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Greyhound
26-06-2013, 06:16
I'm in the process of building an ork fort made out of wooden sticks,which fits really well with my snakebite army.
The fort is coming along and I started looking at how the rules would work.

As it turns out, wooden walls are AV10, and the building damage chart in the book completely hose the idea of having my lads in the fort.
I'm new to 40k so please help me if I get this wrong,

1) I use the fort walls as a wooden buildings (AV10)
If I read correctly this means that a wooden building can be shot at easily and the chart will likely cause:
- all my boys to snapshots OR
- take hits, for all of them.

2) If I use the fort walls as "ruins" however the building can't be shot and my boys now have cover.
- the enemy can go through the walls/assault as difficult terrain
- I need to make sure therer's enough holes and windows to allow "true LOS"

does that mean that strictly speaking rule-wise a wooden building is a complete disaster, whereas ruins will be working much better?

MasterDecoy
26-06-2013, 11:04
1: orks are bs 2, snapshots don't bother them much
2: it makes them immune to s3 weapons and they will need 6s to wound your guys with boltersand you still get your Armor save
I'd say it's easily worth it

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Apologist
26-06-2013, 11:33
Alternatively, perhaps you could add some rubble in gaps and model it as a wooden facing on a stone/caged rubble wall? Building a fort from gabions would be a great way to keep the primitive feel while still having it as a worthwhile defence.

Cheeslord
26-06-2013, 11:36
it kind of depends on who you play with. If a building is made out of wood but has obviously very thick reenforced structure I would be happy for it to have a couple of points more AV. Of course, it would only be fair if the other player had similar beneficial terrain at their disposal (unless you want to make rules for it as a purchasable fortification).

Also bear in mind that the average soldier had frag and krak grenades so can potentially do crazy amounts of damage using Grenades if they reach the building regardless of AV.

Mark.

Greyhound
26-06-2013, 12:43
The terrain is meant for any player with the fort spreading all over the board. I just realised that with AV10, glancing, and the building chart, small firearms can hit 30 models in one hit...

I thought putting your unit in a wooden building would make them safer than staying in the open but apparently it doesn't.

Lord-Gen Bale Chambers
26-06-2013, 13:59
There is a difference between a building and a fort(just not in the rules). You could justify that the fort is reinforced with other materials and thick walls making it av 11, making it immune to small arms (except for tau).

Buildings are only more dangerous because they can collapse if destroyed or are very vulnerable to grenades in an assault. Otherwise you can shoot from one without worrying about anything but anti-tank weapons or flamers (which probably will occur before an assault with grenades anyway).

brionl
27-06-2013, 02:18
Or you could just paint it concrete or metal color. Nobody makes people use AV10 because the GW bunkers are made out of plastic.

MasterDecoy
27-06-2013, 02:34
You don't roll on the chart for glancing hits. I don't understand how you think bolters wounding your guys on 6s instead of 4s makes them less survivable

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Greyhound
27-06-2013, 09:33
It was more that 4 bolters hits can take up to 4 of my guys in the open, whereas one single "6" can take out half the unit in the building.

Or am I reading wrong?

Greyhound
27-06-2013, 09:35
Or you could just paint it concrete or metal color. Nobody makes people use AV10 because the GW bunkers are made out of plastic.

That's kind of where I was going to. There are rules for AV9-10-11-12-and-13 buildings but they seemed a little underwhelming.

Ruins rule look better on paper (to a noob) than the rules for AV10 buildings.

Felwether
27-06-2013, 10:13
The problem is that the rules for ruins don't represent a fort particularly well because you can just walk through the walls. I suppose you could just model it to have lots of holes in it!

MasterDecoy
27-06-2013, 10:41
It was more that 4 bolters hits can take up to 4 of my guys in the open, whereas one single "6" can take out half the unit in the building.

Or am I reading wrong?

Pretty sure your reading that wrong, VERY VERY WRONG, Read the rules again, twice carefully, 3 times to be sure.
a single glancing hit on the building does a single wound, that ignores cover, but not armour to a guy of your choice within the building,
a single penetrating hit on the building (requiring at least S5) does a single wound that ignores cover, but not armour to a guy of your choice inside the building and a roll on the table,

bolters alone have no hope of doing much damage, heavy bolters can do some damage, but are unlikely to do that much, its not until you get S6+ weaponry until your guys should start being worried, and the player only has a 50% chance of doing any wounds to the guys inside without ap2 weaponry.

Really
S4 needs to roll to hit, then a 6 to wound
S5 needs to roll to hit, a 5 to wound or a 6 to have a 50% chance to do anything further
In all cases you get your armour save to any wounds caused

Asura Varuna
27-06-2013, 10:50
Just checking, does the AP of the weapon affect the armour save of the unit inside the building? Eg, would a Ork get his 6+ save against a wound caused by a glancing hit from a Plasma gun?

Blinder
27-06-2013, 20:45
The problem is that the rules for ruins don't represent a fort particularly well because you can just walk through the walls. I suppose you could just model it to have lots of holes in it!

You can also agree that the ruin is of the "can't walk through the walls" variety if you think the "ruins" rules work better than the "building" rules.

Also, I'd think an actual "fort" would be more than just a "wooden building wall," or at least easily justified as such. A log cabin, AV10. 3-foot-thick palisade? Probably works out to a little more, but it's orky so not *that* much more :)