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Aspect78
01-07-2013, 06:48
Hi all,

Posted this on Bols and Loken's horus heresy forum just a bit ago, thought I would get as much feedback as possible.

The dilemma of which legion to pick is gnawing at me for a couple of reasons. First, forgeworld costs a TON which is why i'd like to pick the right legion the first time around. Secondly, I would like to start a force soon but don't want to regret my decision when one of the later heresy books comes out. Of course further down the road I could probably afford to do a second legion force anyways so its not the biggest deal.

I believe that the legion I want to do will be either in betrayal or one of the two upcoming massacre books which is nice. I've begun planning to collect some of the more generic sets such as tacticals and the legion praetors to begin my force.

I really enjoy the aesthetics of 30k, so that matters somewhat in the decision. (i.e. legion colors, predominant armor marks, legion badge designs).

The legions that interest me the most as well as reasons why in no particular order
-death guard: mortarion is awesome, they have core beliefs which I like (humanity's freedom from tyrants), and have a gritty style of battle
-word bearers: really love their heresy colors, their fluff, and those circle of ashes marine pictures floating around. plus a sweet legion badge
-night lords: sevatar is one of my favorite characters, and they have cool almost batman-esque fluff. the one drawback here is that I almost do not want to accept that they killed for the sake of killing in many cases if I were to play them. it doesn't appeal to me as much. a plus is a great color scheme.
-salamanders: great legion beliefs (protect humanity/ humane treatment). Their new units sounds amazing. I'm not too hot about their color scheme, but a darker green would suit me just fine.
-alpha legion: this is by far my favorite legion color scheme/ legion badge the way that forgeworld has done it. I think they have amazing fluff/ combat tactics.they also have fluff that allows me to play them in a mysterious fashion that makes them out to be simply more than greedy traitors. Check out the photos on Loken's blog, apocalypse 40k, is you haven't seen them. I think this one is a top three. only drawbacks are that I'd have to wait until at least december to see any legion specific stuff, and they also have two of the lamer primarchs in terms of actual combat ability from what i've read. won't be taking the primarchs in every game though so it wouldn't be the biggest deal plus they will probably have awesome rules.
-thousand suns: cool colors, fluff, and badge. not purely evil.
-iron hands: ferrus is awesome, but their scheme is meh. I like the way that fw has portrayed it slightly better though.
-blood angels: I LOVE sanguinius. I don't have too much interest however, due to them being a 40k army.
-world eaters: awesome badge/ color scheme, but not to big on their nature.

Open to playing any legion really, but these are my main interests. all suggestions are welcome.

30k is fascinating to me and I think one of the reasons is the ability to play as the badass characters that we read about in the horus heresy novels as well as the ability to play the fluff that many of us have found so interesting for so long. What i'm saying is that the actual character of the legion matters. I don't enjoy the purely evil nature of some of the legions or the vain nature of some (looking at you fulgrim). Included in that is having numerous strong characters that embody the nature of that legion.

Having said that, I haven't read nearly as much as I should have/ am not knowledgeable enough about the HH novels to make some of those judgements myself. Any suggestions on novels to pick up/or even laying out some of the characters that make these legions so great would be appreciated.

I think due to my interest in many legions I am open to having a couple of smaller allied forces so that I can game with some of their legion specific goodies as well. Would like to come to a firm decision on a main legion however.

As far as loyalists go their loyalty is an extremely appealing factor (what can I say i'm an emperor's man), but I think that the traitors are the way to go in 30k because its an extremely unique opportunity to play them in such a different fashion than in 40k.

rough top 4

1). alpha legion
2). word bearers
3). night lords/ t sons
4). salamanders

Thanks in advance for reading this rant/ any help. All suggestions are welcome.

Baneboss
01-07-2013, 09:09
I think that the traitors are the way to go in 30k because its an extremely unique opportunity to play them in such a different fashion than in 40k.

Agreed. Remember that some part of the traitor legions had to be purged because they couldnt be swayed to the dark side. It happened not only to those on Istvaan 3 but it also says in First Heretic that some of the Word Beares also had to die though it dont go into specifics. I believe other traitor legions that took part in Istvaan 5 also had their ranks purged of loyalists but i havent read so far.
If you want to combine the two - very loyal legion that went traitor then you should either choose Alpha Legion or Thousand Sons. First one has to this day a battlecry "For the Emperor" and the second was very loyal but Magnus was perhaps too impatient. Thousand Sons have a very tragic history because they were plagued by a genetic malfunction and Magnus gave his one eye to save them.

nosebiter
01-07-2013, 10:10
I hear you in this one subject. I have been going in circles in this since Betrayal came out. My top 4 list looks like this.

1. Sons if Horus, loyalist faction. I like Loken alot, and an army led by him has alot if apeal.
2. Salamanders. I like the fact that they are the true champions of the ordinary citizens of the imperium. Also painting a darker salamander scheme would be loads of fun.
3. Emperors children. The purple/white scheme is very striking. Again the loyalist faction had the most apeal.
4. Blood Angels. Sanguinius. He will be an epic miniature. Nuff said.

Aspect78
01-07-2013, 20:56
Agreed. Remember that some part of the traitor legions had to be purged because they couldnt be swayed to the dark side. It happened not only to those on Istvaan 3 but it also says in First Heretic that some of the Word Beares also had to die though it dont go into specifics. I believe other traitor legions that took part in Istvaan 5 also had their ranks purged of loyalists but i havent read so far.
If you want to combine the two - very loyal legion that went traitor then you should either choose Alpha Legion or Thousand Sons. First one has to this day a battlecry "For the Emperor" and the second was very loyal but Magnus was perhaps too impatient. Thousand Sons have a very tragic history because they were plagued by a genetic malfunction and Magnus gave his one eye to save them.

Exactly. And you can play it as part of the great crusade.

Aspect78
01-07-2013, 20:58
The more I think/ hear about it alpha legion seems amazing.

Agreed on the paint scheme for EC.

I will certainly be purchasing a sanguinius come hell or high water. It will be too awesome not to have.

Baneboss
01-07-2013, 22:11
I will certainly be purchasing a sanguinius come hell or high water. It will be too awesome not to have.

As far as it goes he will either have a screaming or yawning expression on the face :)


The more I think/ hear about it alpha legion seems amazing.

Yeah, go Alpha Legion. Both Alpharius and Omegon were very loyal to the Emperor (or rather his ambition and his dream). I dont know how the Heresy will unfold their story but somehow i think their lies and secrets will be their undoing and why they went traitor in the first place will become something else in the end. We shall see.

Aspect78
02-07-2013, 00:58
As far as it goes he will either have a screaming or yawning expression on the face :)



Yeah, go Alpha Legion. Both Alpharius and Omegon were very loyal to the Emperor (or rather his ambition and his dream). I dont know how the Heresy will unfold their story but somehow i think their lies and secrets will be their undoing and why they went traitor in the first place will become something else in the end. We shall see.


Would really like some future HH novels to reveal more about this

nosebiter
02-07-2013, 02:23
Would really like some future HH novels to reveal more about this

That is one of the main reason why the alpha legion isnt on my list. I have no clue about their motivations and why they turned traitor.

But the challenge in getting a rather bland paint scheme to work would be an interesting one.

Inquisitor Engel
02-07-2013, 04:15
That is one of the main reason why the alpha legion isnt on my list. I have no clue about their motivations and why they turned traitor.

:eyebrows:

There's an entire novel about it. Read "Legion." It's pretty clear.

The Illuminated
02-07-2013, 06:30
:eyebrows:

There's an entire novel about it. Read "Legion." It's pretty clear.

I don't think anything regarding Legion, could be considered ''clear'', Engel. :D

aim
02-07-2013, 06:44
For me it would be;

Alpha Legion, 1K-Sons or World Eaters.

1K-Sons and Alphas potentially could have some very interesting play style, world eaters, I love the pre-heresy scheme, bloody handprint on face, battle damage opportunities etc.

serge
02-07-2013, 07:24
I disagree on traitors being more interesting than loyalists. This is the case in 40k with the chaos marine army. In 30k all are equal, i.e. up to legion specific units. They have the same structure, equipment, etc. To me it is down to fluff and with this in mind do whatever floats your boat.

I went for Ultramarine despite all the disparaging remarks like "missed opportunity to do a unique chapter" and "wtf ... any noob plays the smurfs", because I really like their paint scheme (see my avatar). Contrary to most I really like legion livery and iconography of the Ultramarines.

In my fluff my army from the Great Scouring is harrying the traitors to the Eye. A mixture of all types of armor, all stopgap measures. So I would mix torsos, legs and helmets of all later armor types, and make list that would be almost legal under the current space marine codex (Roboute is play testing Codex Astartes) but I use the legion book because no way I will pass on volkite weaponry and older type tanks and all the cool stuff.

Aspect78
02-07-2013, 09:58
I have to disagree slightly. While of course each legion has different unique units, in 40k the traitor factions are so far gone from their state at the start (or close to) the heresy that the experience/ character is entirely different. a

superdupermatt
02-07-2013, 10:59
If FW release how they painted those legion tartarous in the alpha legion scheme, I am gonna be doing alpha legion.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk HD

Baneboss
02-07-2013, 13:50
I disagree on traitors being more interesting than loyalists. This is the case in 40k with the chaos marine army. In 30k all are equal, i.e. up to legion specific units. They have the same structure, equipment, etc.

Not really. At least not yet. I believe when it finally comes to the Siege of Terra in future releases (someday it will come to this finally) we will see whole chaosified legions with all the goodies. So for example if you collect Death Guard you will be able to add Plague Marines, etc. Emperors Children are getting Kakaphoni in the next release already.

Piousservant
02-07-2013, 14:55
Not really. At least not yet. I believe when it finally comes to the Siege of Terra in future releases (someday it will come to this finally) we will see whole chaosified legions with all the goodies. So for example if you collect Death Guard you will be able to add Plague Marines, etc. Emperors Children are getting Kakaphoni in the next release already.

Ah, but see this is the reason I'm undecided - doing a Loyalist Legion and all the models will be fine for Pre-Heresy, all the way through to the Scouring. On the Traitor side having the current uncorrupted models next to later chaos-ified models might look a bit odd.

For the record I'm stuck between going for Iron Warriors or Iron Hands. Love the background of both Legions, especially the Iron Warriors (and never did them as a 40k army) so I'd lean that way if it weren't for I'm not sure I want to build a Loyalist-looking Traitor Legion. Maybe it's just me but that's what I'm undecided about...! :P

T10
02-07-2013, 15:19
I don't think anything regarding Legion, could be considered ''clear'', Engel. :D

In my opinion, that retcon in the Horus Heresy novels sucks donkey rooster.

I prefer the Alpha Legion as beign "In-it-for-Chaos!" due to their inferiority complex. Not this "One for the team, bro!" take on things.

-T10

Charistoph
02-07-2013, 16:56
In my opinion, that retcon in the Horus Heresy novels sucks donkey rooster.

I prefer the Alpha Legion as beign "In-it-for-Chaos!" due to their inferiority complex. Not this "One for the team, bro!" take on things.

-T10

I like the concept that they started it as "One for the team, bro!" and then:


.... their lies and secrets will be their undoing and why they went traitor in the first place will become something else in the end.

Their Legion is scattered and Tzeentch only knows (and maybe not even it) who is a disguised Loyalist in Chaos clothing, Chaos through and through, or Chaos in Loyalist clothing for them.

And there comes a point where a lie can become the truth if you practice it long enough, and they've been at it for a very long time.

Fallen11
02-07-2013, 17:43
btw. if you do 'chaos' pre heresy army,doesn't it in fact give you basically chaos and sm army? If you want to play it as sm,you simply play it as pre heresy army,and then again, if you want to play it as chaos,well,just add chaos stuff like drakes,obliterators etc. to it,since you already have it painted in legion specific color play it as 40k.

The Illuminated
02-07-2013, 17:47
Not really. At least not yet. I believe when it finally comes to the Siege of Terra in future releases (someday it will come to this finally) we will see whole chaosified legions with all the goodies. So for example if you collect Death Guard you will be able to add Plague Marines, etc. Emperors Children are getting Kakaphoni in the next release already.

People shouldn't be basing their Legion choice on the possible toys that they'll receive down the road; it should be the Legion itself you choose.

Go with the fluff you like, and you can't go wrong- in my opinion.

Marshal_Loss
02-07-2013, 17:53
Hi all,
-alpha legion: this is by far my favorite legion color scheme/ legion badge the way that forgeworld has done it. I think they have amazing fluff/ combat tactics.they also have fluff that allows me to play them in a mysterious fashion that makes them out to be simply more than greedy traitors. Check out the photos on Loken's blog, apocalypse 40k, is you haven't seen them. I think this one is a top three. only drawbacks are that I'd have to wait until at least december to see any legion specific stuff, and they also have two of the lamer primarchs in terms of actual combat ability from what i've read. won't be taking the primarchs in every game though so it wouldn't be the biggest deal plus they will probably have awesome rules.

It sounds like Alpha Legion are what you should be doing. Their fluff and their colour scheme are the two most important things when it comes to Heresy Legions (IMO), because you're generally going to be spending more money & time on a 30k army, so it should be one you're proud of and - if you're into fluff - that you are genuinely interested in.

Alpharius & Omegon won't be near the strongest Primarchs, but they're still Primarchs and knowing the Alpha Legion there will be some special rule that lets them blend into any squad you want (or something like that, seeing as that's kind of the funny thing about the Alpha Legion). Their rules will most likely be really unique and even if you have to wait till December or later, you can still collect and paint basic marines/tanks and apply transfers/shoulder pads at a later date.


In my opinion, that retcon in the Horus Heresy novels sucks donkey rooster.

I prefer the Alpha Legion as beign "In-it-for-Chaos!" due to their inferiority complex. Not this "One for the team, bro!" take on things.

-T10

I totally agree with this. It made much more sense to be in the older fluff, where the Alpha Legion sided with Horus because he was the first to encounter Alpharius, who spent more time with him and felt he had more to prove etc etc. The whole "super mysterious" fluff is good, but adding in immortals and prophecies and saying that they sided with Horus for the Emperor really ruined it for me.

mostlyharmless
02-07-2013, 18:43
There are two questions I always ask myself when considering which army/legion/whatever:
Do I want to paint at least 100 guys+tanks with this paint scheme?
Could I see myself happily commanding such a force?

Pick the legion that best fits to these two questions.

Though, if you go Alpha Legion, I'll have to have a predisposition to mistrust and/or outright dislike your force. Why? Cause, I rock the Raven Guard. I like their style, like their look, and I know the guy who wrote the original backstory for them. I'll likely be doing a post Deliverance Lost force, the mobile harrying forces that the Raven Guard are best at, with lots of MK VI, officers in earlier armour, preferably MK IV.

serge
02-07-2013, 20:53
I have to disagree slightly. While of course each legion has different unique units, in 40k the traitor factions are so far gone from their state at the start (or close to) the heresy that the experience/ character is entirely different. a

In particular, any two existing space marines codices will differ more than any of the four exiting legions. The legions basically differ by primarchs (big difference), a pair of second tier characters (one loyalist, one traitor) and one unit (until now a small difference but it might become big).

Given that the legion is as much a collectors army as a gamers army, I would go for fluff and looks more than, say, competitiveness.

Iron Hands or Iron Warriors are a tough choice. I would go for the Warriors but after the book is released. I mean deranged fortification builders are cool.

Telemachus
02-07-2013, 21:07
I know you're looking more at the legions that interest you, but I think with the way things are shaping up in the HH novels, that the Raven Guard would be a great HH army. There's already a load of stuff on FW that you can use to build them with, plus, with Corax's gene experiments being messed about with, there's the option to build mutant ninja space marines.

Other than that? I'd opt for either the Thousand Sons or Alpha Legion.

Nazrax
03-07-2013, 02:57
All Thousand Sons all the time!

For me 1k Sons have everything I love about the setting: the hubris, the best of intentions, betrayal, sacrifice - paradise lost.
They seem to best represent the grimdark even through good deeds and good intentions. It is all ashes and twisted in the end.
I like the attempted taming of the warp and the manipulation by Tzeentch.

Most of all the Thousand Sons represent: " The Road to Hell is Paved With Good Intentions." to me. Always liked that saying and find it to be bizarrely true.