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Forsworn
31-05-2013, 05:31
So I was curious what you would call a good "Challenge Monkey". Obviously, Special Characters do not count. We are only including un-named Lords/Heroes.

For my part:
Loremaster of Hoeth: Leaping Blade, Golden Crown, Shield of the Merwyrm, Potion of Foolhardiness.
- ON a turn where you use the potion you have: 7 S4 attacks that can go S5 if you get Wyldform off. You can also lower the enemy's WS to, hopefully, hit on 3's and have him on 4's (hopefully 5's, with a good roll). Then use Convergence to give him -1 to hit so they are on 5's or 6's.

Yes, I realize that that is a lot to ask for, but this is the "optimal plan" for our Challenge Monkey. What is YOUR challenge monkey?

Dwarf Lord: Shield Bearers, Gromril, 2 Runes of Iron, The D6 Wounds Rune, the GW Rune. Get a Great Weapon. This gives him a 2+/5++, and his attacks are at S6, with the possibility of any one of them landing enough wounds to kill the enemy.

Bretonnian Lord: Virtue of Confidence, Sword of the Lady's Champion, Guilded Cuirass, Potion of Foolhardiness. 5 Attacks that re-roll To hit and To Wound on 3+? Yeah, seems good. Regeneration grants you some good survivability as well.

danny-d-b
31-05-2013, 06:57
Archleactor on barded warhorse with heavy armour, enchated shield, speculum, talisman of preservation and biting blade
thanks I'll just take your stats and then laugh as your guy with 2 attacks trys to get through my 1+/4+

NitrosOkay
31-05-2013, 07:05
Vampire Lord on Barded Nightmare, Shield, Heavy Armour, Sword of Anti-Heroes, Nightshroud, Other Trickster's Shard, Talisman of Protection, Quickblood, Red Fury, Beguile. Point him at a unit with more than one character in it.

yeknoMehT
31-05-2013, 07:08
Bretonnian Lord: Virtue of Confidence, Sword of the Lady's Champion, Guilded Cuirass, Potion of Foolhardiness. 5 Attacks that re-roll To hit and To Wound on 3+? Yeah, seems good. Regeneration grants you some good survivability as well.

Unfortunately, you cannot take all this (virtues come out of the magic item allowance...) - and the gilded cuirass is not worth it. You are better buying armour of destiny for 5 points less and a proper ward save, or just get the grail shield for even less points. That way you can fit the sword, the shield and the virtue into his points allowance. You might as well take a lance as well, just in case he charges and his opponent is less than T5.

madival
31-05-2013, 07:09
Vampire lord on nightmare with great weapon, night shroud, heavy armour, tailsmen of protection, shield, red fury, beguile, quick blood. 5 i7 s7 attacks that usually hit on 3's and wound on 2's and take 4 armor away, has a 1+ save/4++ and any bonus str from weapon don't count and you enemy will always swing last as the lose ASF and gain ASL

grumbaki
31-05-2013, 07:34
Dwarf Lord: Shield Bearers. Gromril Armor with the Runes of Stone, Preservation and Steel. Talisman with the runes of Spite and Fire. Great Weapon.

Full 125 points of runes spent, along with 31 points worth of mundane gear. What do you get?

WS7 S6 T5 W3 A4 AS-1+ WS-4+
Immune to poison and killing blow
Enemy strength cannot exceed 5
2 extra WS5 S4 attacks
2+ WS v. Fire attacks

Put all that together and few foes can kill him. Even the strongest enemy is going to wound him on 4's, and he'll get a 3+/4++. Then he hits back with S6.

He's a character who simply outlasts his enemies, slowly chipping away at them while they ineffectually flail against him. A true dwarf.

Wesser
31-05-2013, 08:35
Bret Lord: V. Heroism, Heartwood Lance, Armour of Agilulf, Pegasus. Don't got book on me so may be over magic limit with 5 pts:)

Especially good if he is charged himself.

Branchwraith with Annoyance of Netlings comes into mind as the most cost-effective option

Trustey
31-05-2013, 08:57
This would be more useful and realistic if you built it as a BSB or at least a hero point allowance, not lord. For most armies anyway.

Vipoid
31-05-2013, 09:31
So I was curious what you would call a good "Challenge Monkey". Obviously, Special Characters do not count. We are only including un-named Lords/Heroes.


What do you mean by 'challenge monkey'?

boli
31-05-2013, 10:23
Skavenslave Champion BAMN 6 points and takes a character (and his mount) out of the fight. Heroes/Lords only warlock at 15 points can do the same job.

You never said he had to *succeed* ;)

Asuryan's Spear
31-05-2013, 12:01
Charging DP champ with star lance has worked wonders for me...re-rolls plus str6 ignoring around is horrible on a unit champ

Forsworn
31-05-2013, 17:46
What do you mean by 'challenge monkey'?

Basically, a character whose only purpose is simply to challenge an enemy and kill them in one turn. One example is the High Elf Star Lance noble.

You mount him w/ Dragon Armor and Shield. He has a 2+ AS. Then you buy him the Star Lance, Potion of Foolhardiness, and Golden Crown. This makes him 2+/2++ against the first wound (well, the 2++ only triggers if you fail the AS). Before the opponent gets to strike at you, you get 4 WS6, S7, ASF attacks at I7. Thanks to re-rolls, the high strength, and "Ignores Armor" clause, the odds are good that your Noble will kill whatever accepted his challenge.

Another option is Caradryan, who is S5, WS7, I8, 3A, and deals D3 wounds per unsaved wound.

Morax
31-05-2013, 20:26
Archleactor on barded warhorse with heavy armour, enchated shield, speculum, talisman of preservation and biting blade
thanks I'll just take your stats and then laugh as your guy with 2 attacks trys to get through my 1+/4+

Takes the cake every time because he cheats. Cheaty faced empire nobles.

Myster2
05-06-2013, 22:49
This mirrors the one v. one champion thread we had a little while ago.

Again i would say saurus oldblood on carnosaur, Armor of fortune, whatever else you would like to give him, great weapon.
Give someone in the army the bane head and have it target the champion you want to kill most.

He is 5 attacks at str 7, the carnosaur is 4 attacks at str 7 with d3 wounds (thunderstomp if target is not mounted). Any wound the target takes is doubled.

madival
10-06-2013, 00:35
This mirrors the one v. one champion thread we had a little while ago.

Again i would say saurus oldblood on carnosaur, Armor of fortune, whatever else you would like to give him, great weapon.
Give someone in the army the bane head and have it target the champion you want to kill most.

He is 5 attacks at str 7, the carnosaur is 4 attacks at str 7 with d3 wounds (thunderstomp if target is not mounted). Any wound the target takes is doubled.

The nightsroud vampire lord stomps this guy. Those 5 attacks strikke at str 5 instead of 7 and go last. Depending on the power setup, if he charges, he will paste mount or ride before they get to strike and his mount can be pretty beastly.

samuel44
10-06-2013, 00:56
Wood elves can do this quite well because of the annoyance of nettlings (only hitting on a 6 in combat)

You can go for the tough build by putting it on a treeman ancient or the killy build by putting it on a war dancer lord (I think you can end up with 5 ASF Killing blow attacks if you build her right).

Yowzo
10-06-2013, 14:30
Here's a challenge monkey tag team:

Black orc boss, BSB with mork's banner, war boar, shield
Base to base to a BO warboss on a war boar, dawnstone, tricksters helm and sword of striking.

It's exactly 500 points, but real tough to beat, good luck going through a 1+ re-rollable AS with all your magic items not working and having to re-roll to wound.

Blinder
10-06-2013, 14:33
Well, if the goal is to actually kill someone (I was figuring it was for a character to toss at a challenge and get on with killing the unit...), Bret Lord with Gauntlets and other gear to taste? Kind of defeats the purpose if they just send someone to the back, after all. I'd imagine just about any Chaos combat character would probably score well, too.

EDIT: As for the above, once you're in the challenge wouldn't the banner be out of the equation?

Yowzo
10-06-2013, 14:59
As long as they're in base to base contact with the banner it works.

warplock
10-06-2013, 18:43
Can't say I am fond of the terminology 'challenge monkey'. Isn't it pretty much exactly the same as 'strongest combat character'? Even more disappointing are the suggestions. ASF Red Fury Vampires and Chaos Nurgle Lord/ Daemon Princes are probably the strongest melee fighters in the game and they've not yet been mentioned. Anything which relies on an ability which is only used on the charge, such as the suggested Star Lance Elf, is a no-go in any realistic scenario, since he will be challenged out by the unit champion first of all, leaving the enemy character free to deal with him in subsequent rounds when he doesn't have his fancy lance.

WizzyWarlock
11-06-2013, 10:26
My favourite Alter Highborn build:

Alter Highborn: Armour of Silvered Steel, Stone of Rebirth, Annoyance of Netlings, Great Sword.

He's got 5 attacks at S6, a 2+ armour save, opponents in challenges only hit him on 6's, and when he's down to his final wound he also has a 2+ ward save.

Yowzo
11-06-2013, 11:39
Can't say I am fond of the terminology 'challenge monkey'. Isn't it pretty much exactly the same as 'strongest combat character'?

Not necessarily, a speculum-wielding archlector is the ultimate challenge monkey (maybe barring an annoyance of netlings treeman ancient), but is a rather meh combat character.

Morax
11-06-2013, 11:56
Not necessarily, a speculum-wielding archlector is the ultimate challenge monkey (maybe barring an annoyance of netlings treeman ancient), but is a rather meh combat character.

I'd have to say an Empire Wizard Lord with Sword of Striking, Speculum, and Talisman of Preservation mounted on a barded steed might get that job done even better but yeah, it's not always the strongest combat character.

Yowzo
11-06-2013, 12:06
Speaking about challenges: Annoyance of netlings vs. sword of striking, are you hitting on 6s or 5s?

kramplarv
11-06-2013, 13:22
Chaos Lord of Nurgle
Sword of D3 wounds, flaming attacks, nor armosave, exploding bodies and suicide
Other tricksters shard
Potion of Strength.
scaled skin
soulfeeder
shield

This one have one-whacked a lot of stuff for me. greater demons, abominations, treemen, eagles, ogres, anything really.
the hardes part is to figure out where and when to use the potion of strength. :)

somethimes he gets a horse instead of scaled skin, to make him faster and safe from thunderstomps. But then he have to ride with other cavalry and I am not particulary fond of
Chaos knights since they are not worth their points :p and marauder horsemen seems very... un-epic to escort a chaos lord.

Morax
11-06-2013, 17:17
Chaos Lord of Nurgle
Sword of D3 wounds, flaming attacks, nor armosave, exploding bodies and suicide
Other tricksters shard
Potion of Strength.
scaled skin
soulfeeder
shield

This one have one-whacked a lot of stuff for me. greater demons, abominations, treemen, eagles, ogres, anything really.
the hardes part is to figure out where and when to use the potion of strength. :)

somethimes he gets a horse instead of scaled skin, to make him faster and safe from thunderstomps. But then he have to ride with other cavalry and I am not particulary fond of
Chaos knights since they are not worth their points :p and marauder horsemen seems very... un-epic to escort a chaos lord.

vs

Empire Wizard Lord with Sword of Striking, Speculum, and Talisman of Preservation mounted on a barded steed

Wizard Lord goes first with 5 attacks hitting on 5's, for 1.667 hits, wounds on 2's for 1.39 wounds against a 3+ save for .46 unsaved wounds

Chaos Lord swings back with 1 attack, hitting on 3's for .667 hits, wounds on 3's for .44 wounds against a 4++ save for .22 wounds. Assuming it goes through he has a .07% chance total to kill the wizard lord.

Subsequent rounds have the Chaos lord doing .05 wounds per turn.

I'd say the Wizard lord is gonna win this one too.

kramplarv
11-06-2013, 19:16
well, in fact. Any character with the speculum will win against any combat character. No need to prove anything here. It is old news. Dont beat the dead horse etc. :)

Forsworn
11-06-2013, 20:47
Can't say I am fond of the terminology 'challenge monkey'. Isn't it pretty much exactly the same as 'strongest combat character'? Even more disappointing are the suggestions. ASF Red Fury Vampires and Chaos Nurgle Lord/ Daemon Princes are probably the strongest melee fighters in the game and they've not yet been mentioned. Anything which relies on an ability which is only used on the charge, such as the suggested Star Lance Elf, is a no-go in any realistic scenario, since he will be challenged out by the unit champion first of all, leaving the enemy character free to deal with him in subsequent rounds when he doesn't have his fancy lance.

Not quite. Generally the way it was used was to refer to Heroes/Champs/Wizards who were tooled out so that they'd automatically kill anything they challenged. Generally you'd challenge their combat monster of a lord, kill him in a challenge, and laugh. The best example of this i Caradryan. 3 attacks, will hit on 3's re-rolling (4's re-rolling at worst) and then has S5 and D3 wounds. Get Razor Banner on his unit to make it even funner.

Another example was a Bladelord with the Talisman of Loec (killing them first thanks to all the re-rolls) and Opal Amulet (worked even better with the Talisman). This would generally result in re-rolling to hit and to wound on 3's or 4's (3's being more likely thanks to WS6), wounding on 3's or 4's (S5), and then saving things on a re-rollable 4++.

Basically, lower ranked characters capable of killing combat Lords.

CauCaSus
14-06-2013, 14:29
Speaking about challenges: Annoyance of netlings vs. sword of striking, are you hitting on 6s or 5s?

Netlings force you to hit on a 6, but not unmodifiable, so we play it as he gets hit on a 5 in this case.

But add fimbulwinter shard or glittering scales and its back up to 6.

And take a featherfoe torc to add insult to injury vs deamon prince or any other flying character :p

Zeroth
14-06-2013, 19:45
A Warriors of Chaos hero on a daemonic mount with a 1+ AS and 3+ ward save.

Zeroth
14-06-2013, 19:48
Speaking about challenges: Annoyance of netlings vs. sword of striking, are you hitting on 6s or 5s?
No GW FAQ on it. If your gaming group or local tournament uses the ETC FAQ to fill in gaps they say this:

"5Q: How do -1/+1 to hit kind of effects apply in situations where units hit on a fixed number, such as Annoyance of Netlings?
A: They are not applied."