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Aunodin
03-06-2013, 18:21
Well title explains it but I need some advice on what i should run on my HQs for empire.

So far I am possibly looking at 1 General
1 Battle Wizard lord (not sure on lore but i may go light for the buffs)
1 captain BSB (If any character needs to run item light it will be him)
1 battle wizard (thinking Lore of fire on him)
1 Master engineer (not sure what weapon would be good for him but will mainly hang out with artillery
1 witchhunter (Cant leave home without the bad ass hat now can we)
4 Warrior priests (One is going to be converted into a Warrior priest of Ulric to hang out with my White wolves. The prayers names get changed but that is about it, Shield of Faith is now protection of the Pack, Soulfire is Winter's Breath, and Hammer of Sigmar is now Fangs of Ulric. One of the other Priests will be mounted with my other knights)

So army wise I am still thinking of what all will be in there But for core i will be running at least 2 Knight units with one being White wolves. A unit of swordsmen with detachment of halberds and a unit of handgunners and archers (not sure if i will put a detachment with them but it might just be more handgunners as a detach.
Special wise will be greatswords and then artillery prob a pair of great canons

Forsworn
04-06-2013, 03:03
Which characters fit best depend on your army. The amount of characters depends on your points value. I recently ran into the problem that I lacked bodies in an army because I had too many characters (4 heroes and Allariele). Honestly, even with how cheap Empire characters can be, I think that 9 is too much. at any rate, the BSB should have the Armor of Meteoric Iron. 50 points for a 1+/6++ is good protection. Battle Wizard should just be a scroll caddy. No clue on what to do for the Witch Hunter, OR the Master Engineer.

The Wizard Lord has a lot of options. You can go for Book of Ashur/Talisman of Endurance (5++ and bonus to cast/dispel), or Forbidden Rod + Talisman of Preservation (to make a magic phase nasty). As for Lores, I feel that Shadow, Life, Light, and Metal (in that order) are your best bets. They all have some good force multipliers (if you roll them), good utility, and some nice damage spells. :)

danny-d-b
04-06-2013, 04:42
Well title explains it but I need some advice on what i should run on my HQs for empire.
First of all its characters not HQs we are not playing 40k here

So far I am possibly looking at 1 General
Generals of the empire currently are a waste of time, if your wanting a combat monster (not that empire do combat monster's very well) TGM are better and archlectors tend to be more hitty due to hatred
1 Battle Wizard lord (not sure on lore but i may go light for the buffs)
The issue with light is that depending on what spells you get forces you on how you play, if you get banishment, net and shems you prob want to be defensive where as if you get speed of light and time warp you want to be in combat and you might not always get the spells you want
1 captain BSB (If any character needs to run item light it will be him)
Depends on where your putting him, put him in a bunker at the back and full plate and shield is probably all you need
1 battle wizard (thinking Lore of fire on him)
Fire is o.k. but empire doesn't realy stuggle clearing chaff
1 Master engineer (not sure what weapon would be good for him but will mainly hang out with artillery
naked is best most of the time I find, first turn he can be helping cannons, the second turn making your volly guns in to super reliable sniper volly guns!
1 witchhunter (Cant leave home without the bad ass hat now can we)
not had a lot of experance with them but prob best just a bop and leave him cheep and cheerful
4 Warrior priests (One is going to be converted into a Warrior priest of Ulric to hang out with my White wolves. The prayers names get changed but that is about it, Shield of Faith is now protection of the Pack, Soulfire is Winter's Breath, and Hammer of Sigmar is now Fangs of Ulric. One of the other Priests will be mounted with my other knights)
bacicly make them cheep and survivable- most people know its the warrior priests that make the army work, so giving them things like the enchanted shield/dragon helm/helm of skavenslayer for a reasonably cheep 3+/6+ armour save is what I normaly do- no point kitting him out defensivly to the max as if your going that expensive you might as well have just got a second priest to stick in the unit

So army wise I am still thinking of what all will be in there But for core i will be running at least 2 Knight units with one being White wolves. A unit of swordsmen with detachment of halberds and a unit of handgunners and archers (not sure if i will put a detachment with them but it might just be more handgunners as a detach.
Special wise will be greatswords and then artillery prob a pair of great canons

All comments in quote all of the knight units are very good, swordsmen are a bit meh compared to halberds but can work 5 man archer detachments are the best things in the book in my view (35 point chaff blocks for redirecting!)

Lord Solar Plexus
04-06-2013, 12:48
Well, in a 10k game go ahead and splurge whatever you like.

Aunodin
04-06-2013, 13:20
We are gearing up for a weekend of gaming with a massive battle going we have about 5k points to spend but this is really my first foray into an empire army as I mainly stick to high elves with fantasy (I will be using stand ins atm to get my numbers up I don't have a large empire force atm) The HQ thing is just what my group refers to characters since we play 40k and when we play warmachine characters are not really leaders of the army.

So what exactly makes a general bad then? From what I have read he is a good character to have in your army. I mainly wanted a foot general since I am putting priests into my 2 knight orders.

A Level 4 wizard with lore of light i always found pretty useful and I figured lore of fire on my hero wiz would just be fun for bright wizard fun. Are there generally better lores then to go with for empire?

I figured swordsmen where a better choice all around since the have the higher WS and better armor save to have as a big block of people for more staying power and can serve as a good anvil while the halberds charge into the flanks and with help from my knights (A tactic i use a lot with my high elves)

I have yet to actually find an empire tactica for 8th edition so i am going in pretty blind since we do not have an empire player in our group (its mainly Two High elf players including me, Skaven, Orcs, Bretonia, Dark Elves, Dwarves, and finally warriors of chaos) The only thing I have found is the 1d4chan article http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer/Tactics/Empire

My list is still a work in progress and I am just looking up more info.

Wesser
04-06-2013, 13:34
Empire often ends up with a slew of heroes and spending a lot of them makes no sense.

For a Wizard Lord I usually go barebones except the occasional dispel scroll. Very few Arcane/Enchanted items makes sense anyway. And a ward save? If he needs it he tends to end up dead anyway.

For all other characters you usually end up with the realisation that if you put say Armour of Meteoric Iron on your Warrior Priest to protect him, you could for a few points more have bought two Warrior Priests instead.

Empire character are poor enough fighters that actually spending on magic weapons doesn't make sense over taking a lance or greatweapon and proctecting them just up's their cost.

Same consideration goes to The Runefang. You could take a Grand Master with that and Other Trickster's Shard or for a few points more you could have two Grand Masters with Greatweapon or lance.

The one exception is the War Altar. Due to the range of prayers cast from it, and the bonus range of his LD (if he's the General) it makes a ton of sense to protect the Arch Lector.

But apart from that two is always better than one in an Empire Army. Same really for those armies with cheaper characters such as goblins or Skaven

Lord Solar Plexus
04-06-2013, 13:46
Empire characters are all about supporting the rest, neither massively fighty nor unusually skilled in magic. That means you're mostly better off to keep it simple - armour, perhaps a ward of your General, Standard Bearer and/or big wizard, and a cheap magic weapon just in case you meet ethereals.

In general, all Empire characters have their use. The General of the Empire gives you Ld 9 and Hold the Line. Full plate, enchanted shield, a ward, done. Of course you can always give him a Crown of Command or a Ruby Ring or some such, that shouldn't be a problem. However: All he does is keep the army together and hopefully not die himself.

If you want some more aggressive support, an Archlector is nearly always the better choice. Okay, he cannot get a pistol, shame, but he provides hatred and three prayers which are considerable boosts because they allow you to win fights you otherwise wouldn't - and winning is better than being better at losing like the GotE.

A BSB Captain is self-explaining. Brings HtL, thereby making the GotE even less attractive. A Captasus is very nice if you have a model (I suggest a Bretonnian one or three). Very mobile, very good WM and chaff hunter, can chase down fleeing units with ease, good save. Lance, shield, dragonhelm, something like this. Three wounds!

An L4 is a must at 5k. Better bring two. Light, Shadow, Heavens, Life, Fire, Death...take your pick. I personally don't think there's a really bad lore. Heck, with 10+ characters, Beasts is suddenly looking great. I personally currently prefer Heavens because of its wide range of useful options. So fun when comp bans #6 spells and I get to throw Comets... :) Fire is very, very solid for a backup L2.

The discussions about which State Troops are best must fill libraries. WS is not that important. Strength affects both to wound and your opponent's AS, so is often doubly useful, and people like to kill stuff, so Halberdiers are popular. Similarly, Spearmen bring more bodies to the table, which can often be much more important than WS and armour. I like them all. What matters more is how you use them - your idea about the flank charges / hammer and anvil is spot on. I ran down Chaos Warriors with my Spearmen + Halberdier detachment on the weekend, so it's not as if they couldn't kill anything.

Your best resource for Empire Tactics is www.warhammer-empire.com, although it seems to be down today. Look for the Tactical Decision Games, they really demonstrate what works well and why.

Shidensen
04-06-2013, 17:01
General of the Empire is good to have but depending on your list, he isn't really needed (I love the idea of one so I try to use him). If I have a horde of Halberdiers and a unit of Greatswords, he always goes with the Greatswords. However, if I don't have that second infantry unit or put him on a Griffon...I'll use an Arch Lector instead. I give him some magic items to make him better (usually Enchanted Shield, 5+ ward, full plate and Sword of Might) but you don't want him too costly. Arch Lector gets a similar loadout if he's on foot in a unit.

Battle Wizard Lord rarely gets anything more than Dispel Scroll or Power Stone from me, any regular Battle Wizard is dispel scroll or nothing.

Warrior Priests I run very light, usually just heavy armor and shield, and only rarely give them magic armor (unless he is the entire key of the army, then he's usually an Arch Lector and gets some good protection)

Captains I give them some armor and sometimes a ward save, usually this guy holds my Crown of Command though.

Master Engineers get nothing 90% of the time. Unless you want to have fun with Pigeon Bombs or a Hochland Long Rifle.

I've never used Witch Hunters before so I don't know. TGM the Runefang/OTS combo seems to work well from what I've heard.

Aunodin
04-06-2013, 18:42
So this is what i have so far for characters based off of tips here and what i have read
General Enchanted shieldcrown of command White Cloak Shrieking blade full plate total
Captain BSB Helm of the skaven slayer total
2x Battle Wizard lords
Battle Wizard
Master engineer light armor
Witch hunter brace of pistols
2x warrior priestsHorse with barding Heavy Armor Greatweapon
2x warrior priests heavy armor shield

My General is mainly there to stick in my swordsman horde (Imma stick with swordsmen being my main state troopers but my detachments will mainly be halberd)
Both of the mounted priests will be going into my 2 knights (my white wolves im probably going to upgrad to inner circle since who does not love strength 6 hits) I am not sure if I want to change the them to have shields as well.
For lores i am thinking light and life on my wizard lords and fire on my battle wizard. Still deciding on this though
My great swords will probably have 1 of my warrior priests and maybe my witch hunter as well (I am going to go with the archer detachment someone suggested for them)
Not sure for my 2 foot warrior priests if i should change what they have or not for instance go 2 hand weapons.
The engineer i felt just needed some armor at least but going to leave him bare mostly.
I thought of the arch lector but even though i like him i need my swordsmen not to break so that is why i went with the general
I could probably drop one of the Warrior priests for more magic items though. Thoughts on this?

My Swords unit will be supported by a halberd detachment. I am looking at 30 to 40 swordsmen so the detach will at most give me a nice 20 man halbard team to help the flanks.
Great swords will most likely be 30 men strong with maybe full command and a 10 man archer detachment
then 2 10 man hand gunner units
and maybe a 20 man halberd squad with a 10 man archer detachment
Of course 2x knight orders one of which is white wolves so with great hammers the other still debating on the order.

But ya thats what i got so far so thoughts on it?

Ya site is down for me as well but i will be going there later if it is up

danny-d-b
04-06-2013, 19:31
Don't put what each items costs you will make GW and warseer angry :mad:

as I said before everything the general of the empire offers you, the arch lector gives you for free- and don't feel like you need to use up every magic point of meaning less kit
in fact that seems to be the issue most of your guys have meaninless kit, like why have the helm of skaven slayer on a guy obviously designed to never see combat?

also you want your warrior priest as defensive as possible, 2 S6 attacks arn't going to help you if you lose hatred cos you fail a couple of vital 4+ saves they should always be armed with shields

Commodus Leitdorf
04-06-2013, 20:30
General rule of thumb is keep them cheap, if you follow this rule you'll be fine.

But then again I don't use any magic items at all anymore, so take what I say with a grain of salt ;)

Aunodin
04-06-2013, 20:55
Don't put what each items costs you will make GW and warseer angry :mad:

as I said before everything the general of the empire offers you, the arch lector gives you for free- and don't feel like you need to use up every magic point of meaning less kit
in fact that seems to be the issue most of your guys have meaninless kit, like why have the helm of skaven slayer on a guy obviously designed to never see combat?

also you want your warrior priest as defensive as possible, 2 S6 attacks arn't going to help you if you lose hatred cos you fail a couple of vital 4+ saves they should always be armed with shields

Ya sorry about the point thing took that out I did a copy paste from worksheet so there is where it came from

The helm is mainly for the armor save and the chance that fear will save him(with this he has a 2+ armor save and fear, plus one of the people i will be fighting is skaven so terror will be extremely helpful.) The main plan for him is to hold up with my Halberd unit which is going to be my troubleshooting unit sort of behind my main line to shore it up (I use the same tactic with a small unit of Sea Guard) Admittedly pistoliers would be better in this role I will prob not be taking them. Though if the main agreement is that is unnessary then i can take that out (this will give me enough points for a dispel scroll since i am right now only 13 points away for limit on characters)

Ya i know the arch lector will do good in the list but he doesn't have Hold the line which is why I took the general for my swordsmen unit. Since he can also cause fear and the white cloak makes rolls worse he can get that fear off a lot easier therefore keeping my staying power good with swordsmen. I might stick my other Priest in there as well which will give me hold the line and hatred as well in that unit.

With the barbed mount they have a 3+ save but ya i will prob switch that out then for shields so they both have 2+

Lord Solar Plexus
05-06-2013, 06:36
The Helm is okay for what it does, although causing fear is more a gimmick. Against Skaven though I would never take it, that's way too dangerous. They're also the least likely to fail a terror test (barring Undead and unusual circumstances). Don't count on terror doing anything. Good armour on your BSB is definitively worth the expense, he's one of your most important models.

I don't quite understand your reasoning behind the "troubleshooting unit". A detachment of 20 Halberdiers can certainly be useful but not behind your line. IME that usually leads to a piecemeal defeat and leaves both "lines" (it's just two units more or less) weaker. I also don't see how Pistoliers would be better in this role - they're not supposed to dally behind your lines but get up front asap and run interference.

You need to read up on the White Cloak again. This item doesn't help with causing fear at all. You won't be hit much if the opposition fails a fear test, that's true, but the White Cloak doesn't help to "get fear off a lot easier".

Oh, one more thing. It's "barded". Chaos Steeds are barbed.

Aunodin
05-06-2013, 12:24
The Helm is okay for what it does, although causing fear is more a gimmick. Against Skaven though I would never take it, that's way too dangerous. They're also the least likely to fail a terror test (barring Undead and unusual circumstances). Don't count on terror doing anything. Good armour on your BSB is definitively worth the expense, he's one of your most important models.

that is true hmmm the only problem as the list stands for characters im at 1235 points since i have gotten rid of the great weapons on the priests and gave them shields. So that leaves me with 15 points to play around with. I could go a dragon helm and dawn stone on him which will give me a 2+ armor save and would then leave me 10 points left for characters.


I don't quite understand your reasoning behind the "troubleshooting unit". A detachment of 20 Halberdiers can certainly be useful but not behind your line. IME that usually leads to a piecemeal defeat and leaves both "lines" (it's just two units more or less) weaker. I also don't see how Pistoliers would be better in this role - they're not supposed to dally behind your lines but get up front asap and run interference.

That might be a tactic better served leaving to the high elves then. It is mainly a tactic i use to keep my eagle throwers and mages safe from out flankers or if one of my units break. Seaguard is pretty good with it since they can still be useful and shoot as well while hanging around behind the lines.

I might want to boost the unit of halberds up to at least 30 then (I have plenty of points to spend still)


You need to read up on the White Cloak again. This item doesn't help with causing fear at all. You won't be hit much if the opposition fails a fear test, that's true, but the White Cloak doesn't help to "get fear off a lot easier".

For some reason i was reading it for all rolls to suffer a -1


Oh, one more thing. It's "barded". Chaos Steeds are barbed.

sorry typo

Well anyways I have 6 pieces of artillery atm 4 great cannons and 2 Helstorm rockets. Like i said earlier i got plenty of points any thoughts on adding more? Now then with this much artillery as I have should i drop a priest so i can grab another engineer then and set up 2 separate artillery batteries?

Looks like i can also throw in another unit of state troops with detach and still have room for pistoliers. Or should i look into a steam tank?

Lord Solar Plexus
05-06-2013, 14:30
No probs, man. ;) Definitively look into a STank! It's a great tarpit, makes Elites cry, provides a means for crowd control wit hthe steam gun AND comes with a freaking cannon. Plus random movement, which admittedly can be a boon and a disadvantage, and three shots from the Engineer...awesome for that price.

Pistoliers are nice but you need to use them against the right targets in the right way.

As to warmachines, 4 cannon + STank is a bit overkill IMO. Two of those and a STank should suffice even at 5k...but you call the shots (scuse the pun). Cannon and Rockets don't need Engineers; for a Volley Gun they're a must. Forming batteries sounds good but remember that each Engineer can only aid a single piece each turn and has to decide which he will aid before you fire it. Volley Guns + Engineers are usually anywhere between decent/nifty and outrageously great.

Aunodin
07-06-2013, 14:39
Alright this is what I got so far

General Enchanted shield crown of command White Cloak Shrieking blade full plate
Captain BSB Helm of the skaven slayer
2x Battle Wizard lords Light and Life possibly
Battle Wizard Fire
2x Master engineer light armor
Witch hunter brace of pistols
2x warrior priests Horse with barding Heavy Armor shield
warrior priests heavy armor shield

Well then this is what I have now with 20pts left over for spending on stuff on Characters. I was thinking dispel scroll (always handy) but then again I will have a ton of dispel dice available so maybe another item on a different character.

My plans for character placement is the two mounted warrior priests for the knights dismounted one in greatswords.

The general will be with my swordsmen and captain will be with my unit of Halberds. The witch hunter may join either unit.

Wizards will pal around with my handgunners and crossbows. While engineers will be in both of my artillery batteries.

I am thinking I may replace the rockets with the volley guns. My warmachines will be then 4 cannons and 2 volley guns if I do that. I will also run a steam tank

For lores any suggestions of changing what I got?

Ah btw Lord Solar my girlfriend liked your sig since she is also from Germany.

Aunodin
13-06-2013, 02:48
I just want to thank everyone who helped me figure out what I needed for my characters for my game. It was a good first foray into the Empire and I came through the weekend undefeated in my 1v1 and 3v3 games. My general worked exactly like I needed him to as well so there was a really good drop of points right there (It got to the point that my foes actually did everything they could to kill him however he eked out the end of the 3v3 game with 1 wound left.) I ended up palling my witch hunter with my General to help against magic. My magic phase was pretty crazy since i had a ton of dice to do what i wanted with them.

Overall though things I may change if I do this again is maybe swap out some lores on my wizards. Fire was good but i may go for death next time and light helped but may try out beasts for him next.
Anyway just wanted to relay that information and to thank you guys

Lord Solar Plexus
13-06-2013, 09:39
Captain BSB Helm of the skaven slayer
2x Battle Wizard lords Light and Life possibly
Battle Wizard Fire
2x Master engineer light armor
Witch hunter brace of pistols
2x warrior priests Horse with barding Heavy Armor shield
warrior priests heavy armor shield


Looks pretty solid. Allow me to add some random points:

1. The Captain needs full plate and a shield, preferably a ward. He's important.
2. Your wizards could get a few nifty items. A channeling staff, dispel scroll, power stone, 4+ ward save scroll, even the frog scroll for an opposing L1/2. You might want to keep it light though. I find if I take too much stuff I will forget half of it.
3. ME's don't need light armour.
4. The foot priest could do with a Dragonhelm, I'm sure he will be targetted. In general I'd rather drop one character and have the others well-equipped than vice versa.

The placement sounds good!



Ah btw Lord Solar my girlfriend liked your sig since she is also from Germany.

Haha, nothing beats some good aulde fun, and this Mr Clemens certainly had a flair for it. :)

Aunodin
13-06-2013, 16:34
ah ya he was running around with full plate and shield forgot to note it. Ya I kept no items on the wizards since i was low on points for hqs. The lvl 2 wizard ran around with a dispeal scroll but i forgot about it.
Ya next time i will just save those 2 points on my MEs I figured why not at the time but ya didn't really need them.
Dragon helm will definatly be something I will put on the list next time if i have the points though

Fieos
13-06-2013, 16:44
I recommend gearing your Ld characters defensively.

BSB - Full Plate + Enchanted Shield + Dawnstone.
That equates to a 2+AS that is rerollable for the some point value as 6 Free Company.

GotE or AL I recommend Armor of Meteoric Iron and the Talisman of Preservation if on foot or on the War Altar

Wizard Lords should only have a dispel scroll as they won't need much when they are sucked into the Warp.

If you aren't worried about LoS rolls then you can throw those characters on horses for added defense.