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MidnightResistance
10-06-2005, 10:13
A while ago I heard something about plastic scouts.
Was it true and is there a release date?

Lady's Champion
10-06-2005, 10:15
Nah sorry mate it's not true at all... is it?

EDIT: Whoops, sorry, looks like I was wrong

Ah well, my brand new metal scouts were a waste lol

charlie_c67
10-06-2005, 10:18
Rumour has it they'll be out with the BT's. However, with the 6 month rumour window in place no-one's got any concrete proof either way.

MidnightResistance
10-06-2005, 10:30
I'm contemplating an all scout army, so plastic scouts would be...very good

Cloudscape_online
10-06-2005, 10:36
what if GW is slowly making everything plastic, and quietly phasing out the metal models?

Karhedron
10-06-2005, 11:16
Rumours of plastic Scouts abound but hard proof is a little thin on thr ground. Just before old portent went down, one fo the posters mentioned a trip to Lenton and claimed he saw the plastic scouts being worked on. However since I have not seen him since we got back up, I don't know how reliable the claim is.

So far the farthest future release I know of is Assault Terminators scheduled for September. If BTs are scheduled for October/November time then I would guess we will start hearing details of them soon, maybe in the upcoming GDs.

stahly
10-06-2005, 13:23
Hope that they will fit to the metal ones, because except for the rocket launcher guy these models are awesome.
There are just too less poses.

Alpharius
10-06-2005, 13:27
Say, we're within 6 months of Decemeber....

Shouldn't we be seeing "official sneak peeks" of BT stuff, like the oft rumored plastic scouts and Assault Terminators?

I'd say that they don't want to steal the Tyranid's thunder, but, haven't we seen all of the ne Tyranid stuff by now anyway?

x-esiv-4c
10-06-2005, 13:31
I'd have to say that i've always been a big fan of Sniper rifle scout models, I hope they do a good job in re-doing them.

rkunisch
10-06-2005, 13:33
The 6 months frame does not mean that you will hear at once all about the next book when you are within the 6 months. :p It means that on events to come the people of GW are more free to tell and show stuff. I would expect that the next GDs will reveal more details about the BT.

Have fun,

Rolf.

Typheron
10-06-2005, 13:38
did GW not say that some time ago that they wanted to get as much as possable into plastic moulds as there easyer to convert?


I would guess that at some point GW has plans to do a plastic version of the scouts (not counting the really old OOP plastic ones). They did the termis in plastic which are by far a larger job to re-do than the scouts given all the variations of them.

MidnightResistance
10-06-2005, 13:54
Give it a couple of weeks then...

my_name_is_tudor
10-06-2005, 14:22
How can someone be sure they've seen plastic scouts being worked on anyway... surely they could just have been black templars-specific metal scouts.

Still, I'd like to hope they are making plastic scouts..

charlie_c67
10-06-2005, 17:30
The way GW seem to be going is getting all basic troops into plastic, with the reasons SoB, GK's and scouts weren't done was cos various bits (robes, tabards, gribbly bits) couldn't be done justice in plastic at the time. However, technology has moved on and the plastics details with it so things could/should be about to change.

Insane Psychopath
10-06-2005, 17:53
When I am down that the GT heat 1 I'll have a talk with a few people there.

Cthulhu33
10-06-2005, 18:16
I hope this rumour is true cause I love scouts and plactic mor convertable ones with chapter specific heraldry would be great. One question though does anyone know if they are redoing all of the scout line or just the assault squats (those being the most prodiminant ones).

BTW I am more than a little ticked that I have like 40 metal scouts already, I too may have to consider an all scout army if the plastic ones come into fruition. Scouts in a speeder, that sounds nice (and fast)

Brimstone
10-06-2005, 19:09
I've moved the discussion on pricing to it's own thread in other GW discussion.


At least we invaded Iraq for something...

Post spam like that again and you'll earn a yourself a strike.

Great Harlequin
10-06-2005, 19:19
Yup, I think the new scouts will be released with the Black Templar range.

EDIT: It makes sense considering that literally every Black Templar initiate has to be a mentor for a neophyte.

Karhedron
10-06-2005, 19:35
One question though does anyone know if they are redoing all of the scout line or just the assault squats (those being the most prodiminant ones).
Well no one knows for sure if plastic scouts are even going to happen. This is all just speculation at the moment. GW have just finished redoing the existing SM plastics to include more accessories and options. Therefore it seems likely that if they do make plastic Scouts, there will be a variety of options included with them.

But that is just speculation on my part. Sadly I don't have hard facts to share.

Brimstone
10-06-2005, 19:56
If I had to speculate on possible plastic scouts then I'd say they would be like the Terminators coming with a body and main component sprue with weapons on their own.

A Neophyte/scout close combat box would have pistols and cc weapons with variant boxes coming with a ranged weapon sprue sniper rifles, heavy bolter etc.

Rykion
10-06-2005, 19:57
I hope that they do new plastic scouts. I have wanted to do a scout army for a long time, but I hate working with a lot of metal minis. The old plastic scouts weren't very good either.

Delicious Soy
11-06-2005, 05:37
I'd have to say that i've always been a big fan of Sniper rifle scout models, I hope they do a good job in re-doing them.Given the depth of the sniper models, I doubt they'd be able to replicate them, but then again, they are toting their improvements to plastics casting and whatnot, so it may be possible. If it is, plastic renditions of the current SoB line would go down a treat.

Knighty
11-06-2005, 06:22
If I had to speculate on possible plastic scouts then I'd say they would be like the Terminators coming with a body and main component sprue with weapons on their own.

A Neophyte/scout close combat box would have pistols and cc weapons with variant boxes coming with a ranged weapon sprue sniper rifles, heavy bolter etc.

That sounds a bit expensive for GW, producing two plastic boxes for one troops choice that itsn't over-popular.

I'd expect something like the chaos box, a few weapons for each bit not enough to make a full squad of one. For example 3x CC weapons and two sniper rifles in a plastic box of five men. then you have to buy a fwe boxes to get a deacent squad of either.

Hellebore
11-06-2005, 06:44
Or they could release a single core sprue with the ccw and bp arms on it and then a 'command' sprue with sniper rifles, shot guns etc.

hellebore

Brimstone
11-06-2005, 06:47
That sounds a bit expensive for GW, producing two plastic boxes for one troops choice that itsn't over-popular.

It isn't popular because they are expensive to collect, with plastic scouts they will get a lot more use and I'm not proposing two boxes just three sprues, two of which are interchangeable, the main one gets reused.

worldshatterer
11-06-2005, 11:09
Why not something like bolt pistols and ccw and/or bolter on the sprue, to keep them in with the black templars style scouts, and then a sperate lead weapons kit for stuff like shotguns and sniper rifles to make them fit with other chapters?

Rabid Bunny 666
11-06-2005, 11:13
black templar scouts can't have boltguns by the way

Rich
11-06-2005, 11:26
Personally, I very much doubt that they will bother with shotguns now that they have been curtailed by the new rules - their only benefit (move and retain two shots) is now generically in use, so why not take a bolter instead? Higher strength, higher range when you need it, and still two shots at 12" even when you move.

I think we will see b.p's and ccw's, and a couple of sniper rifles. Wouldn't be surprised if you only get one heavy weapon on the sprue, or perhaps none - there being metal models to use for that. I would be more than happy to convert my own/use existing metal models if you had enough sniper rifles in the box to kit out the whole squad.

Rabid Bunny 666
11-06-2005, 11:31
but strength 3 and the ability to shoot and assault

i'd expect scouts about temlar time due to neophytes

Great Harlequin
11-06-2005, 11:33
I think that they will come out in two different box sets. I believe the one will contain all the equipment the Black Templars are allowed to use. So, that would be Close combat weapons pistols and shotguns. Where as the other will contain all the other variations. Bolters, Sniper rifles and Heavy weapons.

hivefleetcarrion
11-06-2005, 13:12
i still dont see the point in 2 boxes, considering every gw store i have been in is really cramoed for space, having 2 boxes when 1 would do doesnt seem practical. i mean de were removed from the shelves because they need space werent they?

if plastic scouts are made, i can see something like chaos spure being made, mostly cc+bp weapons(or whatever black templar use) and possible a sniper rifle. i have a hunch that they wouldnt include the rocket launcher as that model is a brand new blister all by itself

Ruskins
11-06-2005, 13:43
i think what brim meant to say was that they will have 1 box, with one sprue thats just legs torsos and head, another with just arms with bolt pistols, ccw's and maybe a power weapon for the serg, then possibly another sprue that has 5 bolters, 5 shotguns and possibly a few sniper rifles on it.

Inquis. Jaeger
11-06-2005, 15:31
I'm sure, in light of the new range of plastics - Tacs etc - that GW will do a good job of designing the way the sprue is laid out.

The Machine GoD
11-06-2005, 15:35
I'd have to say that i've always been a big fan of Sniper rifle scout models, I hope they do a good job in re-doing them.

If there making plastic scouts for BT's they wont have snipe rifles as BT cant use them.

Brimstone
11-06-2005, 15:37
What I mean is there may be two boxes released at different times.

The first with the BT's to make up neophytes and close combat scouts. The second released further down the line with another codex to make up more shooty orietentated scouts with a weapon sprue replacing the cc weapons/bolt pistol sprue.

Great Harlequin
11-06-2005, 17:23
What I mean is there may be two boxes released at different times.

The first with the BT's to make up neophytes and close combat scouts. The second released further down the line with another codex to make up more shooty orietentated scouts with a weapon sprue replacing the cc weapons/bolt pistol sprue.
No, I don't think they would do that like they have done with the Terminators. From what I gather the scouts have all now been made including the more shooty orientated scouts. I reckon that they will still come out in the same box. Just with two different sprues.

t-tauri
11-06-2005, 18:33
I wouldn't be surprised to see a single sprue with both close combat and shooty options like the CSM sprue. Hopefully with separate plastic sniper rifles for IG conversions.

Inquis. Jaeger
12-06-2005, 02:03
I think a single sprue catering for all options is the most likely. Or one sprue for the bodies/heads/arms etc, then another sprue for the weapons. The basic Scout squad will include both of these possible sprues (1 shooty, 1 CCW). The 'Black Templars Initiate Squad' Box set will include just the basic body sprue and the CCW sprue, as well as the sprues for 10 marines.

hivefleetcarrion
12-06-2005, 08:02
The basic Scout squad will include both of these possible sprues (1 shooty, 1 CCW). The 'Black Templars Initiate Squad' Box set will include just the basic body sprue and the CCW sprue, as well as the sprues for 10 marines.


10 marines/scouts? doesnt the current scout box contain 5 models? it would be very generous of gw to include that many models for that price, though Initiate do play such a large part of bt. i mean the loss of 1 sprue of weapon options for the gain of 5 extra scouts is pretty generous, and i though gw was tring to stay away from make chapter orientated models, just letting games model /convert their own up

i cant see gw including many of the more useful weapons(sniper rifles-well maybe 1, rocket launcher-new model, much more likely to just stay in blister)

a sprue with bolters, shotguns and possiblly a heavy bolter would most likely, + the cc sprue

Nid
12-06-2005, 08:07
Its good to see that plastic scouts are in the works. I mean, all those SM Players NEED them. Not like those silly little side projects that no one cares about, like Ork vehicles, or hell, anything Dark Eldar. Some plastic Gargoyles would have convinced me to buy about 50 of them.

Dante
12-06-2005, 09:56
Its good to see that plastic scouts are in the works. I mean, all those SM Players NEED them. Not like those silly little side projects that no one cares about, like Ork vehicles, or hell, anything Dark Eldar. Some plastic Gargoyles would have convinced me to buy about 50 of them.

Kinda makes sence to release some new models for the Marines along with their Codice, doesnīt it..? Stop bitching already, the Orks and Dark Eldar and wat not will get new models as well, along with their Codex... :rolleyes:

Besides, itīs not even confirmed plastics Scouts are coming! ;)

Agamemnon2
12-06-2005, 10:00
If you can't take GW catering to space marines, you are obviously in the wrong game community. Space Marines will ALWAYS come first. Always. Numerically, one marine release sells way better than most xeno ones.

philbrad2
12-06-2005, 10:35
Its good to see that plastic scouts are in the works. I mean, all those SM Players NEED them. Not like those silly little side projects that no one cares about, like Ork vehicles, or hell, anything Dark Eldar. Some plastic Gargoyles would have convinced me to buy about 50 of them.

C'mon TYRANID05 GW have been pushing more and more towards an all plastic SM army for the last 7-8 years this is another step along that route. So its not like it wasn't going to happen sometime was it? SM players may even get a plastic Vindicator with BT's or one of the other chapter Codices soon. I agree with you on the Gargoyles. I had hoped GW would have done some but t'was not to be. I'd love to field a flying Tyrant/Warrior/Gargoyle/Ripper army.

Ork vehicles will come with the Ork Dex, and if the rumour are proven true are already underway. I think DE are still as LONG way off because GW want a complete revamp of their model line.

:chrome:

Inquis. Jaeger
12-06-2005, 10:39
10 marines/scouts? doesnt the current scout box contain 5 models? it would be very generous of gw to include that many models for that price, though Initiate do play such a large part of bt. i mean the loss of 1 sprue of weapon options for the gain of 5 extra scouts is pretty generous, and i though gw was tring to stay away from make chapter orientated models, just letting games model /convert their own up

i cant see gw including many of the more useful weapons(sniper rifles-well maybe 1, rocket launcher-new model, much more likely to just stay in blister)

a sprue with bolters, shotguns and possiblly a heavy bolter would most likely, + the cc sprue

No-one said anything about 10 marines/scouts or being generous. It's just that it seems very VERY likely a BT Initiate Squad Box Set will be released, what with the Templars getting their own 'Space Wolf style' sprue with personalised bits and pieces on. Therefore I'm theorising a combined Marine/Scout box containing 15 models (10-5 ratio) will be released, costing more than a normal Tac squad, but not as much as a Tac squad box and a Scout squad box (plastic) if bought together

Nid
12-06-2005, 11:06
In Fantasy, there is no one clear race thats supported more than the others. Everyone has near equal support. There is a huge variety in army choices played. In 40k there's 70% marines because of the whole vicious cycle thing. They sell more because they're pimped more because they sell more. You guys can get a squad of scouts for what, $20-30ish? A minimum squad of 8 gargoyles is that much. An effective brood is double the cost of an effective squad. The Ork vehicles havent been overhauled since Gorkamorka. The Dark Eldar were a horrible excuse for an army because GW Half Assed it to sell marines. Come on, 3rd edit starter set. 20 DE Warriors would never be able to compete against 10 marines, much less 10 marines AND a Landspeeder.

Marines seem to have a gazillion codexes and new models coming out every month or two. Dozens of special characters, special poses, special whatevers and now it seems the entire army, with the exception of what, devestators and scouts, and maybe some characters, is all plastic? And all well done? Why do they get a retooled tac squad with all the weapons? And yet the new Warriors in the Tyranid box couldn't even get a whole squads worth of rending talons? The new spine gaunts are a joke too, you'd need so many genestealers in order to field a brood, its disgusting.

And the Eldar Wave Serpent looks like it was designed in almost a week, tops. Eldar players waited that long for a simple CONVERSION because Marines were being pushed so hard.

I'd like to see a marine player HAVE TO USE METAL, OR EVEN HAVE TO CONVERT A MODEL IN ORDER TO USE IT.

GW thinks sloppy when it comes to armies other than Marines. Lets get some equal love around.

Dante
12-06-2005, 11:34
This "spoiled Marine player discussion" you are turning this thread into is contributing how, to this rumour on plastic Scouts..? :rolleyes:

Knock it off, I guess some readers here will think youīre cool with all the marine-bitching but itīs not belonging here (and it gets old really fast).

The other races time will come.

Agamemnon2
12-06-2005, 11:44
Actually, I very much doubt the "their time will come" philosophy that people always suggest as a remedy to complaints such as the above. Their time has never, ever, in the history of the game, come. What makes you all so optimist that it really will, this time around?

Rich
12-06-2005, 12:07
Look guys, there's going to be a marine codex a year, so it goes. The fact is plastic scouts will be useful not just for marine players, but also for us IG players who want to convert guardsmen wearing carapace armour, and other assorted conversions.

I also think that with a quick release SM codex every year, the other race being released will have plenty of time to focus on rules development and new models - the waveserpent was dissapointing, yes, but the more time spent on developing the Eldar and Ork lines, the better they will be when the wait is over.

Back OT, I get the impression that a lot of you guys see the scouts being released as a 'combined' box with tactical marines - this makes some sence, but only as a short term release. It would make much more sence to my mind to have such a box available initially and then switch to separate boxes for scouts and tactical marines and the BT sprue as a separate entitiy - then you could buy whichever conversion sprue you wanted for your specific chapter and GW can save their shop space.

Imbroglio
15-06-2005, 23:11
There are only so many SM releases that can be made - in the last 8 months we have seen a release or repackaging of almost every single choice in the codex, so stop sweating. I'm expecting maybe two new boxes with each chapter codex, which will be annually, ish.

As far as plastic scouts go, they sound pretty cool. It's 6 months till the christmas window how, and consensus seems to be we'll start seeing BT around September/October time, which is, of course, UK Games Day.

*Starts speculation*

As far as pricing goes, maybe a 5 man squad, with enough parts to give said squad all the trimmings, retailing at about Ģ12. I'd probably cut this on two sprues. 1st your sprue with 5 basic scouts, CCW and BP. Second things like Sniper Rifles, Bolt Guns and Sergeant parts. I'd also be unsurprised to see a BT tactical squad including a sprue of BT shoulder pads and the basic scout sprue.

*Ends speculation*

Regards,

-- Imbrolglio

swanson4969
16-06-2005, 05:06
According to the manager at the battle bunker here there is definitely going to be assault termies and a termie chaplain, he has seen those. He has heard that there will be plastic scouts but has had no visual evidence.

philbrad2
17-06-2005, 10:13
As far as plastic scouts go, they sound pretty cool. It's 6 months till the christmas window how, and consensus seems to be we'll start seeing BT around September/October time, which is, of course, UK Games Day.

*Starts speculation*

As far as pricing goes, maybe a 5 man squad, with enough parts to give said squad all the trimmings, retailing at about Ģ12. I'd probably cut this on two sprues. 1st your sprue with 5 basic scouts, CCW and BP. Second things like Sniper Rifles, Bolt Guns and Sergeant parts. I'd also be unsurprised to see a BT tactical squad including a sprue of BT shoulder pads and the basic scout sprue.

*Ends speculation*

Regards,

-- Imbrolglio


Next major Gamesday is end of July in Chicago ( :wtf: ) IIRC. I'd expect a degree of BT info to be forthcoming then. Nids range will all be out by then and the 'road' will be clear for the next releases. After that I'm not aware of any gamesday until UK in September. There's still a nagging doubt in my mind when it comes to plastic scouts I must say. But if they are being produced the format of a generic bodies sprue and separate arms/weapons sprue would hold credit. We've seen it with the Terminators and SM Assault Marines and why both tooling sprues to have all weapons combos on when GW can simply add a new sprue somewhere down the line and launch the boxed set as a 'new' product. Just as I'm thinking with the Termis. We'll see the assault termis with the BT codex which will be pretty much generic termis with CC weapons. Mention has been made of a BT sprue being sold with the plastic tactical SM's tomake up a new BT boxed set. I reckon GW can get a lot of mileage out of the format of adding a new sprue to an existing to a boxed set and marketing it as a new set. BT's scouts I expect to come with pistols/CCW's, of course there's scope for a sniper/bolter/shotgun sprue possibly missile launcher too ??? Then GW could put out a sprue to make Wolf Scouts. Termis can/will get sprues to allow Deathwing and Wolfguard termis. Space Wolves were after all are the chapter that started the 'chapter specific sprue' line, its just taking GW a bit longer to get things rolling, but on reflecton with 3rd ed most SM chapters had codices released in the first 'wave' of releases in the first couple of years of 3rd ed there was little to tie in releases with. We did get IA tie in releases for both Loyalist and Traitor legions/chapters but all metal, remember the lead time on getting metal components into production is a lot less than with plastic and I'd expect less costly. With a new edition and all the non-codex chapters (plus new ones in the form of BT's) to get their new books and models now would be a perfect time to start such a series of releases. If we do see such chapter.variant specific releases the current release schedule of 1 chapter per year should be plenty of time to get these sprues into production and out to the gaming public tied into a codex release. I suspect 4th ed will see a lot more new 'toys' for SM players.


:chrome:

rkunisch
17-06-2005, 11:46
... After that I'm not aware of any gamesday until UK in September. ...
There is the german GD in August. There was never a seminar, but some infos/minis/demos are normally shown as well as some members of the Studio have been there to answer questions.

Have fun,

Rolf.

philbrad2
17-06-2005, 11:52
There is the german GD in August.
Rolf.

I stand corrected Rolf. I can never get a definitive list of European GD's. Cheers ma man.

:chrome:

Nazguire
19-06-2005, 07:08
Next major Gamesday is end of July in Chicago ( :wtf: ) IIRC. I'd expect a degree of BT info to be forthcoming then. Nids range will all be out by then and the 'road' will be clear for the next releases. After that I'm not aware of any gamesday until UK in September. There's still a nagging doubt in my mind when it comes to plastic scouts I must say. But if they are being produced the format of a generic bodies sprue and separate arms/weapons sprue would hold credit. We've seen it with the Terminators and SM Assault Marines and why both tooling sprues to have all weapons combos on when GW can simply add a new sprue somewhere down the line and launch the boxed set as a 'new' product. Just as I'm thinking with the Termis. We'll see the assault termis with the BT codex which will be pretty much generic termis with CC weapons. Mention has been made of a BT sprue being sold with the plastic tactical SM's tomake up a new BT boxed set. I reckon GW can get a lot of mileage out of the format of adding a new sprue to an existing to a boxed set and marketing it as a new set. BT's scouts I expect to come with pistols/CCW's, of course there's scope for a sniper/bolter/shotgun sprue possibly missile launcher too ??? Then GW could put out a sprue to make Wolf Scouts. Termis can/will get sprues to allow Deathwing and Wolfguard termis. Space Wolves were after all are the chapter that started the 'chapter specific sprue' line, its just taking GW a bit longer to get things rolling, but on reflecton with 3rd ed most SM chapters had codices released in the first 'wave' of releases in the first couple of years of 3rd ed there was little to tie in releases with. We did get IA tie in releases for both Loyalist and Traitor legions/chapters but all metal, remember the lead time on getting metal components into production is a lot less than with plastic and I'd expect less costly. With a new edition and all the non-codex chapters (plus new ones in the form of BT's) to get their new books and models now would be a perfect time to start such a series of releases. If we do see such chapter.variant specific releases the current release schedule of 1 chapter per year should be plenty of time to get these sprues into production and out to the gaming public tied into a codex release. I suspect 4th ed will see a lot more new 'toys' for SM players.


:chrome:


After deciphering the hideous brickwork of text...


I too agree. A lot cheaper and a lot easier instead of having to make an entirely new range of sprues, GW can simply add a new spure or two, paint the box black and call it "T3h Super Duper Black Templar Space Marines Squad!1!"

Sure as hell would be easier than making one or two million different metal figures for it. And cheaper for customer. :D

insaniak
20-06-2005, 04:10
How can someone be sure they've seen plastic scouts being worked on anyway... surely they could just have been black templars-specific metal scouts.
Plastics are sculpted at 3 times normal size. Metals are sculpted actual size.

LimeLord
20-06-2005, 04:34
If they make a BT sprue...... it would be sweet, i hope it comes with all sorts of nifty purity seals and shoulder pads and robes and stuph!

Insane Psychopath
20-06-2005, 08:27
20-06-2005 04:34
LimeLord If they make a BT sprue...... it would be sweet, i hope it comes with all sorts of nifty purity seals and shoulder pads and robes and stuph

The have. My friend got to seen a test mold version while he was down that 40k UK GT heat 3 because he know a lot people who work there & help with trade with them.

Any way what he told me one them are: Power Fist with templar mark, Power sword, front armour plates, purity seal, Emperor cham kinbd of style helmet & ton of purity seals that you get with all other Marine boxies now & shoulder pad.

Basic the plan is to bring like BT, BA, DA & SW will all get there own sprue.

Karhedron
20-06-2005, 11:50
The fact is plastic scouts will be useful not just for marine players, but also for us IG players who want to convert guardsmen wearing carapace armour, and other assorted conversions.
A good point. I bet there will be articles in WD about converting up Storm Troopers, carapace Guard and similar if/when the new scouts are released.

I am also curious about how much equipment you will get with the Scouts. They can be equipped with BPs and CCWS, bolters, shotguns and sniper rifles. That seems like a lot of options to include in one box, especially since they will probably need different arms.

I wonder if they will do a combat version first (just the BP+CCW stuff) to tie in with the Black templars. Then later down the line they might add a shooty squad which would have rifle arms and bolters, shotguns and sniper rifles.

charlie_c67
20-06-2005, 11:53
Perhaps CCW + BPs for the BT's and Shooty stuff for the DA's.

philbrad2
20-06-2005, 14:36
After deciphering the hideous brickwork of text...


OI!!! :D


Perhaps CCW + BPs for the BT's and Shooty stuff for the DA's.

That's my thinking too. I'd like to see plastic Wolf Scouts with metalgun, meltabombs etc... Of course there could be scope for producing pistols/CCW sprues, sniper sprues and bolter/shotgun sprues.

If plastic scouts come along perhaps we'll finally get to see a helmet variant for Scouts???

:chrome:

MidnightResistance
20-06-2005, 15:16
I'm amazed GW hasn't come out with a '**** load of weapons' sprue that we could all purchase in vast quantities.

Cloudscape_online
20-06-2005, 15:22
That'll never happen, but it should. IG weapons sprue with 6 lasrifles, 1 flamer, 1 grenade launcher, 1 plasma gun, 1 meltagun, 2 stormbolters, 4 swords, 2 plasma pistols, 2 bolt pistols. 20 weapons per sprue. Perfect. Rinse and repeat for orks, tau, eldar, chaos and marines. Nids and necrons aren't afforded this kind of luxury. :D

Karhedron
20-06-2005, 16:19
I'd like to see plastic Wolf Scouts with metalgun, meltabombs etc...
To be honest it would be very easy to convert them up if plastic scouts were available. SW heads, melta guns and other assorted stuff are all plentiful on the SW accessory sprue. You wouldn't even need any special effort to make wolf scouts. Just a generic plastic scout sprue and the existing SW sprue.

philbrad2
20-06-2005, 16:31
I'm amazed GW hasn't come out with a '**** load of weapons' sprue that we could all purchase in vast quantities.

It used to - sort of. The old 2nd Ed CC sprues both loyalist and chaos feature on my bits box stock up orders. Also there's a good selection of weapons avaialble in Necromuda. Even the old Orky bolter/weapons sprue has featured in numerous conversions over the years.

I agree though if GW did make up to date versions of these sprues with the current style weaponry I too think they'd sell well. But that might save us the modeller/gamer money. I dare say GW would like us to buy several sprues at increased costs for us to get the parts we want. With the new SM sprues at least we do get some additional bits on the sprues.

:chrome:

Inquis. Jaeger
21-06-2005, 14:24
A good point. I bet there will be articles in WD about converting up Storm Troopers, carapace Guard and similar if/when the new scouts are released.

I am also curious about how much equipment you will get with the Scouts. They can be equipped with BPs and CCWS, bolters, shotguns and sniper rifles. That seems like a lot of options to include in one box, especially since they will probably need different arms.

I wonder if they will do a combat version first (just the BP+CCW stuff) to tie in with the Black templars. Then later down the line they might add a shooty squad which would have rifle arms and bolters, shotguns and sniper rifles.

Similar to the deal with the Normal/Assault Termie division then?

Karhedron
21-06-2005, 15:09
Similar to the deal with the Normal/Assault Termie division then?
Just a guess although a division like that would certainly make sense. I guess we should start to get indications somewhere around the UK Gamesday.

aznsk8s87
22-06-2005, 02:21
It used to - sort of. The old 2nd Ed CC sprues both loyalist and chaos feature on my bits box stock up orders. Also there's a good selection of weapons avaialble in Necromuda. Even the old Orky bolter/weapons sprue has featured in numerous conversions over the years.

I agree though if GW did make up to date versions of these sprues with the current style weaponry I too think they'd sell well. But that might save us the modeller/gamer money. I dare say GW would like us to buy several sprues at increased costs for us to get the parts we want. With the new SM sprues at least we do get some additional bits on the sprues.

:chrome:

especially with their new price hike. GW never likes to cut us a break, do they :mad:

now, a question that befuddles me:
Why the hell is there a laspistol on that 2nd edition sprue?

charlie_c67
22-06-2005, 09:10
You could ask the same about the Autopistol. I think it was basically a generic sprue for all to use. I did cos I had/have a necromunda gang :)

Inquis. Jaeger
22-06-2005, 19:45
You could ask the same about the Autopistol. I think it was basically a generic sprue for all to use. I did cos I had/have a necromunda gang :)

Yeah, it wasn't just a marine thing

Saevus Secutor
29-06-2005, 17:31
I almost bought 20+ metal scouts, guess I have to wait now....phu!

Orcdom
30-06-2005, 03:32
an all scout army would be nice with either an infiltrating IC or a scout armored character.
Steve

Elusive71
30-06-2005, 05:17
Look guys, there's going to be a marine codex a year, so it goes. The fact is plastic scouts will be useful not just for marine players, but also for us IG players who want to convert guardsmen wearing carapace armour, and other assorted conversions.

That's exactly what I'll be using them for. Add Arbites to the list too.

axiom
30-06-2005, 16:00
It don't know a release date, but I can give you some info on sprue details as the first test sprues have been produced...I'm afraid I can't reveal my source though.

Each sprue will have enough components to make 4 scouts plus extras. You will get single piece legs, single piece bodies, 4+ heads (including one shouting, 1 with a targeter like the current metal heavy bolter head). You will also get 4 x bolters, 4 x bolt pistols and close combat weapons, 1 x sergeant chainsword (this will be of the standard marine chainsword pattern rather than the current scout sergeant style) and a heavy bolter which is of the same pattern as the current metal heavy bolter. There are no kneeling legs, cloaked torsos or sniper rifles.

I would guess that you'll get 2 sprues per box (8 scouts) and have plenty of spare bits.

- axiom

Karhedron
30-06-2005, 16:06
Interesting. I guess that GW will leave the sniper rifles in metal like most heavy weapons in tactical squads.

Chris
30-06-2005, 17:07
Interesting. I guess that GW will leave the sniper rifles in metal like most heavy weapons in tactical squads.

Hmm... no shotguns either... I was hoping to make shotgun armed Ordo Hereticus ISTs...

Melchor
30-06-2005, 17:18
That sounds very, very interesting.
I sure hope it's true. I'd love to have more scouts in my army. Especially bolter armed scouts. Duplicates s*ck. :D

Aenarion
30-06-2005, 17:27
Sounds quite good, I think that snipers would be availble later on as metals. I hope they don't do a plastic head like the old metal one, who look's like that blind guy out of star trek.

Dante
30-06-2005, 18:12
Only eith in a box..? 4 per sprue sounds, stupid..? 5 Would be so much better and easier.

Melchor
30-06-2005, 18:29
The Chaos Marines come in boxes of 8 right? Sprues of 4 isn't that strange. It's even better from a marketing point of view; if you want a squad of 10 scouts you'll have to buy 2 boxes. :evilgrin:

Karhedron
30-06-2005, 19:10
At least now I don't feel so bad about buying 10 sniper scouts.

Pluisje
30-06-2005, 22:08
Only eith in a box..? 4 per sprue sounds, stupid..? 5 Would be so much better and easier.

Of the top of my head Eldar guardians, Ork boys, gaunts and the new genestealers all have four models on a sprue. In WH Fantasy this is also standard for the slightly bigger models... Check the store for more examples.

Although if the sergeant is included on the sprue as suggested, I too agree that five would be better. The examples I mentioned all have no "leader" model (on the sprue).

hood_oz
01-07-2005, 01:51
At least now I don't feel so bad about buying 10 sniper scouts.

Am in same boat as you, but will upgrade the models if the new minis eventually DO get the option for sniper rifles. (as I do hate the duplicate model thing)

Dante
01-07-2005, 09:50
The Chaos Marines come in boxes of 8 right? Sprues of 4 isn't that strange. It's even better from a marketing point of view; if you want a squad of 10 scouts you'll have to buy 2 boxes. :evilgrin:

Yes, but itīs not really the same thing. 8 Scouts is hardly equivalent of 8 Chaos Marines. They canīt sell a Scout box with 8 menfor the same price as a Tactical Squad and as you canīt have 12 in a Squad 4 on each sprue is not smart.

Melchor
01-07-2005, 10:13
They canīt sell a Scout box with 8 menfor the same price as a Tactical Squad

Who says they will? They'd probably sell for the price equivalent of an Assault Squad or something.
And if it is true that there are no special weapons other than the HB on the sprue, you can easily add some metal models (shotguns ans sniper rifles spring to mind) to the mix and make it a squad of 10.

I wouldn't be surprised if they came at 4 on a sprue.

Here we are dreaming about plastic scouts, but does anyone have any indication about the credebility of these rumours?

axiom
01-07-2005, 11:08
Here we are dreaming about plastic scouts, but does anyone have any indication about the credebility of these rumours?

I know it's difficult to put any kind of credibility on any info without seeing actual evidence, but I can assure you my source is in a position to have seen test sprues at this early stage. I will also add that I spoke to Tim Adcock about plastic scouts at the Cry Havoc event at warhammer world last month and his comment was that although he:


couldn't confirm or deny their existence, they do look very nice

Fingers crossed we see pics at some point soon :)

Dante
01-07-2005, 14:02
Who says they will? They'd probably sell for the price equivalent of an Assault Squad or something.
And if it is true that there are no special weapons other than the HB on the sprue, you can easily add some metal models (shotguns ans sniper rifles spring to mind) to the mix and make it a squad of 10.

I wouldn't be surprised if they came at 4 on a sprue.

Here we are dreaming about plastic scouts, but does anyone have any indication about the credebility of these rumours?

Did warseer just keep the smart-asses from old Portent..?

The thing is, it doesnīt make sence together with the rest of the Marine kits.

Karhedron
01-07-2005, 15:35
The thing is, it doesnīt make sence together with the rest of the Marine kits.
Really? The 8 scouts in a box can be fielded exactly as they are. Or the buyer can purchase a blister which conveniently contains 2 sniper scouts to take the squad up to the full 10-men.

Remember that the metal scout models are nearly 10 years old now. They have long since recouped the costs of sculpting them and making the molds. But if they can tie the Sniper ones into a new release in this way and boost their sales it will be pure profit on their part for no extra investment. Sounds like shrewd business practice to me.

The Emperor
01-07-2005, 15:52
Eh, if there aren't gonna be any sniper rifles in the boxed set, then I got no use for this at all. I already got all the Scouts I need. The only thing I didn't have was a decent number of Sniper Rifle armed Scouts. I've got the two existing models, but I hate doubling up on models, so I never got any more. So plastic Scouts with Sniper Rifles would've been perfect for me, since those're a Scout variant that I could see buying a couple boxed sets of. Anywhere from 20-30 of them.

But as it stands, I'm really disappointed with this boxed set, and won't be getting it. :( Oh well. At least we'll be getting Assault Terminators, too.

LostTemplar
01-07-2005, 16:49
I suppose converting bolters to snipers will become common practise for all those non-BT players. Its probably not very hard, just extend the barrel and add a scope? How complicated is that for a plastic model? :O

Karhedron
01-07-2005, 18:10
Eh, if there aren't gonna be any sniper rifles in the boxed set, then I got no use for this at all.
Well there will be bolter arms so all you have to do is find something suitable to represent a Sniper rifle. Any long barrelled gun should do the trick. Have a look through the online store and see if you can find something suitable. Kroot rifles might even be suitable once you remove the spiky bits.

boogle
01-07-2005, 18:25
Yes, but itīs not really the same thing. 8 Scouts is hardly equivalent of 8 Chaos Marines. They canīt sell a Scout box with 8 menfor the same price as a Tactical Squad and as you canīt have 12 in a Squad 4 on each sprue is not smart.

i think betwen Ģ12-15 will be right for this if its true, and the 2 spare to make it into a 10 man squad could be 2 Sniper Rifles

Wimvh
01-07-2005, 20:14
But as it stands, I'm really disappointed with this boxed set, and won't be getting it.

Perhaps wait till you see it first?

Orcdom
01-07-2005, 22:12
Did warseer just keep the smart-asses from old Portent..?


apparently kept the crybabies too.

the vindicair assasins sniper rifle would be a sweet ad-on.

Steve

Brimstone
01-07-2005, 22:29
Did warseer just keep the smart-asses from old Portent..?.

No need for this.


apparently kept the crybabies too.

No need for this either.

Let's avoid the immature name calling please gentlemen, play nice.

Nazguire
02-07-2005, 00:56
What I want in a plastic scout box...

8x well detailed, multi pose Scouts, with all the goggles, camo, grenades etc that go with them.

2x Sniper Rifles for all the Snippy Sniper players out there

1x Heavy Bolter for people like me who prefer the more manly approach to combat :evilgrin:

That'd be worth it in my mind...oh yeah a power weapon for the Sergeant :D

boogle
02-07-2005, 09:22
by the sound of it, you have 2 out of 4 right

Brimstone
02-07-2005, 13:43
Brief report from Ulfhedin on Dakka.


I have seen a couple of sprues (might have been one sprue split in half like the cadians)of the new plastic scouts. The sprue contains shotguns, close combat weapons, bolters etc. No sign of sniper rifles or missile launcher but the heavy bolter is pretty neat. Detail wise they look on par with the plastic cadians and I wouldn't be suprised if the parts were interchangable. Design wise they are very similar to the existing metal scouts and there shouldn't be too much difference mixing them in the existing range.

They are well beyond the mock up phase and are in a good enough condition that I suspect they must be part of the Black Templar release schedule.

Insane Psychopath
02-07-2005, 13:50
Thank Brom for that scout report. So it is true & most like to come out for BT cool. Don't know if I will use them in my BT army.... but they will go toward my scout army I've planned :D

my_name_is_tudor
02-07-2005, 14:10
if that report is true then I would expect to see some kind of metal sniper-rifle add one, to replace the bolter, perhaps bought in the same way the older space marine special weapons were, perhaps.

Master_Forcide
02-07-2005, 21:44
if that report is true then I would expect to see some kind of metal sniper-rifle add one, to replace the bolter, perhaps bought in the same way the older space marine special weapons were, perhaps.
Or maybe GW will just keep the current sniper models. ;)

FrAnKtHeFrEaK
02-07-2005, 22:52
Good to hear we'll be getting shotguns. IG players are going to absolutely love this boxed set, perfect for giving sergeants shotguns, converting stormtroopers or even carapace armoured guardsmen.

Saevus Secutor
03-07-2005, 08:30
I know shotguns are cool, but whatīs good about them? Range 12 weapons are not a good deal to me... sry for going OT

Malakai
03-07-2005, 09:05
Range 12 weapons are not a good deal to me...

...said the guardian to the warlock.


No, but this scout sprue does seem nice. I'm glad that I kept the sniper rifled marines for my girl's DA army when i sold off the old metal scouts.

Malakai

Tulkas
03-07-2005, 10:53
So it's confirmed then? We're getting plastic scouts? Awesome! I can't wait to see the first pictures of sprues to come.

Brimstone
03-07-2005, 11:24
So it's confirmed then? We're getting plastic scouts? Awesome!

Well I still wouldn't call it 100% confirmed but the evidence is pretty damn likely that we will be seeing plastic scouts in a few months.

Xyon
03-07-2005, 14:05
Shotguns let you assault after you fire them, unlike bolters.

I cant wait to see any official information about the scouts, they will make an excelent addition to my army, and would be cool to do an army of just scouts, too.

Two sniper squads with missle launchers, two bolter squads with heavy bolters(or one bolter scout squad and scouts converted to be a command squad), maybe one shotgun squad w/sgt+powerfist and a BP/CCW squad w/sgt+powerfist (or two of these if one of the bolter squads is a command squad)

mmm, two pinners, two move+rapid firers, two-three assaulters, maybe scouts bikes for additional support.

aznsk8s87
03-07-2005, 14:41
would scouts be suitable models for carapace armoured cadians? or are they too space marine-ish?

Orcdom
03-07-2005, 16:03
if you plan on assaulting with that squad whats the point of the snipers then? if they shoot that turn you cant assault. points wise just leave them as cc scouts.

but with plastic scouts i can now finish out my 10th company.
Steve

charlie_c67
05-07-2005, 12:52
For those wondering what to use as sniper rifles, what about the Elysian assault weapon sprue? Has all you need on it plus extras. Sounds like a good sprue on the whole though.

my_name_is_tudor
05-07-2005, 13:17
One of the best concepts that comes to mind with plastic scouts is the 10th company full-and-proper. With a scout chaplain, scout apothecaries, scout standard bearers, commanders, the works, even tank crews in scout gear, everything.. It'd be brilliant - ilegal rules wise - but brilliant!

Karhedron
05-07-2005, 14:00
would scouts be suitable models for carapace armoured cadians? or are they too space marine-ish?
Have to wait and see what the models look like. I imagine they would be OK Carapce Guard and Storm Troopers. Even if they need a little converiosn work, they are plastic so it should not be too hard.

Knighty
05-07-2005, 17:35
A few people on Dakka have said they've sen the sprues and that they're not far away.


Then again for all I know they just want attention.....

Orcdom
05-07-2005, 21:48
for a scout company to work they could make scout artificer armor for chars and let them have thier 3+ save but what about infiltration. thats what burns my backside.
Steve

aznsk8s87
05-07-2005, 23:56
That's a good idea. I let my friend field a scout company; he takes the profile of the Master for his commander, takes away five points to compensate for the 4+ armour save, and he can take regular stuff from the armoury. no librarians or chaplains though. see if your friends will let you do that.

Orcdom
06-07-2005, 02:19
the chaplain would siut best as a teacher.
Steve

my_name_is_tudor
06-07-2005, 14:40
according to lots of fluff i've seen (Insignium Astartes, 3rd ed C:SM, 4th ed too i think) The scout companies have a chaplain, but they don't have librarians (as the librarians are not attached to companies as such)

Tulkas
08-07-2005, 16:46
I think the Scout company would mostly be run by the Veteran sergeants, with only a Chaplain and a Commander watching over the entire Company. Would be a nice way to re-introduce the 1 wound leader characters they had in 3rd edition (although only available for Scout armies).

philbrad2
08-07-2005, 17:03
Don't see the problem with fielding regular 3+ save 2/3 wound characters in a Scout force. When you read the background of Chaplains recruiting aspirants for various chapters they don't don scout armour the use their regular power armour. I'd see scouts Sgts in a mix of power/carapace armour.

I know it would look cool, but I don't see the point of the entire 10th co. of a chapter deploying as one for an action. A lot like the 1st co. The are specialists in a particular field of warfare and their skills are needed across the chapters scope of operations. Its much more realistic to field them as a component of an SM force. Perhaps a 400pts combat patrol army would be the maximum amount of scouts I'd expect to see grouped for operations on their own, but a 1500-2000pt army :wtf:

:chrome:

Tulkas
08-07-2005, 17:49
Don't see the problem with fielding regular 3+ save 2/3 wound characters in a Scout force. When you read the background of Chaplains recruiting aspirants for various chapters they don't don scout armour the use their regular power armour. I'd see scouts Sgts in a mix of power/carapace armour.

I know it would look cool, but I don't see the point of the entire 10th co. of a chapter deploying as one for an action. A lot like the 1st co. The are specialists in a particular field of warfare and their skills are needed across the chapters scope of operations. Its much more realistic to field them as a component of an SM force. Perhaps a 400pts combat patrol army would be the maximum amount of scouts I'd expect to see grouped for operations on their own, but a 1500-2000pt army :wtf:

:chrome:The problem with 40K is the fact that you quickly loose your eye for scale. I can't for the life of me think of anyway a chapter can take over a planet in the amount of time they are usually said to do. I can really see an entire Scout company being fielded to collect intel and performing covert ops behind enemy lines. A hundred men would be the minimum required for that task.

CassiusDraconis
08-07-2005, 18:21
I don't think there should be a problem with a scout army. They have to get experience somehow. There wouldn't be a lot of room for heavy equipment, so you are at a disadvantage with hitting power, but a chaplain or commander in power armor would be very appropriate for a force that large. Devastators in power armor would even be appropriate since a large scout formation would likely have heavy support "back over the ridge" If you were dead set on using the scout armor miniatures, you could make sure your opponent knew in advance that these were reenforced scout armor and therefore a 3+ save. Most people shouldn't have a problem with using cool miniatures to give flavor to an army list. You could even fit the scouts with Marine power armor shoulder pads to represent the reenforced scout armor.

Borsil
08-07-2005, 21:00
my question is: where does it say there are only ever a maximum of 100 scouts per chapter (not including black temps)? I think it would be more likely that they would have at least 200 to make sure they weren't going to loose too much man power if say, 1 thunderhawk gets blown up while carrying troops... or am i just babbling as usual :p

Orcdom
08-07-2005, 22:06
2nd ED Ultramarine Codex, the 10th company is reserved for the scouts, and each company compromises of 100 men.
Steve

athamas
08-07-2005, 22:14
there was a thread on background where we worked out a true chapter size is probably closer to 2000 for the big major chapters, when including all its marines, copmand staff {still marines} ect...

the size of the 10th companie varies greatly depending on how many battle brothers have fallen recently! as they are the recruits!

boogle
08-07-2005, 22:50
10th Companies have no fixed size

Orcdom
09-07-2005, 02:51
how is that when chapters are 1000 men each company 100 strong

i understand very few chapters will have a full 100 marines to each company due to deaths, and slow recruitment/training.

Steve

Karhedron
09-07-2005, 21:49
Chapters have a nominal size of 1000 men. In actual fact the number of Marines capable of being deployed at any one time may indeed be less than that.

athamas
09-07-2005, 21:58
but they also have many marine on dute as capits and XO's in their fleet, that are not taken into account in the chapter size!

Tom
09-07-2005, 22:16
Simple answer to that 10th Company thing: Command Squads get Infiltrate, don't they?

Orcdom
11-07-2005, 04:16
thats not the point.

the point is
Chars in scout armor or artificer scout armor
Elite scouts maybe something like 1 or 2 special weapons per squad
standard troop scouts
Fast scouts - bikers
HS scouts - scouts with 2 HW's per squad

at least remove the elite and HS choices and allow up to 12 squads of no more than 100 scouts total.

Steve

worldshatterer
11-07-2005, 08:18
Why on earth would you want to do that? Scout Companies just simply aren't designed to be battlefield units . The idea of elite and heavy support scouts goes completely against the grain of the whole concept of marine scouts .

Its acceptable to me to have a small 40k army of scouts to represent them coming toghether to overhwhelm a position behind enemy lines . This can be done with the codex as it stands.

Karhedron
11-07-2005, 08:45
but they also have many marine on dute as capits and XO's in their fleet, that are not taken into account in the chapter size!
Actually according to the BFG fluff, most Marine ships are heavily automated and usually run by a Tachmarine with a cadre of Servitors.

Basically while there are a lot of support staff in a Chapter, the vast majority of Marines are battle brothers. When you consider the amount of work that goes into preparing a Marine for the Battlefield, you wouldn't want to waste that by then posting the Marine to a support role.

my_name_is_tudor
11-07-2005, 20:04
plus marines are built for combat, why have him in a menial tak on board a ship when he can be ripping the heads off foul xenos scum?

MidnightResistance
11-07-2005, 20:15
Jesus! Isn't this thread dead yet?

What kind of monster have I created :O

Orcdom
11-07-2005, 21:29
Why on earth would you want to do that? Scout Companies just simply aren't designed to be battlefield units . The idea of elite and heavy support scouts goes completely against the grain of the whole concept of marine scouts .

Its acceptable to me to have a small 40k army of scouts to represent them coming toghether to overhwhelm a position behind enemy lines . This can be done with the codex as it stands.

no it dont, scouts are trainees, where do they get special weapons training?
working as dev squads? oh so snipers are supposed to fill this role, baaah.

maybe your idea is that, but it is an option of having a specialist army for so called covert operations. and really all it would take is a half page chapter approved to allow a character with scout armor. with that i would be happy with 2 chars, 12 troops using 2 force charts.

no the other squads arent necessary but would be a good excuse to allow scouts to be taken as elites and HS along with the troops and FA you can have now, as long as scouts were the only thing you could take.


Jesus! Isn't this thread dead yet?


unsubscribing is always an option.


Steve

Melchor
11-07-2005, 21:59
Jesus! Isn't this thread dead yet?

What kind of monster have I created :O

Yup, and like every good monster it spun right out of control! :D
(off-topic that is)

Sir_Turalyon
11-07-2005, 22:46
the point is
Chars in scout armor or artificer scout armor
Elite scouts maybe something like 1 or 2 special weapons per squad
standard troop scouts
Fast scouts - bikers
HS scouts - scouts with 2 HW's per squad


Scout companies (like devastators and assault squads) are rarely used as battlield forces - too inflexible. They are rather divided to support tactical companies, and that's what army list gives us. The idea of sending forward whole scout company to "do scouting" or to intercept enemy force is extremly interesting, but it should not turn scouts into battleforce with devastator squads.

Here are two ideas, compatibile with army list.

"Behind enemy lines" force :

HQs: Commander and chaplain. No scout armour thingy- commanders and chaplains of scout company are not "scout heroes", but senior Marine officers assigned to command. Obviously no Terminator Armour.

Elites: Veterans. Must take infiltrate as their veteran ability.

Troops: Scouts. See but not be seen tactical squads might fit, but what point in taking scout company then?

Fast Attack: Scout bikes, Landspeeders (acting as hit-and-run air support).

Heavy Support: All left behind. See but not be seen Devastator for desperates.


Spearhead force (scouts sent to locate enemy for main force to attack).

Characters: All
Elites: All except Techmarine.
Troops: Tactical Squad, Scout Squad.
Fast Attack: Scout bikes, Land Speeders, Assault Squads.
Heavy Support: Devastators.

Only models with infiltration rule (scouts, infilitrating veterans, see but not be seen squads) and scout bikes can be deployed at start of the battle. All other units (HQ included) must enter game by deepstriking, eighter using drop pods or own special rules. It represents scouts summoning take-and-hold attack on objective they located.

Orcdom
11-07-2005, 23:02
im stubborn, i would rather have all scouts :P
Steve

Sir_Turalyon
12-07-2005, 00:19
That would be hard as no HQ is a scout... they need this one "adult" Marine character to command them. But, a big force of scouts would not be let away without trusted leader / instructor anyway, so his presence is justified fluffwise.

hood_oz
12-07-2005, 00:29
im stubborn, i would rather have all scouts :P
Steve

Understood, use the scout bikers to convert up vehicles, like landspeeders to have scout crew, and use a modified scout to act as commander. just add lots of shiny gear and objects, give him an iron halo, and just say he 'counts as' a normal commander. Only ever use the iron halo save, and not a power armour save he might qualify for. That way, you play in the theme of the army, and get to feel justified in the fact you are using a pure scout force.
(and you arent claiming a power armour save on a model that isnt wearing power armour)

Enjoy! Would love to see pics when you have it finished.

Chris
13-07-2005, 14:16
Actually according to the BFG fluff, most Marine ships are heavily automated and usually run by a Tachmarine with a cadre of Servitors.

Basically while there are a lot of support staff in a Chapter, the vast majority of Marines are battle brothers. When you consider the amount of work that goes into preparing a Marine for the Battlefield, you wouldn't want to waste that by then posting the Marine to a support role.

I alwalys pictured each Marine have 3-4 servitors acting sort of like his squires. Cleaning the boltgun, preparing the armor, rubbing him down with sacred oils :eek:

anyway, The rumor thread shows a new scout box for $25. Do you suppose this is confirmation of plastic scouts or same old metal in new packaging? Either way we probably only get 5 models at that price...

Karhedron
13-07-2005, 14:43
anyway, The rumor thread shows a new scout box for $25. Do you suppose this is confirmation of plastic scouts or same old metal in new packaging? Either way we probably only get 5 models at that price...
I believe current sources indicate that Scouts are coming 4-per sprue and the new box contains 2 sprues. So that $25 will probably get you 8 Scouts, same price per model as Chaos Space Marines.

foehammer888
13-07-2005, 15:25
thats not the point.

the point is
Chars in scout armor or artificer scout armor
Elite scouts maybe something like 1 or 2 special weapons per squad
standard troop scouts
Fast scouts - bikers
HS scouts - scouts with 2 HW's per squad

at least remove the elite and HS choices and allow up to 12 squads of no more than 100 scouts total.

Steve

And what next? Assault devastator squads? Heavy weapon assault squads? They have "see but not be seen" for a reason. In certain specialized chapters tactical marines have learned to infiltrate even when bogged down by powered armor. Hell, veteran and command squads can do it in any army.

If you were a marine commander, and you could infiltrate in powered armor, why would you give up additional protection for no gain? So you and the scouts would match? This is war, not Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.

Foehammer

Karhedron
13-07-2005, 21:56
I got the impression that Scout armour existed for neophytes who weren't fully capable of interfacing with Power armour. Not sure where I got that impression from.
In general you are correct. A few chapters such as Space Wolves have full Marines who chose to wear scout armour for covert missions (Wolf Scouts) but this is definitely not a codex arrangement.

Orcdom
13-07-2005, 22:35
where the hell did you pull assault devestator squads bla bla bla from?

no one was talking about that, all i mentioned was the other FO slots like Elites and HS and using an alternate list to allow a person to field more scouts, the elites would represent trianing in assault weapons where else they getting it? shotguns? bah. and the scout dev would be a second HW to to represent HW teaming. and i even said or just standard scout squads for the other sections of the force chart hence the 12 squads part taking troops as elites and HS like the deathwing does.

and the HQ part has been filled with naam but IIRC that character is dead and is dark Angel specific and pretty sure he has a points limitation on army size.

you can argue that it is still not a viable army, but then you have to agree that neither is the deathwing, oh but wait they have an official list so we will just put this idea down and be extremely sarcastic because its not "fanboy" official.


"They have "see but not be seen" for a reason." and the certain specialized chapters bit...... who cares, i dont want power armor infiltrating, otherwise the discussion would be about that.

yes power armor has been infiltrating for the last 3 editions probly all 4. (not necessairly meaning loyalist either)

Steve

philbrad2
14-07-2005, 08:44
I really can't see this 'chartacters in scout armour' all characters will be fully 'qualified' SM's why would they then drop to wearing scout carapace armour? Scouts are just that - SCOUTS not assault teams, not devatators. They range ahead of main SM forces to reconoitre enemy positions and (in theory) work behind enemy lines in a covert/guerilla fashion. For the HQ of the scout co. why would a fully qulaified Capt and his associated staff wear scout armour. In the Ragnar books the Wolf Priest was in full power armour. In the Soul Drinkers books the aspirants are chosen by full power armoured Chaplain and led by a veteran promoted to Capt (I think) all in powered armour.

Wolf Scouts seem the only change to this and this is primarily because of their role as veteran, elite, covert operatives not trainees which scouts are.

Not saying no one shouldn't field a scout army if they wish but to kit their characters out in carapace armour - just 'cause its a scout army does I think fly in the face of the known background. If you want to have an all infiltrating force make your power armour guys infiltrators.

:chrome:

Karhedron
14-07-2005, 10:31
I agree, the role of Scouts does not support hugely varied equipment. The Scout company would probably never be deployed on their own, squads are attached to other battlegroups to fulfil specific objectives. Those objectives are reconnaissance, sabotage, infiltration and gaining battlefield experience.

If the Chapter wants heavy support, they would employ Devastators or tanks. It would not fit with the nature of Scouts to carry around lots of heavy weapons in a squad. Similarly Elite Scouts do not make much sense in normal chapters. By the time Scouts are experienced warriors, they will gain power armour and be promoted out of the Scout Company. Wolf Scouts are a very different case.

foehammer888
14-07-2005, 14:43
where the hell did you pull assault devestator squads bla bla bla from?

no one was talking about that,

Yes you were. Scouts are for just that, scouting. By making scout heavy weapon squads you are changing the purpose of a unit. It's the same as wanting devastators to be able to take BP and CCW. They are a support unit, why try and make them useful in close combat?


all i mentioned was the other FO slots like Elites and HS and using an alternate list to allow a person to field more scouts, the elites would represent trianing in assault weapons where else they getting it?

Scouts train to become tactical marines. Those with a proficiency in close combat are simply graduated to assault squads where they get further close combat training.


you can argue that it is still not a viable army, but then you have to agree that neither is the deathwing, oh but wait they have an official list so we will just put this idea down and be extremely sarcastic because its not "fanboy" official.

But deathwing isn't simply a terminator army. It is a special veteran company of the dark angels that has specific fluff behind it. It does operate on it's own, and it is quite common for characters to wear terminator armor. This is in the fluff.

Scouts, on the other hand, are never used as a complete company, like the reserve companies. They are assigned as squads to other companies to gain experience and perform scouting operations. There is no fluff to support a complete scout force, and HQ units do not take scout armor.

Basically, there are 3 types of units in the space marine army: terminators, power armored, and scout. People think that since they can make a full powered armored army, that they should be able to make a full scout or terminator army as well. These are specialized units with specific purposes.

If you really want a terminator army, you can play deathwing, or simply use a terminator heavy codex list (you can have 5 terminator squads, and just need 2 small troop squads). If you really want a scout army, just use the codex list. You can have 60 scouts as troop choices. Naked that's 780 points of scouts.

I don't mean to be sarcastic, but i'm an engineer. I don't hope and dream for things that won't happen, I find real solutions. If you really have a love affair with carapace armor, there are many other armies that could satisfy you.

Foehammer

Alpharius
14-07-2005, 15:09
I believe current sources indicate that Scouts are coming 4-per sprue and the new box contains 2 sprues. So that $25 will probably get you 8 Scouts, same price per model as Chaos Space Marines.

I really, really want to believe this!

And if it is true, great!

But a more likely thing is that as this new plastic box set of scouts (US$25) will replace the current metal box set of scouts (4 scouts + 1 sergeant US$20), the new plastic box set of scouts will have far less than 8 scouts.

(See also - 5 metal terminators at US$50 to 5 plastic Terminators (old style US$40, new style US$50))

I would love to see 8 plastic scouts in there, but... Well, let's just hope for the best!

Chris
14-07-2005, 16:00
I really, really want to believe this!

And if it is true, great!

But a more likely thing is that as this new plastic box set of scouts (US$25) will replace the current metal box set of scouts (4 scouts + 1 sergeant US$20), the new plastic box set of scouts will have far less than 8 scouts.

(See also - 5 metal terminators at US$50 to 5 plastic Terminators (old style US$40, new style US$50))

I would love to see 8 plastic scouts in there, but... Well, let's just hope for the best!

Yeah, I agree, this is too good a deal to believe. I would think a box with 8 models would be $30-35 with GW pricing.

my_name_is_tudor
14-07-2005, 16:08
bear in mind that not all chapters just bung the new recruits into the scout company, the space wolves are the obvious example, but any DIY chapter (and given how much GW are promoting DIY chapters with traits and all they cannot be discounted) could have their new recruits going straight into power armour, their scouts are merely standard battle brothers trained to scout who wear scout armour.

Of course, scout armour is there for the purpose of scouting (obviously) so there's no need for scout devastators or scout assault squads or whatever, but in some none-standard-codex army I can easily see a commander donning scout armour if he wanted to scout something out for himself, without being huge and noisy.

I think scout armour should for this kind of thing be treated as an item of wargear, taken in the same way as terminator armour (in that vet sergeants can't take it) that allows the model taking it to use the scout special rule..

Mr.terminatorbob
14-07-2005, 21:36
well they made some plastic scouts but they were discontinued and are old

Orcdom
14-07-2005, 21:38
well even a 1 wound character i would have been happy with like naam or whatever his ******* name is.

i hope the scouts do come in 8 to a box @30.00 or whatever the rumor is. then i can add a sarge and HW and make 4 more squads to finish my 10th company.

Steve

Killgore
14-07-2005, 22:26
I' began converted a Plastic Commander to have modifed Scout armor, although I'd still be forced to use the rules for power armor.

He will lead my Ultramariens 10th company.. I'll have none of this silly buisness of Chaplains leading scout armys to battle.

boogle
14-07-2005, 23:04
well they made some plastic scouts but they were discontinued and are old
the scouts themselves weren't too bad, but the plastic scout sgt was just pap supreme

Orcdom
15-07-2005, 01:46
the old scouts were pretty good, easy to convert, takie a 3rd ed marine missle launcher and carve out that arm and carve the HB from the old scout arm and you have a good swap, or hell just swap them like they are.
i even saw some of the old metals which were designed pretty much the same converted to snipers and they werent too bad either.
Steve

Brimstone
15-07-2005, 08:02
I even saw some of the old metals which were designed pretty much the same converted to snipers and they werent too bad either.
Steve

The old mohawk metal scouts are pretty good indeed I've still got a squad converted up with plastic chainswords and they still look worthy of inclusion in a 4th edition army.

The metal Space Wolf scout sgts in the same range were very good and convertable into more generic sgts.

Nazguire
15-07-2005, 08:41
What makes people think that the Captain of the Scout Company, or any Marine really, that wants to be stealthy would don Scout Armour.

The only reason they have Scout Armour is because they are Scouts, not Marines. Since Power Armour and a Black Carapace effectively makes the armour a second skin, they'd be more than aware of every little detail to be just as stealthy as a Scout.

t-tauri
15-07-2005, 18:05
The only reason they have Scout Armour is because they are Scouts, not Marines. Since Power Armour and a Black Carapace effectively makes the armour a second skin, they'd be more than aware of every little detail to be just as stealthy as a Scout.
I could see wearing the scout armour if power were going to be an issue. If you anticipated a very long operation then scout armour may be a better choice in case the power armour needing repair or maintenance. Possibly advanced foe races could also pick up the power emissions from the power armour suit.

worldshatterer
15-07-2005, 19:43
Space marine power armour is powered by atomic stacks, which keep suits going for decades without refueling . So i don't think powered time is too much of a problem, and seeing as many types of marines in power armour can inflitrate then stealthyness in PA is also a non-issue . That only leaves maintenance, and seeing as we hear of campaigns where marines get stuck behind enemy lines for years at a time then this is also beneath consideration .

So what exactly is the reason for wanting carapace armoured scout characters, other than a few people think it would be cool. or don't want to have to remember which save they are going to take?

spud
15-07-2005, 21:25
Typically scouts are newly made space marines who have yet to prove themselves worthy of power armour.

Ruskins
16-07-2005, 00:29
Well not really, scouts are just fully enhanced, indoctrinated and trained marines, but they lack actual battle experience, once they have proven thier worth in a few battles they will be assigned to a squad to replace a casualty.

spud
16-07-2005, 00:49
Well not really, scouts are just fully enhanced, indoctrinated and trained marines, but they lack actual battle experience, once they have proven thier worth in a few battles they will be assigned to a squad to replace a casualty. Uh...that's pretty much what I said.

Orcdom
16-07-2005, 01:49
the only scouts that are crap are the bicep-less wolf scouts they released after the 3rd ed space pup codex was released.
Steve

worldshatterer
16-07-2005, 11:57
Scouts in codex chapters lack the black carapace that allows the to interface with their PA, thats the fluff .

Sure wolf scouts are full marines yet they wear carapace, but i feel thats more of the developers overlooking their own fluff and then refusing to correct it . folks who feel that they want to put full marines in scout armour are making a similar mistake .

Tulkas
16-07-2005, 12:33
Mindless banter aside, is there any confirmation yet? I couldn't bother to read the last three pages, since I'm certain they're filled with OT gibber.

MrAhrens
16-07-2005, 12:39
Mindless banter aside, is there any confirmation yet? I couldn't bother to read the last three pages, since I'm certain they're filled with OT gibber.
Yes, they're in the release schedule in the rumour roundup.

Tulkas
16-07-2005, 12:42
Yes, they're in the release schedule in the rumour roundup.
Funny, I read that just after I posted here. Scouts are listed at $25, while the current (metal) box for 5 Scouts is listed as $20. Possibly $5 more for the fact that they are plastic?!?!?


It's pure speculation, but I thought I'd share that with you.

MrAhrens
16-07-2005, 14:24
Funny, I read that just after I posted here.
Though you should've read the roundup first. :p


Scouts are listed at $25, while the current (metal) box for 5 Scouts is listed as $20. Possibly $5 more for the fact that they are plastic?!?!?

It's pure speculation, but I thought I'd share that with you.
Might be the case. It could also be that the new box contains more than 5 models and/or lots of extra bits. :chrome:
$5 for having scouts in plastic isn't all that bad. Let's just hope the models will be as good as, or better than, the current metal models.

Tulkas
16-07-2005, 18:24
Though you should've read the roundup first. :p


Might be the case. It could also be that the new box contains more than 5 models and/or lots of extra bits. :chrome:
$5 for having scouts in plastic isn't all that bad. Let's just hope the models will be as good as, or better than, the current metal models.
"As good as" is good enough for me, since we should be getting multi-part plastics with shotgun and/or boltgun options included in the set. Can't get much better than that.

TC27
17-07-2005, 22:09
The store manager at GW Tunbridge Wells told me they are coming with the BT release (at the risk of stating the well known)..

Intersting to see what format we will get them in, I will buy them with either but would prefer bolters + sniper rifles.

MidnightResistance
17-07-2005, 22:12
*beats the thread with a stick*
"Why won't it just die!?"

It's like Frankenstein's Monster! And I'm it's unwitting creator :S

Karhedron
18-07-2005, 08:26
Intersting to see what format we will get them in, I will buy them with either but would prefer bolters + sniper rifles.
They can be built with either bolt pistols + ccws OR bolters OR shutguns. So You get every variety except Sniper rifles.

spud
18-07-2005, 09:10
They can be built with either bolt pistols + ccws OR bolters OR shutguns. So You get every variety except Sniper rifles.I hear from a very reliable source that the kit will come with a heavy bolter as well. I also hear the parts for the scouts fit the cadian plastics quite well too.

Non-FW drop troops anyone? :)

Inquis. Jaeger
18-07-2005, 09:25
The weapon mix sounds sweet. And very useful for IG players.

boogle
18-07-2005, 12:57
yeah its almost been confirmed that the box will have 8 models in it and an HB will be in there, the bit about the shotguns and boters i'm not too sure about

Elusive71
20-07-2005, 00:47
Looks like I'll be picking up replacements for my copy of Advanced Space Crusade!

Insane Psychopath
23-07-2005, 11:00
I know this might be old. But when I was resubscribeing my White Dwarf, I was talking to the mail order staffer & he say that the spure are ready & that you might be able to buy them that the UK Games Day.

They are due for release same time as the Black Tempolar codex, BT tactic box & that basic that come out first when a new codex is out.

But you should be able to get them that UK Games day, but he was unsure as they yet to make plan for what going to be pre relese there.

IP

philbrad2
23-07-2005, 11:10
If previous GD's are anything to go by IP a selection of items for the BT's will be available. I'm expecting the scouts and assault termis to be there as they are much more generic than the BT kits. Although its likely a selection of BT releases (Tact/Command/Assualt) boxes should be there as I expect these are the codex chapter sets with the BT accessory sprue. I expect the scout won't have chapter specific bits in them.

:chrome:

ArtificerArmour
23-07-2005, 11:14
the only scouts that are crap are the bicep-less wolf scouts they released after the 3rd ed space pup codex was released.
Steve

one of those guys is now one of my ig veterans...they have some uses, even if its not as a space marine...

i'm looking forward to the release though, as an IG player.

Tulkas
23-07-2005, 11:39
It's still two months 'till UK GD right? Too bad that's still so vewy vewy vewy wooong to wait. *looks sad*

sanctusmortis
23-07-2005, 13:03
25th September, so yeah...

It's looking increasingly hard to do for me, but fingers crossed I can make it.

t-tauri
23-07-2005, 15:30
If previous GD's are anything to go by IP a selection of items for the BT's will be available. I'm expecting the scouts and assault termis to be there as they are much more generic than the BT kits. Although its likely a selection of BT releases (Tact/Command/Assualt) boxes should be there as I expect these are the codex chapter sets with the BT accessory sprue. I expect the scout won't have chapter specific bits in them.

Assault terminators are confirmed in the GD blurb in the latest WD. I seem to remember that codices haven't been available at the last few GDs. I'm not expecting to see much specific BT stuff for prerelease sale.

sanctusmortis
23-07-2005, 17:11
1 or 2 BT box sets and no codices are what I expect. It's what the Tau got.

Frodo34x
23-07-2005, 20:53
Of the top of my head Eldar guardians, Ork boys, gaunts and the new genestealers all have four models on a sprue. In WH Fantasy this is also standard for the slightly bigger models... Check the store for more examples.

Although if the sergeant is included on the sprue as suggested, I too agree that five would be better. The examples I mentioned all have no "leader" model (on the sprue).
IIRC, almost all WHFB sprues have 4 models on them. I also think the IG sprues have 4 models.

I reckon scout torso sections and legs would work well together with cadian helms and lasguns.

Chris
25-07-2005, 13:15
IIRC, almost all WHFB sprues have 4 models on them. I also think the IG sprues have 4 models.

I reckon scout torso sections and legs would work well together with cadian helms and lasguns.

I was just assembling a couple of cadians this morning. The sprue comes in two parts with 5 legs, 5 torsos, belt attachments and an assortmate of heads on one and 5 lasgun arms, 1 grenade launcher arm set, 1 flamer arm set and one las pistol CCW set on the other sprue. It looks like both sprues are molded together and split in half to fit in the box.

If memory serves me correctly, the empire guys I have gathering dust on the shelf did come 4 to a sprue, for both spearmen and handgunners.

Brother xavier
30-07-2005, 01:12
what if GW is slowly making everything plastic, and quietly phasing out the metal models?

No doubt they will eventually do this, and since they're a corporation now the plastic models will probably cost the same as the metal ones do, or more if they keep going with these price rises :cries:

Inquisitor Engel
30-07-2005, 06:35
No doubt they will eventually do this, and since they're a corporation now the plastic models will probably cost the same as the metal ones do, or more if they keep going with these price rises :cries:

Metal will never entirely be phased out. Special character, limited editions, and models that no one buys a lot of will always be in metal. No one is going to buy a significant number of Marneus Calgars or Azraels to make them worthwhile in plastic, ever.

Core/Troops models, and large units will be made in plastic. Larger models are also plastic, but don't bet on characters or things like Zoanthropes or the majority of HQ models going plastic anytime soon. :)

BorisGT
30-07-2005, 06:56
Engel is right, metal will be around as long as the game is.

What with all the different characters in the game and all the detail available to a metal mold..... yar! Thems metals are a fine bunch!

sanctusmortis
30-07-2005, 10:50
Metal's too damn good. The modelling it allows for will probably never be matched by plastic, and besides they'd never make the money if they switched. Plus, some people really do love metal models.

Now, Tyranids, I can see them having a select few metals only... After all, Biovores would be easy plastics, as would the Tyrant, Raveners, Tyrant Guard (who should, IMHO, be plastics anyway), spore mines, gargoyles... That leaves, what, the Broodlord and the Zoanthropes? Oh, and Lictors.

Airborne XO
15-08-2005, 22:45
I hope this pans out..it will do my Arbites army the world of good with access to more scout goodness as I am limited to chopping metal up at the minute!!

Cheers, XO

useless
17-08-2005, 11:30
has anyone seen this yet? http://uk.games-workshop.com/sneakpeeks/warhammer40000/default.htm

boogle
17-08-2005, 18:49
yes it has been seen in numerous places and is also in the Rumour Roundup section on this very forum

Briareos
18-08-2005, 15:12
Here's a pic of the test models for the plastic scouts :

http://saleon2.skyblog.com/pics/205257646.jpg

Not bad, but not fantastic either. I still think they suffer from "big heads" syndrome.

Lostanddamned
18-08-2005, 15:18
and a hunchbacked sergeant.

t-tauri
18-08-2005, 15:26
Where's the pic from?
Still look a little "Mr Incredible" I'm afraid. The hunchback sarge could just be the way he's assembled. Still, look better than the photoshop picture.

stahly
18-08-2005, 15:27
They are horrible. Who made the chainsword arm's pose? Urgh.
And it seems that there won't be CCWs and BPs in it, but instead, ehrm, shotguns.

Orcdom
18-08-2005, 21:10
i think the only reason the sarge looks hunched is the position of the head.
Steve

methoderik
18-08-2005, 21:38
I don't like the jaw line very much. Everything else looks pretty cool though. I bet as we get more pictures they will get alot better. I love the bolters with the slings.

Melchor
18-08-2005, 21:45
Did I read it right, and does it say you only get Bolters, Shotguns and a Heavy Bolter? No Bolt Pistol and CCW? That sucks.
On the other hand, there are enough different CC scout models, and only 2 different boltgun and shotgun (?) scouts. So they need al the variety they can get. And plastic is SO much easier to convert.

I have to get used to the heads by the way, I wonder how much bigger they are than those on the IG heads (and especially the Catachan ones).

They're much better than the photoshop picture made me believe they were though.

Brimstone
18-08-2005, 22:08
Did I read it right, and does it say you only get Bolters, Shotguns and a Heavy Bolter? No Bolt Pistol and CCW? That s*cks.


You can say sucks. ;)

I'm very suprised at that as they are due out at the same time as the Black Templars and their Neophytes only get a choice of shotguns and bp/ccw.

I'm going to wait for information before I'm sure they don't.

Melchor
18-08-2005, 22:18
Best to be on the safe side right? :D

But it is weird, with the BT thing and all. I can't think of any better release date for CCW scouts than around the time the BT codex is released.

Maybe along with the BA codex? :angel:

my_name_is_tudor
18-08-2005, 22:55
it does say includes, which could suggest theres other stuff too, i.e. bp/ccw which is sort of considered standard for scouts.

Killgore
18-08-2005, 23:27
I'm pleased they are comming with shotguns


I have a small scout army of ultramarines (only a captain whos still only just getting made, 10 scouts with ccw with sarg having a powerfist and a unit of 10 scouts with bolters with heavy bolter) and the shotgun scouts where next on the buy list, along with another unit of bolter scouts!



so good news for me!

Melchor
18-08-2005, 23:29
it does say includes, which could suggest theres other stuff too, i.e. bp/ccw which is sort of considered standard for scouts.

Good point. We can only hope.

hood_oz
19-08-2005, 00:01
Am very impressed by the bolters with straps.
Will have to be buying some of the plastic boxes for my IG vets, and for my Vet SM squad to be used with my Inquisitors army, as well as my main SM force...

Would love to see some bolt pistol and CC pics.

Honestly, the plastic shots are better than the promo shots. The heads look better. I didnt say great, but better than the photoshop version.

Mr.terminatorbob
19-08-2005, 03:11
I dont really like the bp and ccw combination I pefer snipers and the other scout types so good for me.

Jericho
19-08-2005, 07:08
Why would anyone take Scouts with anything but bolters and a rocket launcher? The look on an opponent's face is just so sweet when you sneak around and blow a hole through the side of his big bad battle tank on turn 1 :D

Anyway I'm very happy with the way these Scouts turned out, they look sharp and variety in the bolter/shotgun department was desparately needed.

Jedi152
19-08-2005, 12:30
The sergeant is in the old awful 'flat' position, with his arms totally flat with his body.


I hoped that this had died out with 2nd ed. Evidently not.

Samoth
19-08-2005, 13:52
Wow, those are horrible. The bolters are about the only good thing there. Even the torsos just look wrong. I'm not regretting making the decision to convert metal scouts rather than waiting for plastics. Wonder if those bolters are on a seperate sprue?

I fear for the sniper and camo cloak sprue after these. :( And if I was a sisters player, I'd be happy my models were metal and not plastic too.

Briareos
19-08-2005, 14:04
Apparently the snipers will still be metal, so no fear there.

Ki-Adi-Monkey
19-08-2005, 17:11
Where's the pic from?

UK WD309

It is in the news section.

Rob

ferrus
19-08-2005, 18:43
Hvaing said all this I for one am looking forward to: plastic shot guns + Cadias = Adpetus Arbeites

Wonderdog
19-08-2005, 23:18
Cant say I'm too worried about the lack of close combat weapons on the sprue (if this is the case), plenty of plastic assault marines arms lying around.

Bit dissapointed about the lack of sniper rifles though. Looks like some green stuff and a bundle of vindicare assassin rifles again...

#Wonderdog

Melchor
19-08-2005, 23:57
... which is easier now that they're plastic! ;)

Dante
20-08-2005, 00:18
I donīt like the loom but I will try to use the legs and torso, together with Marauder arms and Kroot shoulder pads to make Wolf Scouts. Might work..?
With some extra Space Wolve accessories and cool heads I think it might be possible to do decent Wolf Scouts..? :D

FrAnKtHeFrEaK
20-08-2005, 01:12
What were they thinking when they made those torsos?!?!?!?! They've completely ruined conversions to carapace guardsmen by making the armour too space-mariney.

Chris
20-08-2005, 01:46
Hvaing said all this I for one am looking forward to: plastic shot guns + Cadias = Adpetus Arbeites

Me too, Espically If I have tons of left over shotguns cause I gave all the scouts bolters.

Nazguire
20-08-2005, 02:54
Me too, Espically If I have tons of left over shotguns cause I gave all the scouts bolters.


A devious plan if I ever saw one.


With the moans about how they made it harder to create Stormtroopers, that is a possibility so that you have to actually buy the box/blisters to get Stormtroopers, instead of converting.

Devious plans GW. :D

philbrad2
20-08-2005, 10:47
Just seen the pics of the scouts in UKWD and yes those heads still suck the big one. I was hoping the photoshopped pic from Chicago was an odd angle - its not! The bodies look in proportion except for this heads. The commlink really extends that jawline to the point of them looking silly. Might be able tgo shave this down - but why should we have to! Still more than enough SM/IG heads available to subtitute them- even sM helmets should fit Ok - if you like the look (covering up those square heads should be enought fro anyone IMHO) For those impatient, its should be easy enough to make up plastic sniper scouts using either converted plastic sniper rifles or the Vindicare sniper rifles (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99060108001&orignav=10) from MO.

:chrome:

Malakai
20-08-2005, 10:59
That's really too bad. Looks like my girlfriend will be ordering the rest of her scout squad from MO and getting the older metal ones. She already has a thing against GW miniature faces(don't ask, she's quirky) those she just laughed at and told me she didn't care how good the unit was it was not going in her army. I don't really blame her.

Where's the quality control Mr Goodwyn?


Malakai

philbrad2
20-08-2005, 11:17
I donīt like the loom but I will try to use the legs and torso, together with Marauder arms and Kroot shoulder pads to make Wolf Scouts. Might work..?
With some extra Space Wolve accessories and cool heads I think it might be possible to do decent Wolf Scouts..? :D


Nice idea. I've a few scratchbuilt WS's using similar bits, add Mordhiem heads and these should be some good looking WS's (at last!)



What were they thinking when they made those torsos?!?!?!?! They've completely ruined conversions to carapace guardsmen by making the armour too space-mariney.


Hmm.... reckon if you use the Cadian helmets (or my preferred option the Cadian Sentinel pilot head (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=9947010516805&orignav=10) )or the heads from the IG vehicle accessories they'd look OK. Armour doesn't look too bulky TBH, might be worth looking at loosing the rebreather around the neck to distinguish them from Scouts. Possibly the Elysian/standard Sentinel pilot heads would work too if the arms were replaced with IG arms you could have some passable, cheaper drop troops.

:chrome:

Tom
23-08-2005, 01:32
Just seen the pics of the scouts in UKWD and yes those heads still suck the big one.


I disagree. Bruce Campbell, anyone?

philbrad2
24-08-2005, 14:27
I disagree. Bruce Campbell, anyone?

LOL :p damn their multiplying just like in 'Army of Darkness' - those heads still stalk my dreams BTW :rolleyes:

:chrome:

Green Grot
24-08-2005, 16:12
Any Pics of the sprues yet?

GG

amedius
24-08-2005, 21:42
I just would like to say a few things in the defence of the plastic scouts. Here they are:

1) Will people please not nay say about how the new plastic sclouts are "horrible models", and other things. I say this because maybe the models in the photos look bad but you can't really cast judgement on a model till you see it in the flesh (that's just my opinion).

2)The Photo's that have been released do not show all of the different combinations that can be used to assemble the models and so there maybe different heads and arms for the sargeant.

3) Lastly, if you don't like them, don't buy them. It's as simple as that no one is forcing you to buy the models.


They are just my opinions on the matter.

starlight
24-08-2005, 21:45
Photos? Where?

Generally, buy what you like, don't buy what turns you off.

amedius
24-08-2005, 21:50
Photos? Where?

.


here are the photos in white dwarf:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37&page=3&pp=10

Odin
24-08-2005, 22:07
I was very dubious when I saw the Photoshopped pic. But the unpainted versions in WD looked fine to me, nearly as detailed as the metal ones, and way more flexible.

starlight
24-08-2005, 22:33
Oh, *those* ones.

Haven't had a WD in a year. It's odd, I had many pre-200, 200-297 and then nothing.

OT, I'm looking forward to them, but the purchase will depend on the value at the time.

Wolf Scout Ewan
24-08-2005, 23:54
Nice idea. I've a few scratchbuilt WS's using similar bits, add Mordhiem heads and these should be some good looking WS's (at last!)


Being a Wolf Scout myself I think it would be entirely reasonable to do this.

Also consider using greenstuff to make cowls for the cloaks, and considering we spend huge amounts of time living off the land behind enemy lines give them plenty of pouches, packs etc. Mordheim accessory sprue is good for this imho. Oh and the Elysian equipment packs.

philbrad2
25-08-2005, 00:35
I just would like to say a few things in the defence of the plastic scouts. Here they are:


1) Will people please not nay say about how the new plastic sclouts are "horrible models", and other things. I say this because maybe the models in the photos look bad but you can't really cast judgement on a model till you see it in the flesh (that's just my opinion).

Scout models are fine, the heads though are not. These aren't the best plastic heads we've seen from GW. I seen the box cover art pic and the pic of the plain plastics in WD (shown in the rumour round up.) The jawline on all the pictures is far too square for my taste. Couple this with what I see as excessively thick commnet mic boom and this makes the jawline look way out of proportion with the rest of the model. If this was confined to the Photoshopped pic then fair enough but the rumour roundup/UKWD pic shows the same fault - I have had UKWD since last week so I've studied the pic at length. Agreed that a number of mini's that look horrid in pics aren't so bad in the flesh and I've yet to see the Scouts but on what I'm presented with I've made my judgement. When I see the sprues in the 'flesh' I may change my mind - as yet I haven't From what of all the sneek peek pics since Chicago GD have shown us, these models are the worst I've seen of the forthcoming SM/BT model ranges. Strangely, I'm not alone in my opinion either. However a head swap, thankfully, is a fairly easy thing to accomplish with plenty of suitable replacements across the GW range. Compare the plastic models to the Jes G originals and they are inferior there is a lack of detail compared to these, the Jes G metal scouts are still some of my favourite metal minis in the SM range. But these are plastic and with the now huge amount of GW plastics available they make the perfect base to convert - one of my passions in this hobby. I will then be buying this kit as I (like many others) will be converting them. I have a requirement for Imp Fist as well as BA scouts in my armies, as well some hefty conversions planned for Wolf Scouts. Something that was/is as nightmare if you wish to convert the current metal scouts, with all the plastic around currently I'm coming to the conclusion converting metal mini's is for sadists - I've too many scars from saw/knife cuts to go back to hacking up pewter. Not to mention, I'm thinking of adding some of these guys as either carapace armour/drop troop IG and/or Arbites for my DH/WH forces. These models offer so much to SM and non SM players alike. They could possibly become one of the best used kits for convertors of Imperium forces.



2)The Photo's that have been released do not show all of the different combinations that can be used to assemble the models and so there maybe different heads and arms for the sargeant.

Agreed, but the models shown are quite representative of the what's in the box set, all the heads I've seen so far are similarly out of proportion inc. the Sgts and the 'Geordie LaForge' visor head IMHO. Even my 12 year old son says the heads aren't very good, compare these to the plastic Cadian Sgt's head, this is an excellent sculpt, correctly proportioned and commnet boom is quite delicate. This head feature in a large number of SM conversions I've seen. The boom is less delicate on the bald SM vehicle crewman on the SM vehicle accessory sprue. Why can't this kit have something akin to these? All I ask is for a correctly proportioned heads without the 'sticky-out' Micky Rouke in Sin City style jawline....

http://www2.filmweb.no/multimedia/archive/00036/Mickey_Rourke_i_Sin__36333f.jpg


3) Lastly, if you don't like them, don't buy them. It's as simple as that no one is forcing you to buy the models.

Think I've covered that one above :D


They are just my opinions on the matter.

And like everyone elses we appear to differ, and I respect your opinion. I have some cash set aside for a box of these guys at UKGD. Don't have to like every kit I buy, what I don't like I can and will change.


Being a Wolf Scout myself I think it would be entirely reasonable to do this.

Also consider using greenstuff to make cowls for the cloaks, and considering we spend huge amounts of time living off the land behind enemy lines give them plenty of pouches, packs etc. Mordheim accessory sprue is good for this imho. Oh and the Elysian equipment packs.

As I say there is now a tremendous amount bits available from GW now to really do some good WS using thse models as a basis. The current SM tactical box comes with a huge amount of spare kit in the box now, not to mention all the spares I got from the command squad set. Just actually wondering if GW will produce a WS accessory sprue for when the 4th ed SW codex comes out. With the basic Scout kit there's scope for numerous chapter specific scout variant sets.

:chrome:

Luke
25-08-2005, 09:34
i think we are forgetting that at a basic level, scouts are still marines and as such are still highly elite, big-hard meatheads. i train at a gym 5 times a week and most of the guys there do possess the "bullet head" that the new scouts have. i know this is probably no excuse for poor sculpting, but at least its a fairly believable explanation.

Wimvh
26-08-2005, 12:52
I agree. Indeed the non-painted models in WD are quite nice. And INDEED there are loads of SM and IG heads out there for conversions!!

Orb
10-11-2005, 13:48
I saw these in my local store at the weekend -

IMHO, the heads are horrible. Rework cadian sarge with mike boom thats badly moulded. They also look too small - in fact, the whole scout looks small. The heads all look too alike as well.

Nothing special in the box - the moulded straps on the bolters are well out of scale.

the body armour rises at the back and looks odd, the legs dull variations on a theme.

A hugely missed opportunity.

Surprised Brian Nelson has his name on these - my guess is he supervised the project.

ferrus
10-11-2005, 20:05
But let us be honest you know theyre gonna sell massively to the kids in GW...

Orb
10-11-2005, 22:15
But let us be honest you know theyre gonna sell massively to the kids in GW...


absolutely!

For me as a modeller and not a gamer there's useful stuff in the box for sure. Just not as much as I'd hoped.

But of course they'll sell!