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Tyrelli
29-06-2013, 07:34
So The Lord of skulls, all fine and dandy but what if you have a slaanesh force ? Or a thousand sons warband ? What fluffy way could you add a LoS ?
Would have been better if the LoS had been a generic chaos thing not being exclusive to one god .. Khorne always seems to get preferential treatment ...

slave
29-06-2013, 07:48
I went down this route once, you had better get your asbestos suit on, extra quick.

As a Slaanesh player, I agree with you. The only demon weapon in the codex is the stupid axe. on the other hand, berzerkers blow, and noise marines are killer multipurpose marines, especially if you put the banner on them.

The Slaanesh characters will hit first, but have no real way to deal with those pesky 2+ saves on the characters, leaving you to hunt squad leaders instead, with your lord. Power weapons will kill Squad leaders, but will be laughed at by characters, unless you are fighting chaos characters, since we can only use terminator armor for that 2+.

It's six of one, or half dozen of the other(pun semi intended). I still think Slaanesh comes out ahead, especially since the sonic weapons ignore cover.

Hendarion
29-06-2013, 07:50
Wrong section.

TheBearminator
29-06-2013, 07:56
So The Lord of skulls, all fine and dandy but what if you have a slaanesh force ?

Paint it pink? ;)

No, I was just gonna start my own Lord of skulls thread. To me the whole model is a mystery. It's not only very Khorne exclusive, it's whole appearance is so awfully childish. Now, I don't know the chaos fluff very well so I don't know what part the LoS plays. But even if you recast models from the 80's you don't wanna embarrass players more than you have to, right?

MajorWesJanson
29-06-2013, 08:09
So The Lord of skulls, all fine and dandy but what if you have a slaanesh force ? Or a thousand sons warband ? What fluffy way could you add a LoS ?
Would have been better if the LoS had been a generic chaos thing not being exclusive to one god .. Khorne always seems to get preferential treatment ...

Khorne has always been the god biggest on Daemon Engines.

That said, eventually more god specific ones could come along- Slaanesh had the Subjugator scout titan and the Hellknight/Questor/Hellstrider (sounds like a good opportunity for a $115 dual kit the size of the Wraithknight). Tzeentch had the Silver Tower, and a couple of fliers. Nurgle has the Plague Tower and Contagion Engine.


Paint it pink? ;)

No, I was just gonna start my own Lord of skulls thread. To me the whole model is a mystery. It's not only very Khorne exclusive, it's whole appearance is so awfully childish. Now, I don't know the chaos fluff very well so I don't know what part the LoS plays. But even if you recast models from the 80's you don't wanna embarrass players more than you have to, right?

The LoS model is a cross between the old Lord of Battle and the Deathdealer from Epic.

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Tyrelli
29-06-2013, 08:32
Wrong section.

Oops your right, please move to general

Tyrelli
29-06-2013, 12:07
Could one of these be "captured" and have say slaanesh symbols scrawled all over it ?

jason_sation
29-06-2013, 12:32
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod2130072a

The official description says "This model can be used by every Warhammer 40,000 player in games of Apocalypse." So games workshop has got this base covered, haha!

But yeah, it does seem a little too specific for which armies would want to use this. That beig said I can't wait to see a "looted" Ork variant!

ArtificerArmour
29-06-2013, 13:40
I can't hear you, as I'm a long term khorne player and this models drowning you out with its awesumness

Worldeaters
29-06-2013, 13:47
Haven't you heard? According to GW, mono god forces don't exist anymore! Everybody Is in a roaming warband of evil bosom buddies.

Also wrong section.

Inquisitor Kallus
29-06-2013, 14:04
If you have purely Slaanesh and want to keep in theme then simply don't take it. Im sure there are plenty of other formations you could use without resorting to another Chaos deity. Im sure the other gods will see something at a later date

Darnok
29-06-2013, 14:08
I think GW has failed with this one. While the model itself has its upsides - if you like the style, that is - it is obviously Khorne, and Khorne alone. I don't get why they made superheavy vehicle for a subfaction of an army. Instead of an impressive "generic" Chaos one. You can theme all the current CSM daemon machines to all four Chaosgods, or run them with any other Chaos subfaction - but good luck with making the LoB a believable Slaanesh vehicle. It won't work!

That said: in my opinion there needs to be some other Khorne presence on the field for the LoB to make an appearance. Either by allying with somebody who actually fields a Khorne-heavy force, or by getting at least a small Khornate section of your own.

But in the end it is up to the player, and his/her companions. If you are fine with a lone LoB joining the fight, all the power to you.

Spiney Norman
29-06-2013, 14:59
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod2130072a

The official description says "This model can be used by every Warhammer 40,000 player in games of Apocalypse." So games workshop has got this base covered, haha!

But yeah, it does seem a little too specific for which armies would want to use this. That beig said I can't wait to see a "looted" Ork variant!

Yep that line made me laugh, because I am really going add a lord of skulls to my sister of battle army

Azazel
29-06-2013, 15:21
Just get one of the Daemon Lords from Forgeworld. They will probably smash the Lord of Skulls pretty easily as well.

If this model had of been a generic 'Undivided' Daemon Engine I would have got one without a second thought. But I'll just stick with my Daemon Lords for now.

Worldeaters
29-06-2013, 16:29
I think GW has failed with this one. While the model itself has its upsides - if you like the style, that is - it is obviously Khorne, and Khorne alone. I don't get why they made superheavy vehicle for a subfaction of an army. Instead of an impressive "generic" Chaos one. You can theme all the current CSM daemon machines to all four Chaosgods, or run them with any other Chaos subfaction - but good luck with making the LoB a believable Slaanesh vehicle. It won't work!

That said: in my opinion there needs to be some other Khorne presence on the field for the LoB to make an appearance. Either by allying with somebody who actually fields a Khorne-heavy force, or by getting at least a small Khornate section of your own.

But in the end it is up to the player, and his/her companions. If you are fine with a lone LoB joining the fight, all the power to you.

Agreed, just going off memory but pretty sure to take scorpion or blood slaughterer (I know this one isn't apoc) you have to include at least one squad of zerkers

3eland
29-06-2013, 16:55
Yep that line made me laugh, because I am really going add a lord of skulls to my sister of battle army

Or to my Tyranid force! Or any Grey Knight army lol
So bad.

Palvinore
29-06-2013, 17:02
GW has always hyped Khorne more and played up the whole skulls everywhere thing. I doubt there will be any return of the old Tzeentch flyers anytime soon as one could argue the Heldrakes are already them and the Silver Tower can be represented with floating tower scenery. The Slaanesh and Nurgle ones are also quite specific mono-god so don't know whether GW will figure not enough people will buy them. The Nurgle ones were big piles of rotting wood and decayed skin so not sure whether people would be willing to hand over money for stuff like that.

Radium
29-06-2013, 17:03
Yep that line made me laugh, because I am really going add a lord of skulls to my sister of battle army

It'll be the perfect companion for my Revenant and Wraithknights!

Sorry GW, not falling for that one.
And as others have already said: other Daemon Engines might come along some day, or you can just get some of the FW greater daemons (or start a Khorne force!)

Horus38
29-06-2013, 17:08
Yep that line made me laugh, because I am really going add a lord of skulls to my sister of battle army

Quoted for truth ^ My Eldar of Craftfworld Setar'Ian have decided to expand their warhost with the addition of Khorne super heavy daemon engines :rolleyes:

Lord Damocles
29-06-2013, 17:15
Apocalypse has been mixing completely inappropriate units together for years.

I don't really see anything new here :confused:

Darnok
29-06-2013, 17:33
The Nurgle ones were big piles of rotting wood and decayed skin so not sure whether people would be willing to hand over money for stuff like that.

That hasn't stopped them with... any other Nurgle model ever. :p


Apocalypse has been mixing completely inappropriate units together for years.

I don't really see anything new here :confused:

It's basically the same as with random SM players using a BB: some folks are fine with it, others... not so much. But in contrast to the pretty generic BB the LoB is very specific in its appearance. And believe it or not: there are enough people out there who are not happy with "mixing completely inappropriate units together".

3eland
29-06-2013, 18:09
........ there are enough people out there who are not happy with "mixing completely inappropriate units together".

I fall under this category, when I play Nids I don't see them working with ANY 40k army, even if Apoc changes the rules as a Tyranid is not going to go shoulder to shoulder with it's food lol
A the same time when I play Grey Knights, you would never see them go shoulder to shoulder with Daemons or Chaos Space Marines just to vanquish another foe.
There are some armies that would make sense, but others not so much.

Now, as looking at it solely as a game and not taking fluff or anything else in to account, then it wouldn't matter the combination of mixed units.

EDIT: I also believe that most players who make Daemon lists/Daemon themed CSM lists don't want to have to run multiple gods in their armies (even though it seems now a days a must), I mean the gods don't even like each other lol. Having to take the "new coolest thing that makes sense" in solely one single Daemon god's choice is breaking any fluffy armies people create. You can't really even convert the thing like you could the Titans.

thrawn
29-06-2013, 18:33
I think GW has failed with this one. While the model itself has its upsides - if you like the style, that is - it is obviously Khorne, and Khorne alone. I don't get why they made superheavy vehicle for a subfaction of an army. Instead of an impressive "generic" Chaos one. You can theme all the current CSM daemon machines to all four Chaosgods, or run them with any other Chaos subfaction - but good luck with making the LoB a believable Slaanesh vehicle. It won't work!

That said: in my opinion there needs to be some other Khorne presence on the field for the LoB to make an appearance. Either by allying with somebody who actually fields a Khorne-heavy force, or by getting at least a small Khornate section of your own.

But in the end it is up to the player, and his/her companions. If you are fine with a lone LoB joining the fight, all the power to you.

i agree darnok. if it was generic i would have considered spending close to $200 for my noise marine army, however, it being so painfully khorne i'm going to pass.

Brother Loki
30-06-2013, 01:40
For a suitably Slaaneshi big centerpiece model your best bet is probably the Exalted Keeper of Secrets from Forgeworld:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/Warhammer_Monsters/KEEPER-OF-SECRETS-GREATER-DAEMON-OF-SLAANESH.html

Alternatively, you could probably use the Eldar Wraithknight kit as the basis for a conversion of one of the old Epic Slaaneshi knights pictured earlier in the thread.

Cheexsta
30-06-2013, 05:02
Shave off Khorne symbols and replace the head. That would make it pretty Undivided in appearance.

Darnok
30-06-2013, 07:56
I think the Throne of Everblight (PP, Hordes) is an excellent start for a Slaanesh superheavy, either for CSM or Daemons. Add guns and/or "controllers", or leave it as it is:

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Shave off Khorne symbols and replace the head. That would make it pretty Undivided in appearance.

That'd be an aweful lot of work, and you would still have the skull fetish on the model. Plus: for that price people expect to get what they are looking for, not invest another few hours of work to even get the basic shape they want to start with...

Cap'n Facebeard
30-06-2013, 08:13
Funny I was just thinking about how GW's new big kits seem to coincide with Privateer Press' new Gargantuans and Colossals. The pity is that PP's stuff seems to be looking better, whilst GWs are looking more and more hamfisted. The new Khorne thing looks like a demented Tonka toy.

Wishing
30-06-2013, 08:45
I think the new guy looks cool, very in style with the old epic daemon engines. I've always been a huge fan of the lord of battles so I might get this one.

I think that the focus on Khorne is just one of those GW things where they have a favourite and are unashamed about it. If you play 40k, you understand very quickly that Space Marines get preferential treatment compared to the other factions in the game. If you play Chaos, you also learn quite quickly that Khorne occupies the same position within Chaos that Marines do in 40k overall. That factions and sub-factions are not all equal is nothing new.

Darnok
30-06-2013, 08:56
If you play 40k, you understand very quickly that Space Marines get preferential treatment compared to the other factions in the game. If you play Chaos, you also learn quite quickly that Khorne occupies the same position within Chaos that Marines do in 40k overall.

This impression is not backed up by facts. The khornate elements in the CSM range are: a plastic box for Khorne Berserkers (14 years old), Kharne (even older), and more recently a General and two champions. If anything, GW has done a lot to make CSM more "generic" - with all the newest releases being not specific to one of the Great Four at all.

While the LoB is a nice model in my opinion, it still leaves a big section of possible themed builds in the cold.

KhornateLord
30-06-2013, 09:40
I don't understand why they'd release a khorne only apocalypse option for chaos.
Especially as khorne mono-god blows in 40k. Bezerkers are over-priced crap.

Cheexsta
30-06-2013, 12:31
I don't understand why they'd release a khorne only apocalypse option for chaos.
Especially as khorne mono-god blows in 40k. Bezerkers are over-priced crap.
Maybe that's exactly why; because GW doesn't expect that everyone is playing a mono-god list, so this kit would be accessible by most Chaos players. It's only the mono-god players who lose out, and even then there's an example in WD of a Nurgle player who takes advantage of the flexibility of the Apocalypse rules to add a Khorne detachment to his army.

Baragash
30-06-2013, 12:45
TBH I don't know why they didn't go down the "Tower of...." (Chaos/Skulls/Plague/Sorcery/Lust........?) route and make a rolling tower kit which contained 5 sets of bits* (undivided, 4 gods) and then players could just assemble whichever tower they wanted.

*eg main front tower panel with appropriate symbol and maybe different barrels for the weapons.

Ivanzypher
30-06-2013, 13:10
Yeah an undivided kit would have made more sense. But going Khorne lets them put more skulls on, and when have GW ever done things because they make sense? To be honest I think the whole model is a bit......jazzy. It's just too much Chaos for me. It's like...evil overload. I mean it looks like it even runs on blood. A nice undivided model might have even got me back into playing my old Chaos army, but oh well. I hate the whole mixing gods thing too. I swear it's like GW don't want me to play chaos anymore. I'm still hoping the next super heavy is a giant Orky flyer or something though.

Denny
30-06-2013, 13:18
I don't understand why they'd release a khorne only apocalypse option for chaos.

What are the alternatives?

1) Generic Daemon Engine. OK, this might work for some people, but since you can just use a converted bane blade etc if you want something generic it's not really needed. Additionally the aesthetic for undivided daemon engines hasn't been that popular thus far (cue cries of I hate dinobots) and doesn't mesh well with any of the four gods (except ironically Khorne). You'd end up with a bland engine of boredom. :(

2) 1 Daemon engine for all four gods. Never going to work. You cannot make a kit that can be both Nurgle and Slaanesh unless it is horribly generic and just has icons stuck on it to denote each god . . . in which case you might as well just make the generic daemon engine listed above. :angel:

3) Make a Damon engine for Slaanesh/Nurgle/Tzeenetch instead. Whilsts I prefer these three gods of Khorne this would just alienate different chaos players. ;)

4) Make engines for all four gods! Yeah . . . I'm a Dark Eldar player. I got nothing in this release (not that I mind, everyone should get fun toys and its not my turn yet). Imagine if, instead of the current releases, Dark Eldar got four new units (one coven, one cult, one Kabal, and one for the mandrakes). How (rightfully) annoyed would everyone else be? At least chaos got something . . . :eyebrows:

5) Not release anything for chaos at all. :shifty:

malisteen
30-06-2013, 15:58
it is obviously Khorne, and Khorne alone.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z142/Malisteen/TGSCafe_zps686c4e06.png

I like the LoS myself. Yeah, it's goofy, but I like some of the old epic goofiness. I don't mind a little silly fun in my pew pew space guy toy soldiers game, and the ironic silliness of the over the top 'grr arg super macho dark dark grim grimmy dark dark dark' only goes so far. I'd pick it up for my mixed alignment black legion, but I can't afford one right now, maybe next year.

As for the 'any army can use it', that's always been an apocalypse thing, and I like it that way. Apocalypse isn't for pick up games or tournament games, it's for fun uber battle big games, and it doesn't try so hard to define what 'fun' is supposed to mean for you in that context. Does fun mean everybody piles on all they've got? Does fun mean strict thematic set ups recreating some battle from the fluff? Whatever. It means whatever, you and your friends decide, and work out what you think is or is not appropriate amongst yourselves before you even meet up to shove two tables together for your crazy seven hour megabattle.


As for the gods not getting along, well sure. But I've always preferred to see them like the greek pantheon. Sure, most of them don't like each other, but they're still part of the same pantheon and they're still worshiped together by most of their followers. Yeah, the chaos gods spend eternity warring with each other in the warp, but the Emperor is a threat to all of them and they certainly hate him more than they hate each other. For Chaos marines this is especially true, and for Daemons - once they breach into realspace there is literally no point fighting each other, it's not like they can actually kill each other after all, and instead it's a mad scramble to harvest as many mortal lives/souls as possible before the rift closes and their physical bodies dissipate. They can go back to fighting each other once they're stuck back in the warp with nothing actually productive to do.

nedius
30-06-2013, 16:15
Khorne has always been the god biggest on Daemon Engines.

That said, eventually more god specific ones could come along- Slaanesh had the Subjugator scout titan and the Hellknight/Questor/Hellstrider (sounds like a good opportunity for a $115 dual kit the size of the Wraithknight). Tzeentch had the Silver Tower, and a couple of fliers. Nurgle has the Plague Tower and Contagion Engine.



The LoS model is a cross between the old Lord of Battle and the Deathdealer from Epic.

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And these are some of the many reasons I loved Epic and wish it would replace the LotR and Hobbit range as the 3rd core system...

Anyway, I'd forgotten about the Death Dealer. It's far to small to be a Lord of Battle (I think, anyway), and does look a lot like a Death Dealer. Perhaps we can think of the 'Lord of Skulls' as a named Death Dealer. And I think it could look better with a bit of inventive kitbashing with a Baneblade. Expensive kit-bash, however.

As to why the Khorne specific model... as has been said, Khorne is the big deamon engine faction. Players will just have to think of it as an ally. Shame, I know, but there you go.

malisteen
30-06-2013, 16:19
While I don't mind the Lord of Skulls as khorne only, I do wish we had gotten some new giant Dark Mechanicus abomination that would have been more alignment neutral. Yes, khorne was the big daemon engine subgroup of the chaos marines, but post the most recent codex I was hoping to see the Dark Mechanicus, independent of specific deities, take on that mantle.

Son of Morkai
30-06-2013, 17:47
Yep that line made me laugh, because I am really going add a lord of skulls to my sister of battle army

Not that big of a stretch, really. The Lord of Skulls is covered in skulls. As far as the Sisters can tell, it is just another Imperial tank. The only thing off about it is the suspiciously low number of rivets.

Theocracity
30-06-2013, 18:02
What are the alternatives?

1) Generic Daemon Engine. OK, this might work for some people, but since you can just use a converted bane blade etc if you want something generic it's not really needed. Additionally the aesthetic for undivided daemon engines hasn't been that popular thus far (cue cries of I hate dinobots) and doesn't mesh well with any of the four gods (except ironically Khorne). You'd end up with a bland engine of boredom. :(

2) 1 Daemon engine for all four gods. Never going to work. You cannot make a kit that can be both Nurgle and Slaanesh unless it is horribly generic and just has icons stuck on it to denote each god . . . in which case you might as well just make the generic daemon engine listed above. :angel:

3) Make a Damon engine for Slaanesh/Nurgle/Tzeenetch instead. Whilsts I prefer these three gods of Khorne this would just alienate different chaos players. ;)

4) Make engines for all four gods! Yeah . . . I'm a Dark Eldar player. I got nothing in this release (not that I mind, everyone should get fun toys and its not my turn yet). Imagine if, instead of the current releases, Dark Eldar got four new units (one coven, one cult, one Kabal, and one for the mandrakes). How (rightfully) annoyed would everyone else be? At least chaos got something . . . :eyebrows:

5) Not release anything for chaos at all. :shifty:



As for the 'any army can use it', that's always been an apocalypse thing, and I like it that way.


These posts summarize my thoughts pretty well. The phrase "any army can use it" is the how Apocalypse has always been - it's just the phrasing got run through the Marketing wringer. And while I'm not taken by the LoS personally, I can totally see the old-school appeal of it and am not surprised that it's Khorne only based on logistics.

Wishing
30-06-2013, 22:29
This impression is not backed up by facts. The khornate elements in the CSM range are: a plastic box for Khorne Berserkers (14 years old), Kharne (even older), and more recently a General and two champions. If anything, GW has done a lot to make CSM more "generic" - with all the newest releases being not specific to one of the Great Four at all.

You make good points. Even so, my impression of Chaos in GW world has always been that Khorne stuff is released first as the spearhead, always, and the other gods are added on later for variety. The epic daemon engines, the ancestors of the LoS, are a prominent example of this - Khorne daemon engines were the only ones that existed for ages, with engines of other gods only coming much later. In 40k, Khorne had the Blood Slaughterer robot, and the other gods had nothing equivalent. Even though nowadays, Khorne may not have more specific kits than the other gods (until now :)), I still see Khorne as being first in line for attention for any kind of Chaos release.

Shibboleth
03-07-2013, 08:14
A Lord of Battles unique design is probly the hardest to convert of the Daemon Engines so most obvious choice for needing a kit (not that I wasn't already thinking of trying thanks to Dreamforge), but for Slaaneshi Subjugator/Questor, etc, you can now use Wraithknight parts (seriously thinking of this, maybe using Maulerfiend bits), for Nurgle you can use WFB Siege Tower with wheels and cannons, and for Tzeentch you already have several other towers available that can be made to hover.
The Lord of Skulls also gives us a good treadbase to build all those other Khornate Daemon Engines, Cauldron of Bood, Cannon of Khorne, etc.
As a Khorne fanatic myself I'm feeling lucky, but also daunted by the possibilities now available...

but yeah a Dark Mechanicus monstrosity would have been cool, as long as it had treads as mad as the LoS ones.

Shibboleth
03-07-2013, 08:15
Dang Diddely Double D'oh!

budman
03-07-2013, 09:34
Khorne has always been the god biggest on Daemon Engines.

That said, eventually more god specific ones could come along- Slaanesh had the Subjugator scout titan and the Hellknight/Questor/Hellstrider (sounds like a good opportunity for a $115 dual kit the size of the Wraithknight). Tzeentch had the Silver Tower, and a couple of fliers. Nurgle has the Plague Tower and Contagion Engine.



The LoS model is a cross between the old Lord of Battle and the Deathdealer from Epic.

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Thanks man I forgot how awesome they were back in the day

Darnok
03-07-2013, 10:28
Those Epic models are much more "toylike" than anything in the current GW range. I really don't get how people can moan about the new LoB, but praise the even more ridiculous Epic stuff.

Scythe
03-07-2013, 11:27
So The Lord of skulls, all fine and dandy but what if you have a slaanesh force ? Or a thousand sons warband ? What fluffy way could you add a LoS ?
Would have been better if the LoS had been a generic chaos thing not being exclusive to one god .. Khorne always seems to get preferential treatment ...

Praise the (chaos) gods you play Slaanesh and won't have to use the ugly thing. Get a Baneblade instead (to be used as a Chaos Baneblade), or go forgeworld and grab yourself an Exalted Keeper of Secrets or Chaos Titan. All great models, unlike the LoS.

Azazyll
04-07-2013, 11:14
It's a war game, lead with the war god ;)

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
04-07-2013, 12:54
I think that the focus on Khorne is just one of those GW things where they have a favourite and are unashamed about it. If you play 40k, you understand very quickly that Space Marines get preferential treatment compared to the other factions in the game. If you play Chaos, you also learn quite quickly that Khorne occupies the same position within Chaos that Marines do in 40k overall. That factions and sub-factions are not all equal is nothing new.
It seems extremely obvious for the marines, with about half of the codex being for marines, but it never struck me that much for Khorne. Do you have any example to illustrate ?

4) Make engines for all four gods! Yeah . . . I'm a Dark Eldar player. I got nothing in this release (not that I mind, everyone should get fun toys and its not my turn yet). Imagine if, instead of the current releases, Dark Eldar got four new units (one coven, one cult, one Kabal, and one for the mandrakes). How (rightfully) annoyed would everyone else be?
Marines got 4 new release :p. Though way smaller than the Lord of Battle.
I wouldn't be annoyed so much if Dark Eldar got four new release : it's really not like they have monopolized new releases in the past. Would be fair if they got some now.

CrownAxe
04-07-2013, 12:59
It seems extremely obvious for the marines, with about half of the codex being for marines, but it never struck me that much for Khorne. Do you have any example to illustrate ?.

Khorne is on the cover of both chaos codecies

Khorne is the only one to get a dedicated daemon weapon

Darnok
04-07-2013, 13:37
Khorne is on the cover of both chaos codecies

For the Codex: CSM it is unclear at best. While the armour of that CSM is red/bronze, that is not unique to Khorne. The only clearly visible icon on the armour is an eightpointed star on the chest - which stands for Chaos Undivided.

Concernng the Codex: DoC... what does that have to do with the CSM book? Yes, they both represent a Chaos faction, but you wouldn't argue the cover of Codex: IG having any impact whatsoever on Codex: SM.


Khorne is the only one to get a dedicated daemon weapon

Which one exactly? There is an Artifact of CHaos for models with MoK only - but there is another one for ones with MoT only. I might miss something here, and I'm working with the German translation only.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
04-07-2013, 13:38
Khorne is on the cover of both chaos codecies
Well, I looked for the history of Chaos codices, and I found no obvious predominance of Khorne. There was a berserker on Chaos Marines 2nd ed, and Chaos Daemon 4th ed was a little Khorne and a lot Nurgle. I'm not really convinced here. They may have a little favoritism, that's true, but marines don't get just a little, so it's not really comparable imho.

Wishing
05-07-2013, 00:02
It seems extremely obvious for the marines, with about half of the codex being for marines, but it never struck me that much for Khorne. Do you have any example to illustrate ?

Mainly just what I wrote earlier: "The epic daemon engines, the ancestors of the LoS, are a prominent example of this - Khorne daemon engines were the only ones that existed for ages, with engines of other gods only coming much later. In 40k, Khorne had the Blood Slaughterer robot, and the other gods had nothing equivalent."

Other stuff off the top of my head - the first cult marines released in plastic were berserkers (as I recall), the first plastic daemon unit was bloodletters (as I recall), and as pointed out above, there are khorne daemons on the cover of the daemon codexes for both 40k and WHFB. Seems like a Khorne preference to me. You're right that you can't compare it directly to the dominance of marines overall though, and I was wrong to do so.


Concernng the Codex: DoC... what does that have to do with the CSM book? Yes, they both represent a Chaos faction, but you wouldn't argue the cover of Codex: IG having any impact whatsoever on Codex: SM.

The discussion is about Khorne, not CSM. Khorne as an entity exists in both the CSM and daemon factions. For the comparison with SM and IG to make sense, there would have to be both Ultramarine SM and Ultramarine IG in these codexes. Khorne is a concept that spans multiple factions, he's not just a CSM thing.

Hellebore
05-07-2013, 00:19
It's harder to see now, but Khorne was always first in line to get a new unit or updated unit. Berserkers back in the day (still the only plastic cult unit), virtually all the daemon models had Khorne released first or in the first wave - bloodcrushers etc.

Now that the lines are more complete it's harder to see to bias that was present at the time. Plastic Bloodcrushers existed before nurgle and tzeentch even got core plastic daemons iirc.

These days with virtually all units receiving miniatures, the chaos gods are on more of a parity. The favouritism was just in the order of those releases and length of time Khorne possessed miniatures when the other gods didn't.

Back in 3.5 Khorne and Nurgle seemed to be getting the most attention in terms of miniature releases.

Hellebore

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
05-07-2013, 01:15
Ok, thanks for the info.

KhornateLord
05-07-2013, 02:33
It's harder to see now, but Khorne was always first in line to get a new unit or updated unit. Berserkers back in the day (still the only plastic cult unit), virtually all the daemon models had Khorne released first or in the first wave - bloodcrushers etc.

Now that the lines are more complete it's harder to see to bias that was present at the time. Plastic Bloodcrushers existed before nurgle and tzeentch even got core plastic daemons iirc.

These days with virtually all units receiving miniatures, the chaos gods are on more of a parity. The favouritism was just in the order of those releases and length of time Khorne possessed miniatures when the other gods didn't.

Back in 3.5 Khorne and Nurgle seemed to be getting the most attention in terms of miniature releases.

Hellebore

Yep +1

I don't understand why they wouldn't build something "undivided". Build a knight-titan, or similar sized daemonic engine, and allow conversions/include some in the kit. Hell, release it "undivided" and have FW lead with legion/god options, from the get-go. Allow FW to sell the plastic kit + upgrade options in one bundle. Boom, cash for GW.

Whatever GW has planned for chaos, it's still true that most chaos armies are either original legions or relatively god-themed.
There's four god-themed lists that are going to have to work hard to justify such a large centrepeice.
There's also a good bunch of original legions that probably won't use this. Given how it looks, it can't easily be modified to be a reskinned version for another god or undivided using the same rules either.

It's pretty much a world eaters + black legion option, and both those lists are hardly running bezerkers in 6th ed, seeing as they are the least useful cult troop.

The Illuminated
05-07-2013, 05:53
For the Codex: CSM it is unclear at best. While the armour of that CSM is red/bronze, that is not unique to Khorne. The only clearly visible icon on the armour is an eightpointed star on the chest - which stands for Chaos Undivided.

He's a Blood Gorgon- they are indeed undivided.

In the novel, they're allied with an undivided greater daemon, who's some kind of trickster. They're very opposed to the idea of serving one of the big-four.

173730


Which one exactly? There is an Artifact of CHaos for models with MoK only - but there is another one for ones with MoT only. I might miss something here, and I'm working with the German translation only.

He's referring to the Axe of Blind Rage, which is the weapon of choice for most Chaos players. The Black Mace, while nice, is situational- and the scrolls you refer to, for Tzeentch, suck terribly. It's also - arguably - not really a 'weapon'.

Khorne and Nurgle tend to get the most love from both Games Workshop, and Forge World.

I blame the community though, honestly.

shabbadoo
05-07-2013, 10:49
Paint, and a bit of modification, will do everything.

173741

That is just changing the hue of the colors. Now, change the head a bit more (speaker, or whatever), swap out the dozer blade for a scratch-built one with a Slaanesh symbol on it, replace the juggernaut heads with beast of Slaanesh/seeker of Slaanesh heads, put a few cavorting daemonettes on it, swap the axe for a Wraithknight sword suitably modified, and there you have it. Similar can be done for Tzeentch and Nurgle versions, as I am sure we will see people do. Most god-specific bits can be cheaply scratch-built without using any parts from other kits (certain bits can simply be left off), but if somebody is spending $160 on this monstrosity then they are probably not a cheap bastard to begin with.