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View Full Version : Apocalypse next month!! Wishes and speculations.



terradax
05-06-2013, 14:19
With the leaked WD cover for next months issue, I think it's pretty safe to say that next month is the re-release of Apocalypse.

We've seen the Lord of Battle and the huge Necron Monolith, we've hated them, loved them, joked about them and so on.

But what about the rest of the book? What do you think will be in it?

How will GW handle Super Heavies for example? With the addition of Hull points in 6th ed, adding Structure points will be very confusing.
Will there be more hull points instead? What kind of missions will there be? How are allies supposed to work? Warlords? Challenges?

What are your thoughts?

Kijamon
05-06-2013, 14:49
Heresy book makes each SP count as 3 HP with some extra rules.

I can see that being how they do it.

Cheeslord
05-06-2013, 14:52
This time round I would like to see Apocalypse have some semblance of balance. Not much (I don't expect miracles), but maybe as much as regular 40k.

That said I would also like it to be true to (what I feel is) its core concept of allowing you to plonk your entire collection on the table at once.

Mark.

Konovalev
05-06-2013, 14:56
I'm interested in seeing how, or if they balance tablewide effects like the Stormlords lightning ability and the demons warp storm effects.

gwarsh41
05-06-2013, 17:15
There might be truth to the plastic greater daemons that were rumored!

MajorWesJanson
05-06-2013, 17:41
Heresy book makes each SP count as 3 HP with some extra rules.

I can see that being how they do it.

My hope for how Superheavies and Destroyer weapons change:
Superheavy Vehicle: Heavy Vehicle rules plus:
May choose separate targets for each weapon. All targets must be declared before resolving any shots.
Firing Ordinance weapons does not limit other weapons to snapfiring
2+ save vs crew shaken results, 4+ vs crew stunned.
Explodes results on the vehicle damage chart are instead resolved as "Chain Reaction- remove d3 additional hull points and then roll again (with no modifiers) on the damage chart. If reduced to 0 hull points by this attack, the vehicle explodes cataclysmicly, dealing a S6 AP- hit to all models within 2d6"

Destroyer becomes a weapon modifier Destroyer (x)
Models that take an unsaved wound from a destroyer weapon lose x additional wounds
Vehicles glanced by a Destroyer weapon lose X additional hull points.
Vehicles penetrated by a destroyer weapon add x to any rolls on the vehicle damage chart.

Killgore
05-06-2013, 20:08
I want Destroyers to be altered so that they no longer auto instantkill.

I don't really care how, I just want my greater daemons to last abit longer!

terradax
05-06-2013, 20:25
The whole 3 HP per ST is very confusing as you have to keep count of how many Hull points AND Structure points the vehicle have left. Why not increase the Hull points to 10-12?

Ozendorph
05-06-2013, 21:14
Destroyer becomes a weapon modifier Destroyer (x)
Models that take an unsaved wound from a destroyer weapon lose x additional wounds
Vehicles glanced by a Destroyer weapon lose X additional hull points.
Vehicles penetrated by a destroyer weapon add x to any rolls on the vehicle damage chart.

That's not bad, but the whole system you described is predicated on D Weapons potentially producing something other than a successful wound/penetration (currently these results are automatic). Are you suggesting they have a basic strength value (likely 10 in a lot of cases) and the Destroyer rule in addition?

As usual I'm compelled to mention - I hope there is a real effort in the writing of the Apoc rules to streamline the 6th Ed game play. We regularly fielded 8-12,000 point forces in 4th/5th Apocalypse, but I could not see that scale of game being in anyway fun with the current core rules.

MajorWesJanson
05-06-2013, 22:16
That's not bad, but the whole system you described is predicated on D Weapons potentially producing something other than a successful wound/penetration (currently these results are automatic). Are you suggesting they have a basic strength value (likely 10 in a lot of cases) and the Destroyer rule in addition?

Yes. Destroyer becomes a special rule like shred or haywire, rather than a strength value. I'd also like to see the normal limits on stats raised some for the larger stuff- AV 15 for Titans, Strength 11-14 for weapons, 1+ saves (fail on a roll of 1 but immune to AP2), wound totals above 10 for gargantuan creatures.


The whole 3 HP per ST is very confusing as you have to keep count of how many Hull points AND Structure points the vehicle have left. Why not increase the Hull points to 10-12?

I would do that too. 3 Hull points per structure point, and for the purposes of void shields, you get to roll one dice per 3 hull points (rounding up) to raise them.

Fawful
05-06-2013, 22:34
Some of the things mentioned were already faqed in the forgeworld apocalypse update. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/a/apoc6thupdate.pdf

Other than that I'd like to see strength D become something akin to s11. So it still hurts everything on a 3+ at the very least but it doesn't automatically destroy everything it hits. Imo it shouldn't ignore cover either, so maybe it could add a modifier instead. Something like -2 seems reasonable.

I'd like to see some more balance as well. Stratagems that don't ruin the game for the other player(s) and some interesting scenario's where certain types of units are more useful or at least usable. Just something to prevent the game from becoming a pie plate exchange.

Ozendorph
05-06-2013, 22:51
@Wes: I'd be completely fine with that Destroyer change. In fact, it'd improve the game substantially, due to how D weapons currently affect Super Heavies vs. Gargantuans (Hierophant cares not about your puny Volcano Cannon). I'd also like to see "pinpoint" D weapons like Turbo Lasers reduced to a small blast. There needs to be more variation among the D weapons, and more reason to take non-destroyer options in some cases. I get asked why I don't take all lasers on my titans, and I don't have any good reason beyond personal preference and enjoying diversity.

I'm all for "un-capping" the stats, where SH and Gargantuans are concerned. The ceiling in "standard" 40K has to be low enough that conventional armies should have a reasonable chance to deal with the Big Bad Guy. In Apocalypse, player expectations and destructive capabilities are far different.

MajorWesJanson
06-06-2013, 01:30
On the model front, since Khorne is getting the Lord of Battles/Deathdealer, I'd like to see the other three gods get their own superheavies.
Slaanesh has the Questor/Subjugator knight.
Nurgle has the Plague Tower and the Contagion seige engine, which could be modified to share a closer design.
Tzeentch has the Silver tower (which would be less wide but taller than the necron Megalith)

Given how the IG Shadowsword is just a different turret and weapon on the baneblade sprue, I'd like to see a variant Stompa that replaces the two weapon arm sprues with different weapon options, and parts for a belly gun.

neko
06-06-2013, 03:58
Wishlisting:
- Tau superheavy tank. (I'm thinking something like a cross between an Orca and a Hammerhead.)
- Plastic Warhound titan.
- Rules for titan sized greater daemons and C'Tan.

Speculation:
- None of the above.

KR3LL
06-06-2013, 04:54
I hate the model on the cover of WD for chaos.
I hope CD get bigger daemons
I Hope Orks get something new and big, but I doubt they will as they already have the stompa.

The only realistic thing I am looking forward to is the large box sets they came out with last time, that were really good deals on large amounts of models.

FashaTheDog
06-06-2013, 06:15
Given how the IG Shadowsword is just a different turret and weapon on the baneblade sprue, I'd like to see a variant Stompa that replaces the two weapon arm sprues with different weapon options, and parts for a belly gun.

Wish granted! ...Sort of.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Orks/ORK_INFANTRY_AND_WALKERS/ORK-STOMPA-BELLY-GUN.html
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Orks/ORK_INFANTRY_AND_WALKERS/ORK-STOMPA-CLAW-ARM.html
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Orks/ORK_INFANTRY_AND_WALKERS/ORK-STOMPA-LIFTA-DROPPA-ARM.html
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Orks/ORK_INFANTRY_AND_WALKERS/ORK-STOMPA-HEAD.html

Killgore
06-06-2013, 09:06
I would GW to include optional rules to 'upgun' their new range of 40k big models.

For example Destroyer options for Riptide and Wraithknight, and gargantuan creature status for Mawloc etc

Binky
06-06-2013, 09:44
Yep, would definitely like to see a change to the D weapon rules as at the moment it's a real no brainer to just stick as many turbo lasers as possible onto a Titan (from a purely damage output perspective), especially against other super heavies where you're pretty much guaranteed to hit with every shot, and therefore a turbo laser destructor is three time more effective than a volcano cannon!

Maybe just making just the centre hole of the blast strength D and giving different strengths and AP for the rest of the template, so volcano cannon could be S10, turbo something lower. So the volcano cannon could more easily blow away large areas of weak targets and would be more likely to damage a super heavy even without a direct hit, whereas the turbo laser would require direct hits to damage super heavies and each shot wouldn't be as effective against groups.

Would love to see some more advanced rules for titans that move beyond the normal vehicle rules, but can't see that happening.

Cheexsta
06-06-2013, 09:48
Thoughts on force organisation:

1. Ditch Primary and Allied detachments. Introduce "Apocalypse Detachments" with following slots: 1+ HQ, 2+ Troops, 0+ Elites, 0+ Fast Attack, 0+ Heavy Support, 0-1 Fortification, 0-1 Super Heavy or Gargantuan Creature. All models in a detachment must come from the same codex (with Apoc units being linked to certain codices), and their transports can only be ridden by models from the same detachment. Any army-wide bonuses (e.g. Chapter Traits) apply only to models within the same detachment.
2. Allow non-Apoc models to be taken outside of detachments. This means that you can still take an army of your entire collection, including those one-off models you bought just to paint, which is a major part of the current Apoc rules while still providing a limit for Apoc units.
3. Rules for allies apply on a unit-by-unit basis, with "Come the Apocalypse..." allies becoming Desperate Allies instead.


My hope for how Superheavies and Destroyer weapons change:
Superheavy Vehicle: Heavy Vehicle rules plus:
May choose separate targets for each weapon. All targets must be declared before resolving any shots.
Firing Ordinance weapons does not limit other weapons to snapfiring
2+ save vs crew shaken results, 4+ vs crew stunned.
Explodes results on the vehicle damage chart are instead resolved as "Chain Reaction- remove d3 additional hull points and then roll again (with no modifiers) on the damage chart. If reduced to 0 hull points by this attack, the vehicle explodes cataclysmicly, dealing a S6 AP- hit to all models within 2d6"

Destroyer becomes a weapon modifier Destroyer (x)
Models that take an unsaved wound from a destroyer weapon lose x additional wounds
Vehicles glanced by a Destroyer weapon lose X additional hull points.
Vehicles penetrated by a destroyer weapon add x to any rolls on the vehicle damage chart.
You make too much sense. Stop it. :p

I'd be really happy if these rules became standard. They're simple and potentially powerful. I also like your idea of "supersizing" things for Apoc - 1+ saves, AV15+, Strength 11+, etc.