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AdmiralDick
29-06-2013, 19:59
i'm incredibly impatient and don't want to wait a week, but we do have now got an issue of WD with a battle report (and other much less helpful articles). they've obviously been extended significantly hence the increase in size of the new book; but can we summarize what we glean from WD's pages about the new rules set?

Odin
29-06-2013, 20:37
Is the book actually bigger? Or is it just that it is in the more usual A4 (ish) size now?

Hendarion
29-06-2013, 22:11
142 Eldar Cobra?
146 Eldar Phoenix Bomber?
147 Eldar Phantom Titan?
148 Eldar Revenant Titan?
149 Eldar Scorpion?
The Phoenix ain't apocalyptic. The Lynx and Vampires are.
How exactly did you come up with the list actually? Crunch Cobra and Scorpion into one entry and it forms up even better - Vampires and Cobra/Scorpion should be in two total entries imo, not in 4.

Bonzai
30-06-2013, 19:27
One possible Apoc unit is the Necron Transcendant C'tan.

Xerkics
01-07-2013, 02:29
JErvis johnson kinda hits that the book has rules how to play multiplayer games, im just wondering if this might be usable outside of apocalypse as atm there arent any.

MajorWesJanson
01-07-2013, 03:03
The Phoenix ain't apocalyptic. The Lynx and Vampires are.
How exactly did you come up with the list actually? Crunch Cobra and Scorpion into one entry and it forms up even better - Vampires and Cobra/Scorpion should be in two total entries imo, not in 4.

Vampire, maybe. Scorpion/Cobra probably aren't getting combined if all 8 Baneblade hull variants get their own sheets. Commisar put a more full list together in the bigger Apoc rumor thread.

Azazel
01-07-2013, 11:32
"There are seven vortex missiles housed in the center of the Aquila Strongpoint, that's enough to fire one per turn in a game of Apocalypse." GW Website.

Ozendorph
01-07-2013, 16:52
"There are seven vortex missiles housed in the center of the Aquila Strongpoint, that's enough to fire one per turn in a game of Apocalypse." GW Website.

Wow. Target acquired.

theDarkGeneral
01-07-2013, 18:28
Another rule change is the way Super Heavy Vehicles/Walkers interact with other models. Stomp has changed from every model in base to base, to d3 hits. Then you roll on the Stomp Chart...1 they move, 2-5 are hits, 6 the model/unit is removed! Also new type of tank shock from them!

Gargantuan Creatures loose power in the game with anything that casues Instant Death causing D3 wounds upon them. (previously it was a single wound).

theDarkGeneral
01-07-2013, 18:37
Gargantuan Creatures also come with Feel No Pain!

Ozendorph
01-07-2013, 18:55
We'd talked about using the d3 Wounds rule for gargantuans in the last edition, but the Nid players weren't keen on it (understandably). With the addition of FNP the change won't nerf the bugs too hard, and I'll still feel like I'm doing it right when I blast a Hierodule in the face with a volcano cannon.

warlordbob
01-07-2013, 19:08
From todays White Dwarf article, we know about Exemplar traits for the Warlord granting his Finest Hour, and the Devine Intervention rule bringing the various gods to the table. So seems to me they're really gone for the cinematic feel this time round, which seems really appropriate.

theDarkGeneral
01-07-2013, 19:52
Unfortunately Ozendorph they Tyranids Gargantuans (and Chaos Daemon Lords) won't get Feel No Pain against "D" weapons and the such, because anything that causes Instant Death also denies Feel No Pain.

MajorWesJanson
01-07-2013, 20:48
Gargantuan Creatures loose power in the game with anything that casues Instant Death causing D3 wounds upon them. (previously it was a single wound).

It was mixed before. They were immune to instant death, but anything that would kill them automatically, like a forceweapon or failed characteristic test would do d3 wounds.


Unfortunately Ozendorph they Tyranids Gargantuans (and Chaos Daemon Lords) won't get Feel No Pain against "D" weapons and the such, because anything that causes Instant Death also denies Feel No Pain.

Of course not. They should not be getting Feel no Pain against weapons designed to kill superheavy tanks, gargantuan creatures, and titans.

I still hope D weapons are at least toned down some. Or that things like titans are point costed appropriately. The Baneblade jumped up in points, so there is hope.

theDarkGeneral
01-07-2013, 21:53
MajorWesJanson: True enough, but I do hope the bugz get a boost stat/rules wise. Also with one of the upcoming Imperial Armours focusing greatly on the Tyranids and a few new MASSIVE bugs (along with "older" style list) the Hive Fleets will be able to be more of a serious threat.

On a side note I do worry about some of the Formation changes...I do hope they don't make the Lords of the Black Crusade mandatory useage of Kharn, Ahriman, Lucius and Typhus...that'd be quite terrible! Abaddon I get...but forcing themed Legions to use non-alligned models would be unwise.

I do however love the changes in the Cult of Destruction, Living Fortress & Subterranean Swarm!

Ozendorph
01-07-2013, 22:26
Yeah, I don't mean that they'd get FNP against the ID weapons, but rather that they'd take fewer wounds from everything else. Balances it out somewhat. It was disappointing in the last edition when a single pen against a super heavy could chain react and have serious consequences, but against a gargantuan Nid even a S: D hit would only result in the loss of a single wound (only six more to go!). Sounds like they found a good balance...we'll see if it holds up on the table.

Ozendorph
01-07-2013, 22:48
FYI a bunch of the Strategic Assets can be viewed in the White Dwarf Daily today. I'm going blind trying to read them, but I did see that Flank March now affects a single Apocalypse Formation (they still come on from any table edge)

edit: Interesting bit in the Stormsword data sheet. The Command Tank upgrade makes the Stormsword a "High Command Formation" as well as a Super Heavy, and it counts as an HQ.

MajorWesJanson
01-07-2013, 23:40
Updated my summary.

Between myself, the eagle eye and work of Commisar, and some helpful people adding comments and corrections, here is what we know about Apoc so far:

Contents (guesses are in bold, some pages are confirmed to exist but not a definite page number, those are listed with either best guess page number with a ? or just as page ??):

FIGHTING AN APOCALYPSE BATTLE

5 What is Apocalypse

23 Strategic Resources
Inside 23-24? Eldar vs Chaos double gatefold
30 Strategic Assets
31 Asset Cards
32 Asset Cards
33 Asset Cards
34 Asset Cards
35 Asset Cards
36 Asset Cards
37-69 New Rules and Weapon Types
51-55 Organizing the Apocalypse

APOCALYPSE FORMATIONS (112 total)
79? Baneblade
80 Banesword?
81? Banehammer
82 Catachan Ambush Patrol
83 Doomhammer?
84 Emperor's Fist Tank Company
85 Emperor's Talons Recon Company
86 Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company
87 Hellhammer?
88 Imperial Shield Infantry Company
89 Imperial Sword Heavy Weapon Company
90 Lord Castellan's Supreme Command
91 Sanctioned Psyker Battle Elite
92 Shadowsword?
93 Steel Fury Baneblade Company
94 Stormlord
95 Stormsword
96 Battle Company
97 Fellblade?
98 First Company Veterans
99 Librarius
100 Masters of the Chapter
101 Prediator Assassin Squadron
102 Scout Company
103 Titanhammer Squad
104 Thunderhawk?
105 The Black Rage
106 Lucifer Armoured Task Force
107 Wings of Sanguinius
108 Space Wolf Great Company
109 Space Wolf Librarius
110 Brethren of the Great Wolf
111 Wolfpack Flanking Force
112 Deathwing Redemption Force
113 Ravenwing Huntmasters
114 Brothers of the Flame
115 Dreadknight Brethren
116 Extermination Force
117 Reaver Titan? Marauder Bomber?
118? Warhound Titan
119 Cult of Destruction
120 Heldrake Fear Squadron
121 Lord of Skulls
122 Legionaire Warband
123 Lords of the Black Crusade
124 The Lost and Dammed
125 Thousand Sons War Coven
126 Tide of Spawn
127 Cohort of Blood
128 The Flaming Host of Tzeentch
129 The Great Promenade of Exquisite Excess
130 The Tallymen of Nurgle
131 Tetragon of Darkness
132?
133 Battlewagon Steamrolla Squad
134 Burna-Bommer Skwadron
135 Da Bully Boyz
136 Dread Mob
137 Big Mek Stompa?
138 Stompa
139 Gargantuan Squiggoth?
140 Green Tide
141 Battlefortress?
142 Cobra?
143 Cloudstrike Squadron
144 Farseer Council
146 Phantom Titan
147? Revenant Titan
148 Scorpion
149 Vampire?
150 Sunstorm Squadron
151 Wraithknight Dreamwalker Squad
152 Windrider Host
153 Carnival of Pain
154 Dark Olympiad
155 Kabalite Web Strike
156 Ravager Titan Hunters
157 Sickle Squadron
158 Void Dragon Phoenix? FW website blub says they frequently work with dark eldar.
159 Barbed Heirodule?
160 Carnifex Crusher Brood
161 Endless Swarm
162 Harridan?
163 Heirophant Bio Titan?
164 Living Fortress
165 Subterranean Swarm
166 Vanguard Infestation
167 Scythed Heirodule?
168 Spore Chimney?
169 Acquisition Phalanx
170 Baleful Necropolis
171 Infinite Phalanx
172 Obelisk?
173 Pylon?
174 Tesseract Vault?
175 The War Council of Mandragora
176? Trancendent C'tan
177 Air Superiority Wing
178 Counterstrike Cadre
179 Kroot Hunting Pack
180 Optimised Stealth Group
181 Rapid Insertion Force
182 Riptide Wing
183 Skysweep Missile Defence
184 Tigershark?
185 Tigershark AX-1-0 Mentioned in the Air Superiority Wing
186? Aquilla Strongpoint? (Apoc version)
187? Firestorm Redoubt? (Apoc Version)
188? Vengeance Weapons Battery? (Apoc Version)
189? Imperial Bunkers? (Replaces Bunker strategem from Apoc 1)
190? Imperial Defense Lines/Emplacements? (Replaces IG Defense Line Strategem from Reloaded)
191? Fortress of Redemption? (Apoc Version with Vortex missile battery)
?? Marauder Bomber (Pages 117 and 118 are tricky, as the Warhound is confirmed, the Reaver has a 2 page spread of the model, and Marauder was in the first Apoc book, but there are only 2 pages of space.)

MINIATURES SHOWCASE
196 Lords of the Black Crusade showcase
197 Masters of the Chapter showcase
?? Obelisk showcase
?? Necron army spread
?? Reaver Titan spread
?? Sacred Blade cutaway (spread?)

WAR ZONE: ARMAGEDDON
230 Ghazkulls First Invasion
231 Maps

[Armageddon Showcase]
[Armageddon Formations]
262 Heroes of Armageddon
263 Armageddon Stompa Hunters
264 Fortress of Arrogance
265 Imperial Vengeance Mechanized Company
266 Crusader Hailstorm Squadron
267 Sons of Grimaldus
268 The Legion Ascendant
269 Firestorm Nexus
270 Imperial Stronghold
271 Bikeboyz Kult of Speed
272 ?
273 ?
274 Karnage Skwadron
275 Ork Storma Elite
276 Overlord Von Strab
277 Red Skull Kommandoes
278 Stompa Mob

?? Reference pages
-------------------------------------

FORMATIONS

"With 11 distinct classes of formation, you can take your choice from the C'tan-powered Tesseract Vault to an entire Battle Company of Space Marines!"



I would guess two of the missing three are Super-heavy Fliers and Gargantuan Creatures. Not sure what the 11th could be.

There are distinct icons for various formations:
Skull inside a Cog- Superheavy Vehicle
Three Skulls over 3 Arrows- Battle Formation
Xenos Skull with Mandibles- Gargantuan Creature?


Force Organization DOES seem to exist in Apoc in some form, as the Command Tank upgrade for Baneblade and Stormsword specifies that they both become a high command formation (bonus Strategic asset?) and a HQ choice.

---------------------------------------------------------------

STRATEGIC ASSETS

Each side gets a number of Strategic Assets equal to the total number of players on the largest side. Each player then chooses one, and if one side is smaller than the other, that sides "Warmaster" gets to choose the leftover objectives. Additionally, some High Command Formations and rules give a player (not side) bonus assets (which would explain why the command tank upgrade on the Baneblade is so expensive) Assets may not be duplicated on a side.

Asset Listing. Guesses/partials in bold. (63 total) Additionally, Battlezone Armageddon includes some additional assets.

ANY ARMY
Blind Barrage
Camouflage
Flank March
Minefields
Orbital Bombardment
Precise Coordinates
Rearm
Replacements
Shield Generator
Supreme Headquarters

IMPERIAL GUARD
Bombardment
On My Coordinates

SPACE MARINES
Crusade Banner
Fury of the Just

CHAOS SPACE MARINES
Corrupt and Despoil
?? Altar

CHAOS DAEMONS
Blood Thirst
Grand Pavane
?? Plague

ORKS
Rok 'em Boyz
Stand To, Ladz!

TAU
Darkstar Warhead
Icefire Warhead

ELDAR
Waygate

DARK Eldar
Murderous Pain
Combat Stimms

TYRANIDS

NECRONS

UNKNOWN
?? Horror

Didn't include these in the summary so if this part gets nuked for rules, the whole thing doesn't go away.

I think you're right. You have 5" Large Blast, 7" Massive Blast, 10" Apocalyptic Blast, and 15" Apocalyptic Mega-blast.
Assets we can read:
Blind Barrage- same as the old one. Pick points, scatter, draw a line between the two, no line of sight across that line for a turn
Camouflage- units within 24" of a selected HQ gain shrouded for the first game turn
Flank March is limited to a single Formation, not your entire reserves. Strong, but not broken like the old one.
Minefield- Area becomes dangerous terrain.
Orbital Strike- 15" blast that Gropius points out has a varying strength based on how close to the center you are.
Precise Coordinates- no scatter deepstrike for a turn. Nasty.
Re-arm- Friendly units get back any used up One-shot weapons
Replacements- Like the old one, but max of 15 hull points total for vehicles/squadrons. I'd bet that Warhounds/Stompas are at or around the 15 hull point mark.
Shield Generator prevents units within 6 (or 12") of a point you designate from being targeted by shooting for a turn.

Hendarion
02-07-2013, 07:25
Damn, I wanna know about the damage chart for Super Heavies already. They got no longer Structure Points, but 3x the Hullpoints, that's obvious so far. But what if you roll a 6 on the damage-chart? Is it destroyed like a normal vehicle or just some damage + roll again? The first would be super stupid. The second would make them far more survivable than before. Maybe lose 3 structure points on a 6 + roll again? That would reflect the old rules pretty well.

Fable
02-07-2013, 15:35
158 Void Dragon Phoenix? FW website blub says they frequently work with dark eldar.

Wouldn't the Tantalus be more likely?

Sgt John Keel
02-07-2013, 16:05
I'm assuming the Vortex Grenade should go under strategic assets too as per the description of the template: "a vortex grenade is a standard strategic asset as detailed in the Apocalypse rulebook, which means anyone can take one".

Konovalev
02-07-2013, 16:38
summary.

What no Manta? Surely GW has a plastic kit in the works for it. :D

warlordbob
03-07-2013, 11:05
I'm assuming the Vortex Grenade should go under strategic assets too as per the description of the template: "a vortex grenade is a standard strategic asset as detailed in the Apocalypse rulebook, which means anyone can take one".

Actually, from the image of the Vortex Grenade asset card in WD, it seems its limited to Space Marines only now, which iirc was how it was back in 2nd ed.