. Bolt thrower

Rare
Sisters of Averlorn (Size 10)
Eagle Claw
Eagle Claw

This time I've removed the Archers and Swordsmasters to add another solid combat block and a mobile flanker in the form of a skycutter. Not sure its worth the loss of punching power, but does give me a bit more flexibility and more shooting overall. You think its worth it? Im sure there are points left to spend which may go towards ASF on the eagles to make them better mage and warmachine hunters.

KingFerret
30-05-2013, 18:39
I would rather have a single unit of 40 sea guard than two units of 20. I mean really, what is there in an average game that 20 sea guard are ever going to get to fight, that they will beat? And against any reasonably hard hitting foe they will lose steadfast and break exceedingly quickly. That way you also save 30 points from command options. It's also easier to buff a single unit of sea guard, for example with wyssan's wildorm from the loremaster. I personally don't like loremaster's either, much rather have a lvl 4 archmage with shadow. i understand many disagree though so keep it if you like :)

Forsworn
31-05-2013, 06:06
My thoughts:
- Loremaster: Good choice on using the Armor. I haven't tried the "Casting" build, though. My build last time he came out was: Leaping Blade, Golden Crown, Shield of Merwyrm, Potion of Foolhardiness. He definitely gives you amazing utility; I like this guy.
- BSB: Not bad at all.
- Mage: DROP the Talisman. It's a waste of 15 points (sadly). Since a Dispel Scroll is so useful, I'd keep that. As for other items. . . I don't know. I would also consider other lores. Shadow is great, even on a Lvl 2. Metal has some GREAT utility to it. You cannot guarantee Enchanted Blades, though (and that's what you REALLY want). I can see why you wnat High Magic, though.
- I agree on combining the Sea Guard blocks. Another option might be to trade them in for a large Spear Elves block and some Archers.
- Drop the command on the Reavers. You are Fast Cav, you get a million reforms anyway.
- Phoenix Guard: Razor Standard isn't all that great. I think that Banner of Swiftness or Standard of Discipline (M6 OR Ld10) are better buys. Cheaper too.
- Sisters, Skycutter, and Eagle Claws: Haven't tried them yet. I definitely think that there is something to them, these days. Definitely better against Forces of Destruction, but it DOES keep your shooting about even. The Skycutter seems like it might not want the Bolt Thrower. You cannot snipe, and would lose out on one or another of its functions no matter what.

Personally, I think that Sword Masters are better than WL at getting through "vulnerable" infantry, even if it is elite (see: Dwarf Hammerers, Dark Elf Infantry, Great Swords), while White Lions are MUCH better at taking down heavy duty stuff (Shield Chaos Warriors, Ironbreakers, etc). It's more a choice of preference and your own meta.

Elyeva
31-05-2013, 14:25
Why not take High Magic on the lvl 2 mage? Take if possible the hexes and arguments and if lucky you can get a 5+ ward on his unit because of the lore attribute.

When being placed in the combined sea guard unit he can be very strong, and not only because of the spells he can cast, all about the ward safe.

Tau_player001
31-05-2013, 18:03
Personally, I think that Sword Masters are better than WL at getting through "vulnerable" infantry, even if it is elite (see: Dwarf Hammerers, Dark Elf Infantry, Great Swords), while White Lions are MUCH better at taking down heavy duty stuff (Shield Chaos Warriors, Ironbreakers, etc). It's more a choice of preference and your own meta.

It also depends on your list, white lions are more durable against most shooting weapons, and already got stubborn, so you can use them for different purposes than just killing stuff if required. They are different, but WL's are not only about the S6.