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Aspect78
04-07-2013, 09:45
So during the heresy the Alpha legion was trying to propel horus to victory so that he would slaughter the rest of humanity and thus destroy chaos. They believed this is the choice the emperor himself would have made.

Fast forward to the end of the heresy and the outcome which they sought to prevent occurred.

So my question is, what the **** are they doing now?

I understand they can't just waltz back into the ranks of the astartes, but their fluff seems to indicate they're still trying to achieve a victory for chaos. As far as I know this wouldn't exactly destroy chaos in the sense that they were purportedly trying to achieve, so it begs the question of whether they are in chaos for the chaos/ personal glory now even though their fluff seems to indicate otherwise.

Anima
04-07-2013, 11:45
I'm pretty sure they went full Chaos now a la Voldorius, Arkos, Sindri, etc.
Bear in mind that most of the Legion probably didn't know about the Cabal or their plan, an Alpha Legionnaire in Deliverance Lost for example had no idea why the Alpha Legion had decided to side with Horus and whenever Alpharius went to meet with the Cabal representative it was in isolation. They could also never have been intending to follow the plans of a bunch of aliens anyway or simply have grown to no longer care over thousands of years.

blackcherry
04-07-2013, 11:51
So during the heresy the Alpha legion was trying to propel horus to victory so that he would slaughter the rest of humanity and thus destroy chaos. They believed this is the choice the emperor himself would have made.

Fast forward to the end of the heresy and the outcome which they sought to prevent occurred.

So my question is, what the **** are they doing now?

I understand they can't just waltz back into the ranks of the astartes, but their fluff seems to indicate they're still trying to achieve a victory for chaos. As far as I know this wouldn't exactly destroy chaos in the sense that they were purportedly trying to achieve, so it begs the question of whether they are in chaos for the chaos/ personal glory now even though their fluff seems to indicate otherwise.

Well as the HH series continues, its becoming obvious that the Alpha Legion may be working against itself, half of them trying to fulfill the Cabals wishes and the other half siding with Horus because they believe he has a point.
Add 10,000 years and no central leadership and to be honest, I would very much doubt if there are any 'loyalists' left. No doubt many of them are causing destruction for the sake of it, with many more being chaos worshipers and in it for personal glory.

Much in the same way the Night Lords and Iron Warriors take the approach of distrusting Chaos and believing they can use it as a tool, I imagine many in the Alpha Legion still think the are free agents. Which makes them willingly blind to the reality of their situation.

Polaria
04-07-2013, 11:59
I'd say that without the active guidance of the Primarchs and without an overriding purpose the Heresy gave them they slowly splintered into thousands of small groups, each fighting their own war for their own purposes. Maybe some of them were contacted by the Cabal later on while others were devoured by the chaotic plots of Tzeentch.

Idaan
04-07-2013, 14:31
So during the heresy the Alpha legion was trying to propel horus to victory so that he would slaughter the rest of humanity and thus destroy chaos. They believed this is the choice the emperor himself would have made.

Who says they did that? That was the choice the Cabal presented to them. Who says they chose one of the alternative rather than try and create a third option? They even say something to that effect earlier in the book.

All Cing Eye
05-07-2013, 12:36
Who says they did that? That was the choice the Cabal presented to them. Who says they chose one of the alternative rather than try and create a third option? They even say something to that effect earlier in the book.

I agree it seems like they are working on their own agenda. What that is has yet to be revealed in the HH series.

My guess is that their third option is to prevent either side claiming total victory, therefore maintaining the status quo of humanity and chaos both existing.

Because of this and the decentralized nature of the Alpha Legion it doesn't really matter if some of it's members/cells embrace chaos fully while some do not they still achieve the same goal of maintaining the status quo.

Felwether
05-07-2013, 15:58
I agree it seems like they are working on their own agenda. What that is has yet to be revealed in the HH series.

My guess is that their third option is to prevent either side claiming total victory, therefore maintaining the status quo of humanity and chaos both existing.

Because of this and the decentralized nature of the Alpha Legion it doesn't really matter if some of it's members/cells embrace chaos fully while some do not they still achieve the same goal of maintaining the status quo.

I've always found that to be such an extremely cool notion.

Judging by the current state of the galaxy it would appear they've even succeeded to a certain degree.

Telemachus
05-07-2013, 16:44
Personally, I think the way the books are going, it looks like they're trying to follow both of the Cabal's possible futures at once, and hoping that a third option, as mentioned above, comes to fruition. That would be the one the Cabal doesn't show Alpharius and Omegon in Legion, where humanity beats Chaos and survives into the bargain.

As to what they're up to 10,000 years later, it could be that they're bitterly opposed to the Imperium and what it's turned into, simply because it is nothing like the future that the Emperor envisioned for mankind during the Great Crusade.

Spider-pope
05-07-2013, 16:52
Personally, I think the way the books are going, it looks like they're trying to follow both of the Cabal's possible futures at once, and hoping that a third option, as mentioned above, comes to fruition. That would be the one the Cabal doesn't show Alpharius and Omegon in Legion, where humanity beats Chaos and survives into the bargain.


Sound's like Kain's plan from the Legacy of Kain game series: Keep things going and hope for a chance to change things, to flip the coin and instead of heads or tails, getting it to land on its edge.



As to what they're up to 10,000 years later, it could be that they're bitterly opposed to the Imperium and what it's turned into, simply because it is nothing like the future that the Emperor envisioned for mankind during the Great Crusade.

Makes sense to me. The Imperium of the 41st millennium is almost the antithesis of the Emperor's plans for humanity.

hummus
05-07-2013, 22:25
But the alpha legion thought that the emporers plan was flawed and naive

Hawkkf
05-07-2013, 22:26
I have always figured that once the heresy ended and alpharius was killed/ assumed dead, that the legion split into its cells and continued exactly as they were last ordered.

The problem comes from the secretive nature of the legion. Each cell was only told what they needed to know and not the whole truth. Some probably think they are secret loyalists and strive to undermine chaos. Some probably turned full chaos and look to end the imperium. Most however seem to be completely caught up with being quadruple agents and are just content messing with everyone until thier primarch tells them otherwise, which will never happen.

Son of Sanguinius
06-07-2013, 00:15
My guess is that the Alpha Legion basically took the same route as the Night Lords. Some fell to the worship of Chaos, some stayed devoted to the creeds laid down by the Primarch(s), some went off and became independent warlords, and some are off on some secret mission that they think will affect the galaxy as a whole. I know this is highly debatable, but it's been strongly hinted/suggested/saidinquestionablefashion that the Primarchs of both legions were killed off. If that is the case, or even if it is only an illusion, large portions of the legions now have no standing authority to respect, so they will go find or become one.

Telemachus
06-07-2013, 07:27
I think the main thing to consider when it comes to Alpharius/Omegon is that although Guilliman is said to killed Alpharius at Eskrador, the Ultramarines have their doubts, and there is no mention of what happened to Omegon.

Now, given this bit of fluff is older than the book Legion, then that's no great surprise. But it leaves the option open for one of the twins to still be in control of the Legion. This may change as the HH books progress, but at the moment it's not an unreasonable assumption to make. So the shenanigans they're up to 10,000 years later may still be being guided by a Primarch.

I think that there are large elements of the Legion (pure speculation on my part) that are completely loyal to the Emperor while being opposed to the Imperium, and while they may not have totally agreed with his plan or vision, they were trying to play the Cabal at their own game.

After all, in Deliverance Lost, the Cabal emissary is pretty peeved at Alpharius when he reveals that he's going to deviate from the Cabal's plan.

hummus
06-07-2013, 08:49
My guess is that the Alpha Legion basically took the same route as the Night Lords. Some fell to the worship of Chaos, some stayed devoted to the creeds laid down by the Primarch(s), some went off and became independent warlords, and some are off on some secret mission that they think will affect the galaxy as a whole. I know this is highly debatable, but it's been strongly hinted/suggested/saidinquestionablefashion that the Primarchs of both legions were killed off. If that is the case, or even if it is only an illusion, large portions of the legions now have no standing authority to respect, so they will go find or become one.
It wouldn't surprise me if some of the legionaires are still masquerading as Alpharius because they have been instructed to.

kamedake88
06-07-2013, 09:50
we are getting blibs and blurbs about (spoilers) how Alpahrius and Omegon might not be quite so in step with each other as was first presented in Legion. This as of now is a small crack but we all know the smallest cracks eventually lead to a burst dam especially in the 40k verse.

I have this theory about the actual fate of the Alpha Legion and it's primarchs. Tin foil hat time. I believe we will see a continuing growth in the rift between the twin primarchs that will spill over into an intra legion conflict with an Alpha legion twist. This basically means we will see one of the primarchs trying to kill off his twin in the most subtle and Alpha way. I'm pretty sure Alpharius will lay a trap for Omegon and have Guilliman do his dirty work for him. With the we also see Alpharius happily march his legion into the worship of the dark gods

In my mind this wraps up the speculation if Alpharius is dead or not but with a confirmed primarch kill for ol'e Blue Boy.

angelismortis
06-07-2013, 13:11
we are getting blibs and blurbs about (spoilers) how Alpahrius and Omegon might not be quite so in step with each other as was first presented in Legion. This as of now is a small crack but we all know the smallest cracks eventually lead to a burst dam especially in the 40k verse.

I have this theory about the actual fate of the Alpha Legion and it's primarchs. Tin foil hat time. I believe we will see a continuing growth in the rift between the twin primarchs that will spill over into an intra legion conflict with an Alpha legion twist. This basically means we will see one of the primarchs trying to kill off his twin in the most subtle and Alpha way. I'm pretty sure Alpharius will lay a trap for Omegon and have Guilliman do his dirty work for him. With the we also see Alpharius happily march his legion into the worship of the dark gods

In my mind this wraps up the speculation if Alpharius is dead or not but with a confirmed primarch kill for ol'e Blue Boy.

There is a story in The Primarchs where O actively works against A, so the series seems to be in sync with your theory.

Saunders
06-07-2013, 15:38
Contemporary Alpha Legion has been waging their guerilla war on the Imperium for so long that it feels they no longer have an overarching objective. They wage war because it's what they know. They're actually quite good at spreading chaos, but it's a bit of a futile gesture :3

kamedake88
06-07-2013, 19:11
Still haven't read the anthology but I knew of the story since I read a review earlier this year. Honestly though I saw it coming from a mile away after reading legion. I just hope they stick with it.

DoomedToRepeatIt
08-07-2013, 03:29
If you ask me, the Ultramarines weren't at Eskrador. That was Alpharius' Legionnaires and Omegon's Legionnaires fighting each other; which was which (and which of the brothers killed the other) is up for debate, of course.

Other than that, I've always pictured the various companies and strike forces and cells carrying on the Long War, with orders and information percolating through dead drops and irregular contact between the cells and their commanders. However, there is so little information on the subject -- reliable or otherwise -- that anything any of us say on the matter is going to be pure conjecture.

jareddm3
08-07-2013, 03:54
If you ask me, the Ultramarines weren't at Eskrador. That was Alpharius' Legionnaires and Omegon's Legionnaires fighting each other; which was which (and which of the brothers killed the other) is up for debate, of course.

Other than that, I've always pictured the various companies and strike forces and cells carrying on the Long War, with orders and information percolating through dead drops and irregular contact between the cells and their commanders. However, there is so little information on the subject -- reliable or otherwise -- that anything any of us say on the matter is going to be pure conjecture.

Completely agree. Though to make things a little more interesting, I'd make whichever one of the twins sided with chaos being the ones posing as Ultramarines, and the other, non-tainted brother being caught out in Alpha Legion colors. It's good to win a battle. It's better to win a battle and make your opponent's allies think he won.

Son of Sanguinius
08-07-2013, 04:07
I really hope that's not the case. It wavers dangerously close to an excuse to spare the Ultramarines one of their exceedingly few defeats.

infamousme
08-07-2013, 04:12
Man the alpha legion is interesting.

Majorbookworm
08-07-2013, 06:54
Out of interest, how are any of them still alive? I know Marines are long-lived, but without either the Mechanicus creating new ones (i think they handle that), or the warp screwing with time and keeping them alive, how can any of the Alpha Legion have survived for ten-thousand years,let alone with all the fighting they've been doing in that time?

DoomedToRepeatIt
08-07-2013, 13:14
They recruit and generate new Space Marines. Most of the Legion has never been to the Eye of Terror (the cell responsible for Ghorstangrad being one exception, apparently. . . ) so the extent of things like mutation and possession should be far lower across the Legion than it was for, say, the Word Bearers or Black Legion. This means that their gene-seed stocks should remain fairly free of taint, and thus they have the ability to create new Marines. Even if it wasn't, I'm sure they could find a way to sneak into some unassuming Chapter's fortress monastery and steal some.

jareddm3
08-07-2013, 17:10
I imagine they wouldn't even need to steal the geneseed in some cases. If they can brainwash the initiates before the chapter can, the loyalist chapter will do all the implating and training for them. Then, years later, all it takes is a single key phrase and half the chapter turns on their brothers.

Luxem
08-07-2013, 23:41
That's the one thing you have to love about the Alpha Legion, they still remain/apparently recruit all in their own approach. It would be good too see a take on them by like the likes of the authour who did the Night Lords Soul Hunter series.

On this point, besides Legion and a few other fluff pieces (I also think they'll be in the new warhammer fan animated movie, fyi) do you think we could be seeing more on the Alpha Legion within the year or so?

jareddm3
09-07-2013, 01:14
There was the short story about the fall of the Crimson Consuls. i don't remember the name of it but it showed the Alpha Legion at their best.

Son of Morkai
09-07-2013, 01:49
I'm getting this horrible idea that when someone finally pulls of Cegorach's mask, it'll be Alpharius. When someone pulls a Scooby-Do on the Trickster, it'll be Alpharius. When the Emperor's face is finally revealed, it'll be Alpharius. And then Tzeentch will steeple his fingers, pull off the prosthetics, and whisper "Just as planned."

Telemachus
09-07-2013, 15:26
I imagine they wouldn't even need to steal the geneseed in some cases. If they can brainwash the initiates before the chapter can, the loyalist chapter will do all the implating and training for them. Then, years later, all it takes is a single key phrase and half the chapter turns on their brothers.

The old 4th/5th edition Chaos Space Marines codex has this scenario in it. The Alpha Legion spent more than a 'dozen generations' infiltrating the Emperor's Sword's homeworld and corrupting the gangs etc that they recruited from. Some of the gang members were recruited into the Space Marines, and after nearly 300 years the Alpha Legion attacked.

When they did they triggered the recruits they had brainwashed and they turned on their fellow Space Marines. It goes onto to say that some of the factions joined the Alpha Legion directly.