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View Full Version : Was the Wraithknight orginally supposed to be an Apocalypse unit?



Deff Mekz
06-07-2013, 10:28
The recently released Eldar Wraithknight from GW stands at around 9" tall, or in other words, the same size as the Ork Stompa. Now this got me thinking, was the Wraithknight orginally supposed to be an Apocalypse unit? I believe so.

The Wraithknight stands around 2.5" taller than the new Lord of Skulls (6.5" tall) and 3" less than the Forge World Eldar Revenant Titan (12") this would put it at the perfect size to a smaller Eldar Titan. (Like a Knight Class Titan.) This raises the question to me why it has a fairly weak weaponary in comparrision to some of the units of a similar size to itself.

One idea I had as to why this has taken place was the Chapterhouse lawsuit. As I'm sure alot of you now know GW does not release models without rules in their relevant Codexes/Rulebooks due to third party companies exploiting the chance to make models for units without a GW kit. This also coincides with the new GW policy of an Army Book/Expansion per month, which means we are no longer seeing wave releases for the time being. So I believe that the Wraithknight was orginally going to be released as an Apocalypse unit with Apocalypse or along side a later apocalypse wave. (After 3 SH kits is abit much for 1 month, but we might of seen the SH's released in a different order.) I think if we see another army with a Apocalypse sized unit shoehorned into their codex, this will only further support this idea.

Now I know alot of people are going to argue it was planned due to the Iyanden supplement, well who's to say it wasn't going to be released anyway? It might of been released alongside the Wraithknight instead rather than the codex. Condsidering the content of the supplement it wouldn't of been a big change to make.

MajorWesJanson
06-07-2013, 10:38
If the Wraithknight was released as an Apoc unit, say a superheavy walker, it would be hit from both sides. On one side it would be a smaller, weaker, less elegant looking Revenant Titan. On the other, it would be Apoc Only, cutting sales by a lot if you can't use it in normal games.

Chem-Dog
06-07-2013, 11:50
The Wraithknight stands around 2.5" taller than the new Lord of Skulls (6.5" tall) and 3" less than the Forge World Eldar Revenant Titan (12") this would put it at the perfect size to a smaller Eldar Titan. (Like a Knight Class Titan.) This raises the question to me why it has a fairly weak weaponary in comparrision to some of the units of a similar size to itself.


Some models are taller than others, some models are wider than others. The Eldar are renowned for their tall and rather spindly constructs. Compare the Wraithknight with anything that can genuinely claim to be a Stomper's equivalent and they will equally out-gun the Wraithknight. How many points is a Wraithknight? The Stompers rock in at about 600+ points.

El_Machinae
07-07-2013, 03:03
The Wraithknight easily looks like it could've been made worth 600+ points

MajorWesJanson
07-07-2013, 04:23
The Wraithknight easily looks like it could've been made worth 600+ points

The Baneblade is not even 600+ points. Warhounds are only 750 (but I expect that to go up).

Karhedron
07-07-2013, 07:43
The Wraithknight easily looks like it could've been made worth 600+ points

Yes, those enormous D-cannnons are just heavy 1. Giving them blast and allowing them to be fired in addition to shoulder weaponry could easily have made the model a lot more pricey.

Poseidal
07-07-2013, 09:17
I think so. There was a rumoured Eldar superheavy years ago, around the Ork Stompa time but I think it was delayed until now.

If you look at the scale of the weapons to the performance in game, it looks like they were toned down to fit in standard 40k. Two Heavy Wraithcannon look like they would either be Strength D or large/small blast distort weapons. The Suncannon also looks meaner than what it can do (compare with the Leman Russ Executioner in size of weapon).

Darnok
07-07-2013, 10:55
I think so. There was a rumoured Eldar superheavy years ago, around the Ork Stompa time but I think it was delayed until now.

Models aren't "delayed" for years. Contrary to popular belief, GW sticks to its own schedule pretty well. If something is rumoured and doesn't show up, then it usually was not there to begin with.

That said: I don't think the Wraithknight was or is supposed to be any closer to Apoc than any other of the bigger kits released over the last few years. I think it is more due to what you could call the "centrepiece strategy", meaning: GW wants to give most armies - in the long run propably every one of them - at least one big centrepiece model. You can easily see it with WHF, and I think the same approach is made for 40K.

The Wraithknight is big, but not massive. Its look is just what you would expect from an "impressive" Eldar model. The other option would have been a heavier antigrav tank, but I believe GW wanted to let that field for FW. The Wraithknight also stresses the "advanced tech" aspect of the Eldar better than just another tank.

TL;DR: no, it was not.

Poseidal
07-07-2013, 11:03
Delayed was maybe the wrong word. Probably 'In the works'. I mean, around that time the largest non-apoc unit was a Land Raider and there wasn't a large monster or walker bigger than the Wraithlord or Dreadnaught.

Still Standing
07-07-2013, 11:41
Models are delayed or shelved. Look at the Eldar Jetbikes we saw years ago, for example.

sprugly
07-07-2013, 16:28
Also the current plastic daemon prince was spotted in (I believe) the old apocalypse book over a year before it was released.

Sprugly

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Radium
07-07-2013, 18:51
Models are delayed or shelved. Look at the Eldar Jetbikes we saw years ago, for example.

Those were prototypes by Jes Goodwin, not necessarily models made for or ready for production. I wish they would be released though, because I've been holding off buying new jetbikes since I saw those pictures.

Mauler
08-07-2013, 11:19
Models aren't "delayed" for years. Contrary to popular belief, GW sticks to its own schedule pretty well. If something is rumoured and doesn't show up, then it usually was not there to begin with.

That said: I don't think the Wraithknight was or is supposed to be any closer to Apoc than any other of the bigger kits released over the last few years. I think it is more due to what you could call the "centrepiece strategy", meaning: GW wants to give most armies - in the long run propably every one of them - at least one big centrepiece model. You can easily see it with WHF, and I think the same approach is made for 40K.

The Wraithknight is big, but not massive. Its look is just what you would expect from an "impressive" Eldar model. The other option would have been a heavier antigrav tank, but I believe GW wanted to let that field for FW. The Wraithknight also stresses the "advanced tech" aspect of the Eldar better than just another tank.

TL;DR: no, it was not.

This. Apoc units are selected, like most military classifications, due to their mass, not height. "Super-tall walker" isn't a class. ;) The Wraithknight (and it is an old Epic Knight-class unit - Knights are not Titans) may have the height but it doesn't have the mass, armour or weaponry to be a full out-and-out Apoc unit.

El_Machinae
08-07-2013, 12:55
Surely Apoc units are selected by their points as compared to the normal table-top version? Change a few of its rules, and the WK could easily be Apoc. It certainly looks like it could have more smokin' stats.

Haravikk
08-07-2013, 13:24
If the Wraithknight was released as an Apoc unit, say a superheavy walker, it would be hit from both sides. On one side it would be a smaller, weaker, less elegant looking Revenant Titan. On the other, it would be Apoc Only, cutting sales by a lot if you can't use it in normal games.
But then that's true of all super-heavies, and the fact that Apocalypse has been made so inaccessible as an expansion by GW.


Personally I do think that the Wraithknight doesn't really fit regular 40k; I've warmed to the model itself a bit, but in gameplay terms it really is just a scale model, it costs twice as much as a Wraithlord, and you'll get about that much in terms of mileage out of it so it's not like it adds something truly unique to the lineup (unless you want to pay an extra 30 to have it as your Warlord). So yeah, I do think it fits Apocalypse better than anything else.

What I would have rather seen is for super-heavies to be in the vanilla rules (a lot of the framework is already there thanks to Hull Points) but be grouped with Flyers in a special category that limits how many you can take in regular games. Possibly preventing you from taking a Fortification. This way the models would see more use in non-Apocalypse games, and we'd have super heavy rules for adapting to the bigger models for which Monstrous Creature is woefully inadequate. Land Raiders as mini super-heavies might actually have allowed their cost to be justified for one thing!

This way all Apocalypse would be needed for would be adding the idea of the big formations, huge games and all the various powerful new items and abilities.


Would have been win-win. Instead we get a huge model that, although nice, is just as susceptible to Fleshbane and Poison as infantry; I mean, I don't think Monstrous Creature rules suit the Wraithlord of Nemesis Dreadknight either, at the very least the 40k rules should have had a universal rule that allows for Monstrous Creatures that protects against things like Poison and Fleshbane! It just slots very awkwardly into the game, and it's a shame.

Saunders
08-07-2013, 17:10
Regarding the fabled Eldar super-heavy and the Wraithknight, the commentary from June WD and the WK concept art suggests that the Wraithknight was actually a fairly recent work. I'm more liable to believe that the rumored Eldar super-heavy never existed.

Spiney Norman
08-07-2013, 17:42
Models are delayed or shelved. Look at the Eldar Jetbikes we saw years ago, for example.

I often wonder if we'll ever actually see that prototype as a CWE model, part of me wonders if it wasn't just reworked into the DE reaver Jetbikes (which it bears a striking resemblance to) and dropped as an idea for CWE. Aside from anything else it would be really difficult to make shining spear using that design of bike because trying to hold a couched lance when you are almost horizontal of your bike is always going to look awkward.

Vaktathi
08-07-2013, 18:07
Before the current Tyranid codex pulled in the Trygon and created the Tervigon and the like, I'd have said yes. The Wraithknight already as tough or tougher than many of the original Gargantuan Creatures, but 40k has introduced lots of things that previously would have generally been considered "apoc" units since then.

boyd
09-07-2013, 02:50
Models aren't "delayed" for years. Contrary to popular belief, GW sticks to its own schedule pretty well. If something is rumoured and doesn't show up, then it usually was not there to begin with.

That said: I don't think the Wraithknight was or is supposed to be any closer to Apoc than any other of the bigger kits released over the last few years. I think it is more due to what you could call the "centrepiece strategy", meaning: GW wants to give most armies - in the long run propably every one of them - at least one big centrepiece model. You can easily see it with WHF, and I think the same approach is made for 40K.

The Wraithknight is big, but not massive. Its look is just what you would expect from an "impressive" Eldar model. The other option would have been a heavier antigrav tank, but I believe GW wanted to let that field for FW. The Wraithknight also stresses the "advanced tech" aspect of the Eldar better than just another tank.

TL;DR: no, it was not.

No way. That plastic thunder hawk has just been delayed for the last 15 years. Its been a rumor since this place went by portent.net. We all know GW doesn't actually have a schedule.